[4E] Battlerager Vigor - Unlimited stacking?

[Hal]

Question for those of you who understand the Martial Power book:

The description of Battlerager Vigor says that the temporary hit points it grants stack with any other temporary hit points you already have. Do these stack with themselves, or only with hit points from other sources?

It doesn't specify, so I'm curious. It seems like it might be rather broken for them to do so, as getting Con bonus temp HP each round (Con and a half if you're a Dwarf) might make you terribly difficult to kill.

Anybody able to clear this up?

[Myatar_Panwar]

I'm pretty sure they don't stack with themself.

Although, it shouldn't matter too much, because if your being hit then those original temp hit points were probably lost anyway. I would be willing to rule that they do stack just for this reason (maybe you get hit for just little enough to not take them all away, reward the players a little), as long as I could be sure no one would abuse it.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

It's not all of the temp HP that the class grants that stacks, only the temp HP gained from invigorating powers. And I believe those HP do stack.

[Hal]

I'm pretty sure they don't stack with themself.

Although, it shouldn't matter too much, because if your being hit then those original temp hit points were probably lost anyway. I would be willing to rule that they do stack just for this reason (maybe you get hit for just little enough to not take them all away, reward the players a little), as long as I could be sure no one would abuse it.

Well, the balancing factor to that might be power; most of the Invigorating powers don't have much (or any) weapon damage, so you're not going to be overwhelming the opposition. But let's say you optimize, starting off with an 18 Con, and then you take a +Con race to get 20. If you're a Dwarf, you can take a feat that makes the temp HP Con and a half, which would mean you get 7 points of temp HP every time you use an invigorating power. If they stack, why not get that every round?

I guess besides the interpretation question, I'm curious if anyone finds this overpowering. It might take quite a bit for the DM to steal all 7 of those points each round, and that might mean leaving the rest of the party alone. On the other hand, it makes you a very feasible tank, and isn't that rather the point of the Fighter in 4e?

[MammonAzrael]

7 stackable temp HP is a very nice chunk, but remember that you won't be doing all that much damage, and minions can drain that pretty quickly if the DM is having problems.

And yes, I believe they stack.

[Gralamin]

Well, the balancing factor to that might be power; most of the Invigorating powers don't have much (or any) weapon damage, so you're not going to be overwhelming the opposition. But let's say you optimize, starting off with an 18 Con, and then you take a +Con race to get 20. If you're a Dwarf, you can take a feat that makes the temp HP Con and a half, which would mean you get 7 points of temp HP every time you use an invigorating power. If they stack, why not get that every round?

Putting a 20 into a non-attack stat is not optimizing in 4E.
And I believe they do stack unlimitedly.

[Ealstan]

Yes, the temp. HPs stack. They stack with themselves, and can, in circumstances, stack with other temp HPs. The temp HPs gained from an invigorating power stack with any other temp HPs the fighter has already gained.

example: Bob the fighter's friend Tim the Warlord uses one of his powers that grants an ally X temp HPs. Then bob swings on a minion and gains 7 temp HPs. Those stack with each other, leading to Bob having X+7 temp HPs. If Bob then spent an action point and hit another enemy, Bob would then be at X+7+7.

[MammonAzrael]

example: Bob the fighter's friend Tim the Warlord uses one of his powers that grants an ally X temp HPs. Then bob swings on a minion and gains 7 temp HPs. Those stack with each other, leading to Bob having X+7 temp HPs. If Bob then spent an action point and hit another enemy, Bob would then be at X+7+7.

Assuming Bob uses a different Invigorating power for the second attack, since an Invigorating power can only grant temp HP once a round.

[KKL]

Well, the balancing factor to that might be power; most of the Invigorating powers don't have much (or any) weapon damage, so you're not going to be overwhelming the opposition. But let's say you optimize, starting off with an 18 Con, and then you take a +Con race to get 20. If you're a Dwarf, you can take a feat that makes the temp HP Con and a half, which would mean you get 7 points of temp HP every time you use an invigorating power. If they stack, why not get that every round?

I guess besides the interpretation question, I'm curious if anyone finds this overpowering. It might take quite a bit for the DM to steal all 7 of those points each round, and that might mean leaving the rest of the party alone. On the other hand, it makes you a very feasible tank, and isn't that rather the point of the Fighter in 4e?

Having 20 Con makes you disturbingly tough at the cost of your Str being what, 14 at best? Enjoy never hiting anything at all.

Battleragers are tough and all, but their Reflex/Will sucks, and their AC to an extent blows. They're also notoriously weak when it comes to ranged attacks, as they don't give you temp HP to buffer.