[3e] Adding clockwork horrors to a campaign

[Dunkelhand]

Hello,

while flipping through the MM I got stuck reading the clockwork entries again. So far no campaign I played in / mastered used clockworks. But after reading the entry I'd really like to add them to one of my upcoming adventures.

Has anybody used them before? If so: how?

My current idea is pretty clichéd: BBEG creates a couple of clockwork horrors to get rid of a couple of noble sons, because he wants to win the heart of the beautiful daughter of [random noble] himself.

An idea was that if he gets seen with some of the clockworks, he might command them to attack him, so it looks like he's just another victim - gets killed and the clockworks are on the loose. (Not sure here, but I kinda like the iadea of an already dead BBEG).

Can clockworks create more clockworks by themselves? I'd like them to build something like the clockwork equivalent of a shield guardian as final challenge for the players...

[Starscream]

I like these things, they have a unique flavor as monsters.

But be warned: The Admantine Horror is not a CR 9 monster. I have no idea what they were thinking when they came up with that. The thing can cast Disintegrate, Implosion, and Mordenkainen's Disjunction - three of the most feared spells in existence, at will.

Then again, there's only supposed to be one in existence at any given time (bit like the Tarrasque in that respect), so as a "final boss" sort of monster you might like the added danger.

Oh, and if your players are starting at low levels and you need something lower than CR 4 (the lowest any of the Horrors has) consider the Clockroaches from MM4. They start out at CR 1, and are kind of similar in style. You could just rename them "Brass Horrors" or something and use them as low level cannon fodder.

[LoneStarNorth]

I've used horrors in my ongoing campaign. Originally there was just one adamantine horror (but with the stats of a gold horror) that was built for mining, but which soon went rogue. It was defeated, but not before it had the chance to build a backup copy of itself. The party was around level 4, if I recall.

The next time it appeared, it had the stats of a platinum horror and was doing a pretty good job of conquering a nation for itself with the many minions (electrum and gold horrors) it had built. The PCs stopped them, but at great cost to both themselves and their dwarven allies. The party was 8th level at this point.

The logical progression dictates that the horrors will resurface again, this time with the adamantine horror at its full destructive potential. And after that? Who knows. Maybe I'll homebrew an adamantine horror titan and have it smash a city without the need for minions.


Clockwork horrors can build more clockwork horrors, if that's what you're asking. I suppose they could build other constructs if you wanted to go that way, but with the fluff as written, I think they'd prefer to have their own kind as the master race.

[Arbitrarity]

I had clockwork horrors as a guardian/repair system in a really, really old transportation facility. Sort of an interplanar airport, and the horrors did cleaning and maintenance, particularly of constructs. They also functioned as guards and warnings against threats entering the gateways.

[newbDM]

I had clockwork horrors as a guardian/repair system in a really, really old transportation facility. Sort of an interplanar airport, and the horrors did cleaning and maintenance, particularly of constructs. They also functioned as guards and warnings against threats entering the gateways.

The wasp/hornet ones from mechanis are the best for that. I forget which MM they were in, though.

Fun story, in the first tower I ran, right before I had to end my game, the warforged PC managed to get control of a nest of them who repaired the tower and the constructs there. So he ended up with the ability to repair himself with his own little swarm of the guys. Remember to always expect the unexpected with any group of players. That player now roams these boards to boot...

However, I did have fun knocking out the halfling rogue with them a few times due to the poision.

I used the roaches in that dungeon I believe, which were quite fun.

[Prometheus]

Again, be sure to refluff a variety of constructs to suit your purposes. For example, the only indications of a golem's humanoid shape is it's slam attacks and it's reach/size. Change both of those and you have a hard-material automated creature.

[KillianHawkeye]

If you need ideas, I highly suggest watching some old episodes of Stargate SG-1, since clockwork horrors are pretty much fantasy versions of the Replicators (a mechanical race of self-replicating insectile robots). Their first appearance is at the end of Season 3, IIRC, but they remain a grave threat throughout the rest of the show (even more powerful than the main race of evil aliens).

The key to running a faceless hive type of menace in any game is to understand that their strength is in numbers. The first time your players face one of these things, it should be a very difficult fight, and only once they've won it should they discover that there are many many more where that one came from. Eventually they will come to understand that the menace continues to reproduce whenever it has the chance. No matter how many are destroyed, they will be certain that some inevitably escaped to rebuild the swarm.

I reccomend against putting in any cheesy "kill the master bug and all the smaller ones die too" clause in the adventure, because a menace of this type just shouldn't be that easy to destroy. Also, if they have access to the proper resources, you should allow the lesser types of horrors to create more advanced versions by using the power of teamwork. This ensures that, even if the adamantine horror is destroyed, a bigger and better one can be waiting for your players the next time. And it should probably be immune or resistant to whatever killed it the last time.

Used in this way, the horrors can make a great campaign, as long as you're not afraid to continue to modify them and allow them to really learn and adapt to their failures and setbacks.

Dang, now I'm really hoping they put these guys in the next 4E Monster Manual!

[Abbott]

The way you're describing them, they sound like un-humanoid borg, basically. Me likie.

[newbDM]

If you need ideas, I highly suggest watching some old episodes of Stargate SG-1, since clockwork horrors are pretty much fantasy versions of the Replicators (a mechanical race of self-replicating insectile robots). Their first appearance is at the end of Season 3, IIRC, but they remain a grave threat throughout the rest of the show (even more powerful than the main race of evil aliens).

The key to running a faceless hive type of menace in any game is to understand that their strength is in numbers. The first time your players face one of these things, it should be a very difficult fight, and only once they've won it should they discover that there are many many more where that one came from. Eventually they will come to understand that the menace continues to reproduce whenever it has the chance. No matter how many are destroyed, they will be certain that some inevitably escaped to rebuild the swarm.

I reccomend against putting in any cheesy "kill the master bug and all the smaller ones die too" clause in the adventure, because a menace of this type just shouldn't be that easy to destroy. Also, if they have access to the proper resources, you should allow the lesser types of horrors to create more advanced versions by using the power of teamwork. This ensures that, even if the adamantine horror is destroyed, a bigger and better one can be waiting for your players the next time. And it should probably be immune or resistant to whatever killed it the last time.

Used in this way, the horrors can make a great campaign, as long as you're not afraid to continue to modify them and allow them to really learn and adapt to their failures and setbacks.

Dang, now I'm really hoping they put these guys in the next 4E Monster Manual!

I am saving this thread just for the advice in your post.

Just one question. If you take out the "destroy the control unit and they all shut off" gimmick (which I feel is quite cliche and overused by now), how would the PCs stop them? Preferably in a new and somewhat original way, which would not be so expected?

[arguskos]

I am saving this thread just for the advice in your post.

Just one question. If you take out the "destroy the control unit and they all shut off" gimmick (which I feel is quite cliche and overused by now), how would the PCs stop them? Preferably in a new and somewhat original way, which would not be so expected?

Create a new sub-race of benevolent clockwork critters (call them "clockwork helpers") and sic them on the horrors, so it becomes an underground clockwork war. Eventually, the horrors will sue for peace, or will be eradicated.

Or, you have to create a magi-mechanical virus to sweep through the Clockwork Collective, negating their ability to reproduce. You then must eradicate them all, but be wary, the adamantine horror is ready and waiting... muhahahahahahahaha

[wadledo]

What CR would y'all say the Admantine Horror is?

[Dyllan]

Now you guys have me wanting to run a campaign based on clockwork creatures who continually modify themselves to adapt to player strategies.

Do they have a true hive-mind consciousness thing going, or does at least one have to survive to send word back about how they were defeated?

And do we have a comprehensive list of what creatures would fit as clockwork - and what sourcebooks they're from?

[Zenos]

Now you guys have me wanting to run a campaign based on clockwork creatures who continually modify themselves to adapt to player strategies.

Do they have a true hive-mind consciousness thing going, or does at least one have to survive to send word back about how they were defeated?

And do we have a comprehensive list of what creatures would fit as clockwork - and what sourcebooks they're from?

Borg IN FANTASY?

[PersonMan]

Just one question. If you take out the "destroy the control unit and they all shut off" gimmick (which I feel is quite cliche and overused by now), how would the PCs stop them? Preferably in a new and somewhat original way, which would not be so expected?

I'm thinking that the PCs would either need to trick them into gathering in one area, then seal it and throw in hordes of Rust Monsters, or they could use some sort of Plot-powered magic item that would just destroy all metal or metal-based things in an area. Sure, it'd be a huge loss, but if that was really needed to destroy the Horrors, then it'd at least be memorable.

[Flickerdart]

Reading this thread immediately reminded me of the Nanobots power-build from somewhere on the Wizards boards, where thousands of Diminutive constructs or summons would give the character insane Aid Another bonuses. Toss that in there for the fun of it if you want: lots of tiny Horrors are what makes the big bad so powerful, and if you kill them off, he becomes more vulnerable.

[UserClone]

What CR would y'all say the Admantine Horror is?

Upper teens at least, given the SLAs/DCs for same.

[Magnor Criol]

Yeah, that Adamantine Horror is ridiculous at CR 9. Implosion and Morden's Disjunction are 9th level spells, which means normally they can't be accessed until level 17. Disintegrate can't be reached until 11th. And this guy is casting them at will, and supposed to be defeatable by four 9th-level guys? Hah.

[Teron]

What CR would y'all say the Admantine Horror is?

It doesn't work at any CR. It's offensive capabilities outstrip its defenses by too large a margin; depending on the party's level, it will either butcher them or go down in one round (probably still taking a PC or his magic items with it).

[Recaiden]

It really is too powerful offensively for CR 9, and too weak defensively for a CR that matches its offensive powers. It only works as part of a fight guarded by other horrors, at somewhere above CR 9 for the whole encounter.
I also had the idea of them invading from Mechanus, and the PCs need to close the gate that they came through, and then finish off the one group that is still left over.

[newbDM]

It doesn't work at any CR. It's offensive capabilities outstrip its defenses by too large a margin; depending on the party's level, it will either butcher them or go down in one round (probably still taking a PC or his magic items with it).

Well, what about fielding it with a lot of/swarm of minor clockworks around it as both protection and canon fodder? Based on what I have read in this thread, it seems to me like that is how these guys are meant to be set up for encounters.



Also, while thinking back on the replicators from Stargate SG-1 (oh, the fond memories!) I remembered the humanoid sentient ones they created as a natural "evolution". Couldn't you pull off a similar plot with the automation template (I believe that is what it was called at least), that makes any creature into a construct/robot version? Perhaps have the one who is giving into his emotions, and is the most likely to become good after exposure to a specific PC (like the male humanoid replicator Sam in SG-1 ended up betraying, and turning back to evil)? So after the PCs believe the adventure/campaign is over, and that they have defeated the "mindless evil swarms", they get a nice (and probably disturbing if done right) surprise when the replicators/clockworks unveil their latest "evolution", who are also their new bosses.

Also some good room in this for some inner conflict between the newly sentient creatures, as they discover emotions, and the greed and intoxication that comes with the nearly-limitless power they posses. Along with the one I mentioned above maybe becoming good, and perhaps a female one causing others to fight for her, and you potentially have a civil war between this new race of creatures and a split between their demigod like rulers (Hmm, this is giving me a great idea for making this conflict in my own games, and ascending these guys into a new divided pantheon at war with itself.).

I would also personally make each one of these humanoid ones of a different race the clockworks/replicators have encountered during the course of the PCs' adventure, as well as divide them evenly between male and female. I would also have them be programed to imitate certain aspects of the creatures they have encountered (to better relate and communicate with them?). So you can essentially end up with the iconic characters in new metal shiny form. You can have the grunt and more aggressive dwarf like one, the curious gnome like one always asking questions and trying to understand these "emotions within me", the more quiet but always thinking and calculating female elf one, the headstrong but optimistic human looking one, etc. (Wow, I am loving this idea more and more and more. I am going to have to run this...).

[Dunkelhand]

Wow!
Thanks a lot for the huge number of replies :)

Did any of you encounter any style problems? Did your players simply accept the clockworks, or was there some questioning?