Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
As opposed to what? There's never been anything but oligarchy. The closest to a new system is the Red Dynasty, and even that had some serious problems. As for the insanity, well, that wasn't exactly part of the design, was it?
Well, the insanity part was more the point of that. And that was the point. The design wasn't an awful one, but it wasn't self sustaining. The Incarnae just walked from their responsibilities of sitting at the head, and the system broke down.

Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
The problem is that there was no reason for the Maidens to give such an order. The Solars were out of control, and things were only going to get worse if someone didn't do something. The Unconquered Sun turned away from the Solars, suppressing his virtue, because he couldn't really do anything else. Yeah, the Usurption wasn't the best solution, but given their constraints(especially the Great Curse, from what I remember it hit the Incarnae as well as the exalts), it was the best solution they had.
I don't disagree that had the Maidens, Luna, and the UCS been paying attention, they would have agreed with the Siddies. However, if they had been paying attention, they could have done something about the problem. The Great Curse isn't completely impossible to deal with. The Infernals, at least, had it removed from them. The Incarnae should know how to do that as well, as they are at least as powerful as the Yozi. Barring that, they could have told the Solar's about it, who could have done something about it, even if was impossible. If the Solars can kill the Primordials, they can kill the Curse they put on them. With their fists. Doing impossible things is their schtick, after all.

Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
Yeah, the Shogunate wasn't that bad for Humans. But they're not the ones who had a problem with the order of things, nor did they start screwing up the celestial bureaucracy. The Gods? Were.
That was more just a side point. I was agreeing with you that the Dragonblooded taking over Creation probably wasn't such a bad thing. Things didn't really start sucking until the pissed off Ghosts of the Solars decided to go and kill most of the Dragonblooded, along with most of the Mortal population. The Usurpation broke a lot of things, and pissed off a number of gods. The Siddies made it worse.