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Thread: Homebrew Strategy Game

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Sep 2007

    Default Re: Homebrew Strategy Game

    Quote Originally Posted by merlin View Post
    For one thing, mongols didn't use longbows they used composite shortbows, for another, part of their conquering of europe was due to tactical genius which this game should be trying to encourage.
    Disagreed.

    I am pretty sure they got to conquer Europe from being untouchable (range and speed).

    Their 'tactics' were really, really simple. "Run into range, turn, open fire." The end.

    Horse archers were very weak defensively, not being able to wear armour, move quickly and fire all at the same time due to them being on a horse.
    They still wore leather armour type stuff, if I recall correctly. And I think you're underestimating what training can do - get a well trained horse, and you can set it to gallop in a straight line without user input. Practice, and you can use a stirrup to hold onto a horse at full gallop while you use your hands for something else. Like, say, pull a bow.

    They could also only fire when they were sideways on to their foe, which opens them up as the broader side of the horse is therefore shown.
    But they outranged and outran everything. It wasn't a problem.

    Put them up against a normal archer, or at least a longbowmen, and they would lose.
    Absolutely wrong.

    An English longbow had a pull of about 70-80 pounds. According to George Vernadsky, Mongolian composite shortbows averaged at 166 pounds on the pull. That's more than double the force. English longbowmen could hit targets at 200 yards if they weren't moving (just large volleys would hose advancing infantry though). Mongolian archers also couldn't hit individuals, but that didn't matter as they were on HORSEBACK and had a range of 350 yards. There are tales of particularly skilled mongolian archers being able to hit well beyond that range. One in particular was found at a site, supposedly a transcript from a 1226, from a gathering Genghis Khan was having or the like (I'm not familiar enough with Mongolian history to know for sure if it was him). I believe it translated to something like "Chinggis Khan was holding a meeting of Mongolian dignitaries, after his conquest of [East Turkey? I think], Esungge shot a target at ~300 alds (500ish m?)." There are... opinions that you can glean from the translators from their books and papers that such feats were not uncommon. That's half a kilometer! HALF A KILOMETER!

    Stop and think.
    On foot, 200 yard range.
    vs
    On horseback, 350 yard range.


    Now, sure, the game stats in this don't reflect that reality, but since there's no 'feudal' equivalent for them all I can think of is how gamebreaking those horse archers are going to be. It's like introducing machine gun nests for capitol cities. There was no equivalent and something's not right. The casualties are going to be disproportionate no matter how much you nerf it from reality.

    They were also slower than light cavalry, at least when firing.
    So you're being rushed? Ok, start the regular retreat. Oops, you got blind sided by the other group of horse archers over there with bows. Now that you're reeling and trying to figure out what to do, we'll open fire too.
    END.



    Note!(I haven't really looked at the stats he's given MB's but that's what they were like in real life).
    Move as fast as light cavalry, range of 3 hexes on the shot. Damage is inconsequential at this point as you already have god-mode when used with strategy: you can hit almost any target you want without fear of retribution.

    I really don't agree with your 'how they were in real life' deal though. Heck, there were people still using the bow as part of their way of life in the 20th century in some parts of the world.

    EDIT:: "While Chinggis Khan was holding an assembly of Mongolian dignitaries, after his conquest of Sartaul (East Turkestan), Esungge (the son of Chinggis Khan's brother) shot a target at 335 alds (536 m)." Quick google search turned that up.
    Last edited by TSED; 2009-04-12 at 06:27 AM.