The Vivifont [base class]

[JackMage666]

its strange how this killing game desensitizes you to these things, but i consider killing to be malicious. the class in general is considered evil because they fool people into thinking they are healing them and then kill them in an extremely painful manner.

I'll quote it again, so you can see the typo.

...but is often put to malicious use, such as killing nonliving creatures.

You can't kill a nonliving creature. Unless they're undead, and then it's hardly considered malicious. Told ya, it was nitpicking.
Totally ninja'd here. He actually almost copied me word for word, too!

his soothing touch emulates the cure spells at one level later than the cleric gets them (unless i got it wrong)

True, but he also gets Ressurection and True Ressurection as low level spells (Archivists would love this), so it makes sense he'd get Cure spells too.

based off of dread necromancer. he has the same thing. take tomb-tainted soul and heal yourself at will...

Fast Healing is quite unlike the Tomb-Tainted Soul/Dread Necromancer Thing. They have to take a Standard Action to heal themselves 1 point, Fast Healing is automatic. The Dread Necromancer can't do it nearly as easily in combat. Also, it doesn't increase every other level (I could be wrong here, as I don't have the book on hand.)

if you read the example, that is exactly how it works. so you have the same exact requirements to kill a creature as dealing damage.

My mistake, I read that wrong. I'll touch back on this later.

these emulate the cure spells at a level later than a cleric gets them (if i did it right). a cleric can cast heal many times per day, so is it so bad to have a class which can do something better than a cleric as its main class feature? the vivifont doesn't even get mass heal. how does that "scream" too powerful?

The problem is not that it can do them, it's that it can do them at will. That means that, while a Cleric 20 has to give up other spells to cast Heal, he can do, let's say 24 times total in a day (but doesn't get ANY other 6th-9th level spells). The Vivifont 20 can do this in Less than 3 minutes. Doubles it in 5. And still has all it's spells per day. You do more damage than most martial classes (I know, not say all that much), and hit more often due to it being a Touch attack rather than a Melee Attack. The DC's high (higher than a spell of equivilant level), and can either heal or damage, depending on the subjects current HP. As well, each touch is considered a Wounding Attack, decreasing Con every hit, too. The free wounding itself makes this really powerful (imagine if a Fighter did 1 Con damage with every hit as well)

:(

classes get abilities which help them to kill monsters...

You already get that with the Temporary HP bit. The Con damage only makes it more powerful than it already is.

i'm not sure i agree with that... if a rogue got +10 to dex or a wizard got +10 to int i would say that's overpowered, but Con just keeps you alive, and has no game effects until you die... if that makes sense? it just seems like no real big deal to me. if you all agree i could lower it to +1 at each of those levels for a total of +5. this replaces, by the way, the damage reduction 8/bludgeoning and magic of the dread necromancer, which potentially could save him many more hit points over time.

By 20th level, you'll gain up to 100 HP, as well as +5 on Fort Saves, Concentrate Checks, several checks that increase survivability (holding breath, ect.).
Also, if you notice, you have to give up things to gein those ability increases. A Dragon Devotee loses spellcasting progression. A War Hulk loses BAB and the ability to use ranks in any mental skills. The Con increase here comes at no cost.

+4 to strength and dex is too powerful?? that's like nothing, it's mostly just flavor. this guy has 1/2 BaB, he's not going to be using either of those really. also see dragon disciple and similar classes.

That's +2 Attack and Damage, +2 AC, +2 to alot of skill checks, +2 to break down doors, +2 initiative, and so on. Also, +2 to hit with your already potent touch attack.

i guess you're referring to CoD being overpowered. but i'm modelling this after the dread necromancer who gets a familiar which is more powerful than the wizard's. without this feature the vivifont has nothing he can do against constructs and maybe some other stuff. maybe i should just make it like a regular animal companion?

The stories of a Familiar being useful in battle are much fewer than the Animal Companion taking over the Fighter's role. You're giving an animal companion with greater combat abilities than a martial character of your ECL.
Also, familiars make you lose EXP if it dies. Animal Companions make you pray for 24 hours.
Animal Companions already are far better than Familiars.
Maybe it's alright if this guy has a weakness, though. I mean, Wizards are useless in an Antimagic Zone. Cleric can't do anything without a Holy Symbol. Rogues can't sneak attack a number of enemies. Beguilers have similar issues as the Vivifont with constructs and undead. Weaknesses sometimes help balance a class.

dread necromancer gets it. if he has undead allies it does the same thing. so there can not possibly be any issue here at all.

Undead allies are far rarer than living allies. Even in an Evil party, chances are they're still alive. Most undead allies are mindless, and I fear them far less than the Barbarian friend with Six Positive Levels. There's a bid difference between a class feature most friendly with Undead, and a class feature most friendly with practically every other monster type.

once again, modelled after dread necro. but i have no idea what the LA should be since this type of thing has never been done before.

Dread Necros get a number of things that a plain Lich doesn't. Rebuke Undead, 9th level spells, don't have to pay for philactery, ect.. The Vivifont gets up to 6th level spells, and the animal companion, but that's it (I may be wrong, but that's about all I see).

overreacting a liiiitle bit

Possibly, but unlikely.

I keep imagining a 20th level Vivifont with leadership, and a Co-hort with a high Fort save and the Steadfast Determination feat. They basically go around and slaughter everything, the co-hort a ni-invincible tank because he hardly ever would fail a fort save, and the Vivifont always keeps him above Temporary HP limit just barely. Not to mention, he as the Soulmeld that relieves 1 point of ability damage. If he dies, or is killed in some way (difficult feat at that), the Vivifont just casts True Ressurection later. Back to pointless slaughter!