Star Wars Saga Edition (new to game)

[Kazuel]

Hey all, I'm going to be starting in a new game of Star Wars SE where everyone including the DM is new to it (though we're DnD 2E+ veterans). I don't know what era we're playing in yet, but I know I'm going to want to be a Jedi first. I don't need Pun-pun esque optimization but what I am looking for are powers/feats to avoid and in general what I'll need to know to not suck right off the bat. I'll be buying my book later today.

[Kazuel]

do so few people play this game or was my question too vague?

[Llama231]

Well, Jedi are not super powerful in this...
If you are new to it, I would actually suggest going with what you consider coolest instead of best.

[TheCountAlucard]

It really depends on what you want out of your Jedi.

[Llama231]

Possibilities:
Primary force.
Lightsaber.
2 lightsabers.
Double lightsaber.
Jedi with a gun.
Jedi diplomat.
Stealthy jedi.
Unarmed jedi.
etc.

[Ascension]

As Llama says, you can go in all kinds of directions with a Jedi. Of course, part of your direction would depend on the time period and how common Jedi are. Will you be able to use your powers freely, or will you be in hiding? Who trained you? Etcetera.

Also remember that Jedi are not necessarily synonymous with the Jedi class. The Saga system encourages multiclassing and the classes (Jedi, Noble, Scout, Scoundrel, Soldier) are more general archetypes than specific roles. In fact, a first level in Noble, Scout, or Scoundrel is pretty much necessary for any Jedi who want to have skills. The Jedi only get 2+Int trained skills, and even though the Errata gives them a few more class skills, they've still got a really poor list to choose from.

[Mando Knight]

they've still got a really poor list to choose from.

Though with the introduction of Tech Specialist, Nobles have a weird one: no Mechanics.

[Talya]

What type of jedi do you want to play? Then plan for it.

Absolutely required for any jedi:

Trained Skills: Use the Force.
Feats: Force Training (eventually several times), Skill Focus-Use the Force
Talents: Block, Deflect

Beyond that, it really depends where you're going with them.

[NPCMook]

Could always use my goofy Quint-wielding Jedi concept, requires getting a hold of the KotOR Campaign guide to build him though

[Ascension]

Block and Deflect aren't required. In fact, they're downright useless if you don't plan to wield a lightsaber, and even if you are planning on saber-wielding, a high level, high-Dex character could probably get better defense from Lightsaber Defense x3 + Niman and Jar'Kai, what with skill checks not scaling at the same rate as defense.

As for Nobles lacking Mechanics, if you have trained Knowledge (Technology) and the (pretty good in its own right) Educated talent, you can pick up the Engineer talent from Starships of the Galaxy and get trained Mechanics that way, plus speedy installation of new systems in vehicles. That's a bit talent-intensive, I grant you, but it can be done without multiclassing and burning a feat on Skill Training.

[Kiero]

The Jar'Kai talent is a waste of time even for the Jar'Kai (ie twin-blade) stylist.

If the game isn't starting at 1st level, I'd strongly consider starting in another class before multiclassing into Jedi. More skills and often a bit more breadth to your character that way, at the cost of a single point of BAB and some hit points. If you go with a human character, it doesn't even really cost you anything, since you can still get Force Sensetive, Force Training and Use the Force as a Trained Skill at level 1.

If you want to be the ultimate Consular-type, Noble is a good choice for 1st level (there's even cheeky things like the Noble Fencing Talent which can be useful for a Jedi). For a Sentinel, Scoundrel or Scout (I personally think Scout is useful just for the sake of getting a load of skills, and not suffering much hit point loss). It's debateable whether starting a Guardian as Soldier is useful; there's no loss in terms of hit points or BAB, and you get an extra skill. But you do lose out on Acrobatics, which is often an important part of the Guardian's abilities.

My own Jedi character has been switching back and forth between Scout and Jedi levels (started Scout), and I might get some Soldier in a couple of levels time.

[Kazuel]

Well I did finally pick up my book and looking through it, it looks like I want to go mainly Saber Combat route. I'm thinking I want my guy to progress as the ultimate swordsman. So for skills though, it's reccomended I do a 1 level dip in another class pretty early on?

[Kiero]

Well I did finally pick up my book and looking through it, it looks like I want to go mainly Saber Combat route. I'm thinking I want my guy to progress as the ultimate swordsman. So for skills though, it's reccomended I do a 1 level dip in another class pretty early on?

Not "early on", but better for 1st level, then you never need to go back. Much fewer levels spent diverting yourself to non-Jedi classes (or spending Feats on Skill Training), not that it necessarily matters (since you don't have to have Jedi levels just as a Jedi). Again, what level are you starting at?

Your attributes make a difference to what kind of swordsman you are, by the way. If you go with the traditional Dex-based build, that means getting Weapon Finesse and later the Ataru Talent to ensure you can do damage.

If you're Str-based, then you've got some different options. Actually there's a lot less for the Str-based Jedi (as I'm discovering) since it's assumed most characters won't have a high Strength.

There are non-Jedi Talents that can be useful to a swordsman. As before, you could get Noble Fencing and key your fighting prowess of Charisma, rather than Strength or Dexterity, though that does limit onward options a little. In a game with lots of shooty-mooks, the Scout Talent Evasion can be invaluable, since auto-fire is one of the few means mooks have of hitting PCs later on. Combined with Deflect you can become virtually immune to autofire and area-effect weapons.

[Talya]

Block and Deflect aren't required. In fact, they're downright useless if you don't plan to wield a lightsaber...

...and if you don't plan to weild a lightsaber at least a little, you're not a jedi. I just don't understand this idea some people have that they're cool if they play a jedi without a lightsaber. (I play with two like that.) A jedi who sucks with a lightsaber is a lame jedi. The Lightsaber is the symbol and trademark of the jedi--not just the jedi, but the entire star wars universe. It's what we want to see when we watch star wars...the lightsaber duels are everything. Even when I build a force-wizard type character, they are impeccable at defending with their lightsaber, even if they use other abilities for offensive purposes.

If you really want the ability to pump your reflex defense higher, train the acrobatics skill and take melee defense which then grants +6 to RD for -1 to hit, or +10 to RD for -5 to hit, and everything in between. (Melee Defense becomes your new "Fighting Defensively," which gains a +5 additional bonus for having acrobatics trained.)

Talents and feats that nickle&dime your reflex defense higher generally suck, and you'll always do better with Block/Deflect. You start off with +10 to +14 to block/deflect, and by level 20 you're at (2d20 - take the higher roll) +25 to + 31 to block deflect. That's easily comparable to the reflex defense you'd be hitting of 40-45ish while using Melee Defense or while using all the talents you wasted to get RD that high without melee defense. Better yet, if you have maxed out your ability to block/deflect, you'll be trivially stopping those natural 20 critical hits rolled against you as well. Pump them both high, and autofire can't really touch you even without a one level dip in scout.

Well I did finally pick up my book and looking through it, it looks like I want to go mainly Saber Combat route. I'm thinking I want my guy to progress as the ultimate swordsman. So for skills though, it's reccomended I do a 1 level dip in another class pretty early on?

One saber, two sabers, or double saber?

[The_Snark]

...and if you don't plan to weild a lightsaber at least a little, you're not a jedi. I just don't understand this idea some people have that they're cool if they play a jedi without a lightsaber. (I play with two like that.) A jedi who sucks with a lightsaber is a lame jedi. The Lightsaber is the symbol and trademark of the jedi--not just the jedi, but the entire star wars universe. It's what we want to see when we watch star wars...the lightsaber duels are everything. Even when I build a force-wizard type character, they are impeccable at defending with their lightsaber, even if they use other abilities for offensive purposes.

Nonetheless, there are character concepts for whom skill with a lightsaber might not be appropriate. Maybe the character wields a lightsaber, but isn't much good with one despite wanting to be; they might get Block or Deflect as the game goes on, but they wouldn't have it near the start. Maybe they're playing in the Imperial era, in which case they might not have one at all. Even if they do, using it is at best telling other people "there's an impressive bounty on me" and at worst a signal to sound the alarm and shoot that one first. They probably aren't getting much practice with the saber.

Most Jedi will have at least one of those two talents eventually, which is appropriate, but not all of them.

If you really want the ability to pump your reflex defense higher, train the acrobatics skill and take melee defense which then grants +6 to RD for -1 to hit, or +10 to RD for -5 to hit, and everything in between. (Melee Defense becomes your new "Fighting Defensively," which gains a +5 additional bonus for having acrobatics trained.)

I'm pretty sure Melee Defense does not gain the +5 bonus from being trained in Acrobatics; fighting defensively and using the feat are two different actions. If there's a passage in the book that indicates otherwise, I'd love to be proved wrong...

[LurkerInPlayground]

...and if you don't plan to weild a lightsaber at least a little, you're not a jedi. I just don't understand this idea some people have that they're cool if they play a jedi without a lightsaber. (I play with two like that.) A jedi who sucks with a lightsaber is a lame jedi. The Lightsaber is the symbol and trademark of the jedi--not just the jedi, but the entire star wars universe. It's what we want to see when we watch star wars...the lightsaber duels are everything. Even when I build a force-wizard type character, they are impeccable at defending with their lightsaber, even if they use other abilities for offensive purposes.

*pfft*
Everybody knows that lightsabers are just phallic symbols to shore-up personal insecurities. Exactly what does it say when you take a lightsaber away from a Jedi and it suddenly stops making him a Jedi?

Besides, Yoda was doing the whole senile-hermit-wizard act without a lightsaber.

OR putting it simply: You don't get it. It is way cooler to be a Jedi that doesn't need a lightsaber.

[Lupy]

*pfft*
Everybody knows that lightsabers are just phallic symbols to shore-up personal insecurities. Exactly what does it say when you take a lightsaber away from a Jedi and it suddenly stops making him a Jedi?

Besides, Yoda was doing the whole senile-hermit-wizard act without a lightsaber.

OR putting it simply: You don't get it. It is way cooler to be a Jedi that doesn't need a lightsaber.

Let's do the math here:

Yoda + cane thingy = cool
Yoda + lightsaber = backflippy badassness



Okay, and I would have to say take your first level in scout and give yourself a high Dex and Cha. Get a good stealth talent and then multiclass into Jedi. When you hit level 4 put your skill points into Str and Con. You should focus your build on dealing damage with one lightsaber, so that you don't have to waste feats on dual wielding.

[Kiero]

If you're going Scout before Jedi, there's only two Talents that are really worthwhile: Evasion and Long Stride. The former for immunity to autofire when combined with Deflect. The latter for added mobility.

All the re-roll Talents aren't worth blowing a finite resource on, IMO.

[Kazuel]

Well first off, I do want to be a lightsaber wielding badass. Second, I know we wont be playing in the Episode 3+ thru 6, it will either be early Episode 1'ish leading into the clone war or past episode 6, so I shouldn't have to be hiding my Jedi'ness. Thank you all for the advice.

[Kazuel]

Sorry for the double post, but I had another question and I figured it was easier to piggyback this thread than start a new one.

1. If you take block and deflect, is there ever a reason not to attempt it? I mean if you fail, you just take the hit you were already going to take right? It's not like it hits you worse if you fail so even with added -5's it's worth a shot right?

2. Having only the main book what other book would be a good buy for added force powers/talents/secrets?

Thanks again in for all the advice, and for all the future advice that I'm sure is coming.

[NPCMook]

KotOR adds quite a few more powers along with secrets.

Scum and Villainy gives you the rules for upgrading equipment(along with Jawa Racial stats, JEDI JAWA)

Force Unleashed adds more Force related feats

Threats of the Galaxy is basically the more in depth guide to villains

Starships of the Galaxy adds more ships

And this month they are releasing the Clone Wars Campaign Guide

[Talya]

1. If you take block and deflect, is there ever a reason not to attempt it? I mean if you fail, you just take the hit you were already going to take right? It's not like it hits you worse if you fail so even with added -5's it's worth a shot right?

In theory, if two people were shooting at you, one with a holdout blaster and one with a heavy heavy repeating blaster, and the person with the holdout blaster fired first, you may be inclined to deflect the latter, but not the former, based on the amount of damage they were likely to do and the -5 penalty to deflecting the second shot.

2. Having only the main book what other book would be a good buy for added force powers/talents/secrets?

Knights of the Old Republic, for sure. (It also adds a nice PrC if you plan to use two blades or a double saber.)