4e SRD out tomorrow?

[xanaphia]

Back when 4e came out, I heard that the SRD would be released on Jan 1 2009. Is this true? Will it be free? I haven't read the rules yet.

It will be nice, if I am correct, to see the new rules. Will it be released like the 3.5 SRD?

If it is, I will be happy.

[Zeful]

The 4e SRD will not be released like the 3.5 SRD. No 4e material is OGL.

[Waspinator]

4E is never going to have a free set of the rules like 3.5 did. Probably at least partly because of the situation WotC is in right now, where 3.5 is proving very hard to kill.

[Talkkno]

Its already out...

[Stormgale]

Its already out...

But not in the form he assume's (if I understand the OP correctly)

[xanaphia]

I mean like the 3.5 one.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Link to 4E SRD and license.

It are not rules.

[Talya]

4E is never going to have a free set of the rules like 3.5 did. Probably at least partly because of the situation WotC is in right now, where 3.5 is proving very hard to kill.

Seems to me that if they really wanted to give 4e a shot at "killing" 3.5, they'd release MORE of it free.

[Tempest Fennac]

To be fair, one huge problem with giving things away is that it reduces the chances of people spending money on it. I think just releasing small previews is wise to be honest.

[Talya]

To be fair, one huge problem with giving things away is that it reduces the chances of people spending money on it. I think just releasing small previews is wise to be honest.

Well, here's the thing: virtually nobody who would otherwise have bought 3.5 only used the SRD. If people got into it online because someone pointed out the SRD was available, they soon discovered other people had more material they weren't aware of. In the end, they either bought or downloaded everything they could.

Now with 4e, nobody's getting that initial free exposure, so the impetus to buy is less. However, if people really want to see it, they can still download it just as easily as they could the 3.5 material. (And pirate pdf copies were available on just about every usual source before the game was even for sale--and better quality copies than 3.5 ever had since they were original printing documents rather than scanned and OCRed books.)

The SRD made 3.5 into a monster. 4e doesn't have that advantage.

[Tengu_temp]

The SRD made 3.5 into a monster. 4e doesn't have that advantage.

That makes me happy - maybe bad attempts to convert each and every setting to DND rules will die out now. There are few settings that work well with 4e rules and even less with 3.5 rules.

[Talya]

There are few settings that work well with 4e rules and even less with 3.5 rules.

Unfortunately, Forgotten Realms is not one of the few settings that work well with 4e rules, yet here we are.

[Tempest Fennac]

I guess you have a point. Why doesn;t FR work well with the 4th Edition? I think I remember hearing about a campaing-specific event which was used to somehow explain the 4th Edition changes.

[Talya]

I guess you have a point. Why doesn;t FR work well with the 4th Edition? I think I remember hearing about a campaing-specific event which was used to somehow explain the 4th Edition changes.

They had to completely gut and reshape Faerun into something that doesn't resemble the previous world at all, fluffwise, just so that it matched the 4e crunch.

[Tempest Fennac]

It sounds as though they would have been better off not bothering. I can see why some races would need to be altered, but how else did it need to be changed?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'd love to see how they end up re-statting Dri**t (again) to be able to 'explain' all the Mary Sueing he does in the books, that some player can't just steal for their own use.

Either they're going to have to nerf the 'iconics', or you've got a plot hole the size of a mac truck players can use for the purposes of power creep.

[zeruslord]

Of course, Faerun doesn't work at all under 3.5 rules, because Elminster could get into some infinite power loop and send angels to solve every problem as soon as it appears, unless he is a massive jerk. Faerun in 3.5 is basically assuming that none of the high-level wizards is going to break out the cheese and auto-win the setting, which would be the best course of action for any of them to take. The problem with the 4e conversion is that they had to make the setting match the 4e fluff, which goes much farther than the 3.5 fluff ever did and is built far deeper into the ruleset, particularly with the planes.

[Talya]

I'd love to see how they end up re-statting Drizzt (again) to be able to 'explain' all the Mary Sueing he does in the books, that some player can't just steal for their own use.

Either they're going to have to nerf the 'iconics', or you've got a plot hole the size of a mac truck players can use for the purposes of power creep.

Drizzt isn't a particularly powerful iconic, nor a very good example of a "mary-sue." He's a decently written, nicely balanced, and interesting character. The complaints arise from the teeming masses of unoriginal copycats who use the same type of background for the emo-angst factor.

Of course, Faerun doesn't work at all under 3.5 rules, because Elminster could get into some infinite power loop and send angels to solve every problem as soon as it appears, unless he is a massive ****. Faerun in 3.5 is basically assuming that none of the high-level wizards is going to break out the cheese and auto-win the setting, which would be the best course of action for any of them to take. The problem with the 4e conversion is that they had to make the setting match the 4e fluff, which goes much farther than the 3.5 fluff ever did and is built far deeper into the ruleset, particularly with the planes.

None of the high level wizards in Faerun are that high level. I think even Elminster's caster level doesn't break 30, if I recall, and he's the highest level character in the entire setting. He's got a much higher ECL, but a lot of that is template level and other sub-optimal multiclass combinations (he has levels of fighter and cleric, for example.) He also spends much/most of his time planetravelling. I don't even remember that he has epic spellcasting, at all. (In fact, I don't believe Epic Spellcasting has ever, fluffwise or crunchwise, been included in Faerun.)

Anyway, what I said above about Drizzt not being much of a "mary-sue"? While true about Drizzt, it's not true about Elminster--the Avatar of Ed Greenwood and pretty much the classic example of a "mary-sue" character.

[Tengu_temp]

Unfortunately, Forgotten Realms is not one of the few settings that work well with 4e rules, yet here we are.

Fortunately, the only setting I could care less about than Generic Realms is Generichawk - I got the FRPG book for swordmage, genasi and other crunch, and have yet to even start reading the parts about fluff at the end of the book.

And you don't need epic spellcasting to break the world. Ask Tippy.

[Tempest Fennac]

What do you mean about asking Tippy about breaking a world, Tengu?

[Morty]

This thread reinforces my belief that 4ed Realms are tailored for people who didn't like that setting in 3rd edition. It also amazes me how people are apparently expecting a setting to strictly follow the rules they complain about endlessly, i.e magic rules.
Also, I'll just note that many "iconics" are in fact massive wimps optimization-wise, including Drizzt.
And finally, I wonder how will Eberron fare in 4th edition. Not that I'd touch that setting with a ten feet pole in any case, but it doesn't really fit 4ed's "Points of Light" concept.

[Talya]

It sounds as though they would have been better off not bothering. I can see why some races would need to be altered, but how else did it need to be changed?

The mechanics of spellcasting were part of the setting fluff. Of course, they're gone now.

They utterly destroyed magic in the realms, including the Weave and the Goddess who maintained it, and the Shadoweave. They decimated the rich pantheon that the realms had (one of the main things I loved about it.) And, as you said, they completely changed/retconned several races and monsters to "fit" with 4e.

And finally, I wonder how will Eberron fare in 4th edition. Not that I'd touch that setting with a ten feet pole in any case, but it doesn't really fit 4ed's "Points of Light" concept.

I'm expecting Eberron to fair better. For one, 4e has the complete buy-in of Eberron's creator. Secondly, Eberron doesn't already have as rich and detailed a level of history to need retconning. Lastly, I think Eberron's style never did fit 3.5 all that well. I actually look forward to seeing it's 4e adaption. I may take that opportunity to play both in my first 4e and first Eberron campaign.

[Lappy9000]

Probably at least partly because of the situation WotC is in right now, where 3.5 is proving very hard to kill.

Granted, 3.5 has the almighty power of Pun-Pun at it's disposal, as well as a veritable horde of cheesy creations.

"As the newcomers from the land of Forthediction ready their powers, they are instantly cowed by the broken monsters that spew forth from the outlying hills. Older than the primordials themselves, these beings walked the earth even before the dragonborn, and sought to wipe out the existence of the Forthediction.

Martial and Arcane powers meet with formidable spiked chains and halfling-double-rapier blades as the the hordes of Three-Poinfive clash against the armies of Forthediction. The armies battle on in a conflict that promises to undo the world as we know it...."

[Zeful]

Of course if they left it alone, you would have the FR fanboys demanding that their favorite setting be massively retconned and changed so that it would fit the 4e rules. Which any update would require.

So yeah, damned if you do damned if you don't

[Morty]

I'm expecting Eberron to fair better. For one, 4e has the complete buy-in of Eberron's creator. Secondly, Eberron doesn't already have as rich and detailed a level of history to need retconning. Lastly, I think Eberron's style never did fit 3.5 all that well. I actually look forward to seeing it's 4e adaption. I may take that opportunity to play both in my first 4e and first Eberron campaign.

Well, on one hand, FR fits the "Good vs. Evil" theme that's so strong in 4ed much better. On the other hand, Eberron was tailored into resembling action movies just like 4ed. So yeah, it's not sure.

[Tengu_temp]

What do you mean about asking Tippy about breaking a world, Tengu?

Tippy constantly proves with his ideas that even low level wizards can completely change the world around them. And a high level wizard who's not ruling at least a small country is either uninterested, or not trying hard enough.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, on one hand, FR fits the "Good vs. Evil" theme that's so strong in 4ed much better. On the other hand, Eberron was tailored into resembling action movies just like 4ed. So yeah, it's not sure.

Think about what you just said... think very carefully...this is mentioning an ancient horror that makes even Cuthulu cringe in absolute abject horror

*curls up in a corner, rocking back and forth* There was no D&D movie... there was no D&D movie... there was no D&D movie...

[Morty]

Think about what you just said... think very carefully...this is mentioning an ancient horror that makes even Cuthulu cringe in absolute abject horror

*curls up in a corner, rocking back and forth* There was no D&D movie... there was no D&D movie... there was no D&D movie...

Luckily, I haven't had the "pleasure" to watch that movie.

[Talya]

Well, on one hand, FR fits the "Good vs. Evil" theme that's so strong in 4ed much better. On the other hand, Eberron was tailored into resembling action movies just like 4ed. So yeah, it's not sure.

I don't see that "Good vs. Evil" theme being stronger in 4ed. I think they toned it down from 3.x, making everything more relative, getting rid of the good vs. evil symetry from 3.x.

[Tempest Fennac]

I never got the alignment changes (I can't see any reason why a character can't be Chaotic and Good or Lawful and Evil, for instance).