Players characters evading direct questions

[Talakeal]

I will respond with a longer post tomorrow, but real quick:

And, as it turned out (and several of us posters predicted), the reason is because the players themselves misunderstood the information you had provided earlier, which you expected them to pass on in the scene. That was what was missing, and without it, they could not succeed.

Wait, what? When did this happen?!?!?

AFAICT they didn't misunderstand anything. They told me that they intentionally chose not to tell the Changelings about the attack on Muir Woods because they didn't think it was relevant.

That's less a misunderstanding than it is a lapse in judgement / a gambit that didn't pay off.

What am I missing here? What misunderstanding are you referring to?


The only "misunderstanding" that I am aware of is that they thought Cairn and Caer where the same word... but that does precisely nothing to explain why they wouldn't spill the beans about the attack, if anything it's the complete opposite!

If whatever the PCs try will work, that's a pure sandbox. As unappealing as a railroad in my view, but in any event that's pretty clearly not the case here.

If there is one unambiguously best path for the PCs to take in every situation...

that's a railroad. That's the definition of a railroad. This is the "nothing" that makes people "presuppose" a railroad: the apparent lack of understanding that there's any other way to run a game. Concealing from the PCs and players where the tracks are doesn't make it not a railroad. You now seem to be saying that you're offended that people are accusing you of railroading when you reduced the ambient light to a point where no one could possibly see the tracks so your players would stop saying such mean things, not realizing that "there are actual meaningful choices that aren't 'the right one' or 'one of the wrong ones'" is even a thing.

I think the underlying assumption you have here is that there is only one correct answer and every answer is wrong, and further than the GM will shoot down any answers that aren't the correct answer.

This isn't what I am saying.

I am saying that if the GM gives the players "an" answer, and the players are stuck (or just lazy) that is the answer they are going with. To me, that is depriving them of agency.

Just because I believe that most every scenario has a "best" answer, does not mean that other answers are invalid or that I am going to shoot them down as a GM.


In Gbaji's summary which I was responding to, he repeatedly added in "it was the only way" to the summary events in my game, which was not correct. It was A way, I never said it was the only way, and there were plenty of other routes, even if I considered some of them suboptimal for one reason or another.

Nothing. But you are the one who created a thread about what I can only assume is "something that went wrong" in your game. So clearly, the fact that the players were unable to figure out what to tell the Seelie was a problem.

It's a problem in that my players get frustrated if they lose and self-conscious if you point out their mistakes. Its no more "going wrong" than a monster taking out a PC with a lucky critical hit or a player flubbing a critical skill check.

This is hardly one of my gaming horror stories.

I am mostly just curious about why players sometimes won't answer an NPC's direct question. This is something I have seen many times in my games, but also in other games that I have been a player in, as well as APs I have listened to online. Its a weird phenomenon that I don't understand.

Sure. But you only wrote the one way to do it, right? And it looks like they tried to use other means, but they failed. So... maybe a railroad. Maybe not. Doesn't really matter. You wrote "this is a way they can do things" into your scenario. If you do that, then you need to not block that option from your players.

Not at all, no!

With the information the PCs currently had, that was, imo, by far the simplest and easiest way to get the Changelings involved, but I can think of a handfull of other methods off the top of my head that would have accomplished the same goal such as talking to the Selkie, Bribing someone, consulting an oracle, asking about the strange glade in the middle of the park, asking a changeling about the Nunnehei, asking someone knowledgeable about the changeling's history with the werewolves, they could have asked someone about fairy territories in the area and what they had an interested in defended, explaining to a few specific NPCs that their inaction would loved ones in danger, lying to the fey to get them involved, etc...

And that is just stuff they could have done at the party to bring the Seelie into opposition against the Werewolves using the resources they had on hand, a far cry from "resolving the scenario" as a whole!

I gave examples that are counter to your false assertions when you asked for proof that those assertions were false. Any counter example proves you wrong. When I gave counter examples, you then *invented false things about them* in order to still maintain your point. That is arguing in bad faith.

There's no point in talking to you, so I'm going to block you now.

Well... I guess I am blocked... so does anyone else want to point out the part of the post he is responding to where I said:

Obviously I am speaking in generalities here.

to NichG for me?