Monster Racial Ability Bonuses [3.5]

[Runeclaw]

Is there a way to tell for sure what the racial ability bonuses for a monster or animal are? Do you just subtract 10 from the actual scores?

I.e. the abilities for a light warhorse are S:16, D:13, C:17, I:2, W:13, Ch:6

Does it follow therefore that his racial bonuses are S:+6, D:+3, C:+7, I:-8, W:+3, Ch:-4?

That's a net total of +7, which seems high for a racial bonus package.

The SRD says their base abilities are "10 or 11" which seems a little ambiguous.

This is for purposes of deconstructing and reconstructring an animal or monster with different base abilities.

[KillianHawkeye]

I believe that is true except for humanoid-style creatures, which usually state that they were made using such-and-such stat array. But those guys mostly have their racial modifiers listed somewhere anyway.

Basically, if it doesn't mention using a stat array, just subtract 10 or 11.

[Fax Celestis]

You subtract 10 (if even) or 11 (if odd) to determine the racial ability modifiers. The horse would be Str +6, Dex +2, Con, +6, Int -8, Wis +2, Cha -4.

[Douglas]

Subtract 10 or 11, whichever results in an even number, from each ability score. The light warhorse has +6 str, +2 dex, +6 con, -8 int, +2 wis, and -4 cha. Note also that a normal intelligence score of 3 or below indicates the entire species has sub-human or animal level intelligence and natural variation will never shift it more than 1 point in either direction, never above 3, and the vast majority of that "race" has exactly the listed intelligence.

[Maxymiuk]

Is there a way to tell for sure what the racial ability bonuses for a monster or animal are? Do you just subtract 10 from the actual scores?

The standard stat array (unless otherwise stated) is 11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10. Said stats will usually be arranged in such a way that the penalties/bonuses will be even. So:

I.e. the abilities for a light warhorse are S:16, D:13, C:17, I:2, W:13, Ch:6

The stats before racial modifications would be Str 10, Dex 11, Con 11, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 10.

Therefore a light warhorse has Str +6, Dex +2, Con +6, Int -8, Wis +2, Cha -4 as racial modifiers.

EDIT:EDIT: Triple-ninja'd.

[Runeclaw]

Thanks everyone!

[Thurbane]

Does this method take into account the +1 to an ability per 4 hit dice modifier?

[Fax Celestis]

Does this method take into account the +1 to an ability per 4 hit dice modifier?

Yes. Subtract one from the highest score for each 4 HD before doing the -10/-11.

[wadledo]

Yes. Subtract one from the highest score for each 4 HD before doing the -10/-11.

I've never heard this before, where is it stated in DMG/MM's/SRD/PH?

[Fax Celestis]

I've never heard this before, where is it stated in DMG/MM's/SRD/PH?

Frankly, I don't recall. However, since monsters gain stat increases at 4 HD, like any other creature, taking it from their highest score is a reasonable method to go about reverse-engineering it.

[Athaniar]

You subtract 10 (if even) or 11 (if odd) to determine the racial ability modifiers. The horse would be Str +6, Dex +2, Con, +6, Int -8, Wis +2, Cha -4.

Let's take a closer look:

The kobold would, according to your system, have +2 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Wis, -2 Cha. It has +2 Dex, -2 Con, -4 Dex.

The goblin would have +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Wis, -4 Cha. It has +2 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Cha.

The orc would have +6 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -4 Wis, -4 Cha. It has +4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha.

And, to take a PC race example: The elf would have +2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Wis, -2 Cha. It has +2 Dex and +2 Con.

So either your design is flawed, or you don't agree with the Wizards' take on monster races, or you're aware of this, and this isn't meant for already statted-out monster races/player races.

[wadledo]

Frankly, I don't recall. However, since monsters gain stat increases at 4 HD, like any other creature, taking it from their highest score is a reasonable method to go about reverse-engineering it.

So that means that the only difference between a Heavy warhorse and a light warhorse in the beginning is that the light warhorse is faster?
(And, which I just noticed, do less damage with their hooves.
Never noticed that before.)

Lord Xavius: Look under the *Blank* As Characters section.
You'll notice that the warrior/ whatever presented there will have ability scores of 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8 before racial adjustments.

[Fax Celestis]

Let's take a closer look:

The kobold would, according to your system, have +2 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Wis, -2 Cha. It has +2 Dex, -2 Con, -4 Dex.

The goblin would have +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Wis, -4 Cha. It has +2 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Cha.

The orc would have +6 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -4 Wis, -4 Cha. It has +4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha.

And, to take a PC race example: The elf would have +2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Wis, -2 Cha. It has +2 Dex and +2 Con.

So either your design is flawed, or you don't agree with the Wizards' take on monster races, or you're aware of this, and this isn't meant for already statted-out monster races/player races.

If you'll notice:

The kobold warrior presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8.

The goblin warrior presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8.

The orc warrior presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8.

The elf warrior presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8.

...which would, of course, mean that the -10/-11 tactic wouldn't work, since they're not using that array.

In the sake of succinctness, I'll take the orc. He started with Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8. After ability score adjusts, he has Str 17, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 7, Cha 6. Since he used the Nonelite Array (here), you'd subtract those scores instead.
Str 17-13 = Str +4
Dex 11-11 = Dex +0
Con 12-12 = Con+0
Int 8-10 = Int -2
Wis 7-9 = Wis -2
Cha 6-8 = Cha -2

Which:

Orcs As Characters
Orc Traits (Ex)

Orcs possess the following racial traits.

* +4 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma.

...matches up nicely.

So that means that the only difference between a Heavy warhorse and a light warhorse in the beginning is that the light warhorse is faster?
(And, which I just noticed, do less damage with their hooves.
Never noticed that before.)

Yup. Speed, carrying capacity, and Strength is the only difference.

[Athaniar]

Note to self: when taking a closer look, take a closer look.

And for fun: the Tarrasque as a player race:

+34 Str, +6 Dex, +24 Con, -8 Int, +4 Wis, +4 Cha

[Thurbane]

Note to self: when taking a closer look, take a closer look.

And for fun: the Tarrasque as a player race:

+34 Str, +6 Dex, +24 Con, -8 Int, +4 Wis, +4 Cha

Hmm, Tarrasque Favored Soul anyone? Those racial HD and LA might be a small problem, though!

[Athaniar]

+34 Str, +6 Dex, +24 Con, -8 Int, +4 Wis, +4 Cha

I'd rather go Barbarian or Fighter.

[Draz74]

I think INT <3 is kind of a special situation. I'd say the horse has a set "Intelligence 2" rather than a -8 racial Intelligence penalty. (Makes it a little less appealing as a PC choice, now, doesn't it?)

@Fax: Any chance the rule about adjusting for every 4 HD was in Savage Species? Seems like the kind of rule it would have had ...

[Fax Celestis]

I think INT <3 is kind of a special situation. I'd say the horse has a set "Intelligence 2" rather than a -8 racial Intelligence penalty. (Makes it a little less appealing as a PC choice, now, doesn't it?)

@Fax: Any chance the rule about adjusting for every 4 HD was in Savage Species? Seems like the kind of rule it would have had ...

Actually, use this rule for Scores Below 10. For -2 or -4 (that is, a base score of 8 or 6), there's not much difference. But for lower scores, the table actually does further adjustments. And it may have been in that book, or maybe in MM-IV or V.

[Keld Denar]

I'd rather go Barbarian or Fighter.

I'd rather go with a Martial Adept. All those racial HD add a half an initiator level each, meaning a fully advanced Tarrasque could skip right to Mountain Tombstone Strike! RAWR! You could also nab Pouncing Charge, I'm sure of it. Or, come to think of it, a level of sorc or wizard would be good. Blood Wind, cast by a Tarrasque, could make people's arms fall off from about 100' away. NEAT!

[Draz74]

Huh ... Tarrasque Swordsage. Could be quite nasty, with Balance on the Sky stance making up for the Tarrasque's infamous lack of flight. And Pouncing Charge and Mountain Tombstone Strike and Time Stands Still and all them staples.