Classical GREEK D&D

[Ing]

I'm starging up a ancient greek/Roman themed D&D sesion with some mates, and am looking for some sugestions for towns, monsters, and most importantly plot hooks and quests. The world's framed around the mythology and culture of ancient Greece with the D&D races mixed in.

[Delcan]

There's great sources for ideas and plot hooks in the original myths. The stories of Peracles/Hercules, Perseus, Orpheus, Crete and Minos, the Iliad, the Odyssey, and all the good stuff about the gods.

(One good thing to remember - in a Classical D&D setting, the gods are not only going to be active in the world - they're going to be downright nosy. The old gods are fickle, flighty, and very very human in their various vices, hobbies, tendencies to get jealous... they're all plot hooks in and of themselves.)

With monsters, you are unbelievably set too. Just the core Monster Manual has the Medusa, the Minotaur, the Hydra, pegasi, satyrs, nymphs, dryads, centaurs, sea monsters...

Heck, give me a day or two to toy with ideas and brainstorm and I'll write you up stats for the iron-bladed Stymphalian Birds. Those'll be fun. :)

But to summarize, no sources for inspiration are gonna be better than the original mythology and literature. :) You don't have to power through the actual texts; summaries alone will likely inspire your campaign enough.

[BlueWizard]

Definitely theme your cities so not everyone is just a Greek or Roman. Athens {if you read the stuff during the Peloponessian War} was at the height of its learrning and eduaction, and looked down on the war-like spartans {who kicked the Athenian's arse}. Priests of Athena or other gods might be common from Athens {her patron city}. And the Spartans could be fighters and barbarians.

If you blend in a bit of the Norse myths of the North, {They were around back then, just didn't really write much!} you can include fairies, elves, dwarves... and make them just as mysterious if we ran into them now.

Just my 2 cents...

[Altair_the_Vexed]

If you can dig up a copy of Robert Graves' "The Greek Myths", you'll get a dry and academic discussion, myth-by-myth of the possible real events that were the birth of the myths we know today.
It's a lot of religions coming into conflict and surpressing those they conquered, but it's a great jumping off point for a gritty game.

[Ing]

Definitely theme your cities so not everyone is just a Greek or Roman. Athens {if you read the stuff during the Peloponessian War} was at the height of its learrning and eduaction, and looked down on the war-like spartans {who kicked the Athenian's arse}. Priests of Athena or other gods might be common from Athens {her patron city}. And the Spartans could be fighters and barbarians.

If you blend in a bit of the Norse myths of the North, {They were around back then, just didn't really write much!} you can include fairies, elves, dwarves... and make them just as mysterious if we ran into them now.

Just my 2 cents...

Well I have it so there are most towns and city states based on real ones, wtih the big 3 macro states around

so Spartan alligned cities have a far diffrent apperance and culture than Athan or Minoan or non aligned city states like Lesbo or what have you.

[Ing]

The overreaching quest I was going to give them was to bring back a woman's brother from being unlawfully traped in Tartarus. Other ideas i was throwing around with was

A) an athenian philosopher seeking to destroy the Gods out of vengence for his slain master
b) A side quest to retrive a golden apple from Hera's garden realm (compleate with many eyed guardian *beholder*)

[pyrefiend]

I think it's a great idea. My own campain has some greek flavor (hoplites and such). Anyway I think your best bet is the Tatarus quest. Could be interesting getting by Cerberus or even meeting Hades, Kronos even.

[Caelestion]

If you can dig up a copy of Robert Graves' "The Greek Myths", you'll get a dry and academic discussion, myth-by-myth of the possible real events that were the birth of the myths we know today.
It's a lot of religions coming into conflict and surpressing those they conquered, but it's a great jumping off point for a gritty game.

WEll, I never thought I'd see the day when I'd see a serious book on Classical mythology get mentioned in a D&D thread. :) (My father is an ex-classicist, so I have both of Graves' Greek Myths.)

[Ing]

I think it's a great idea. My own campain has some greek flavor (hoplites and such). Anyway I think your best bet is the Tatarus quest. Could be interesting getting by Cerberus or even meeting Hades, Kronos even.

Quite astute of you, my big twist was to have that the prisoner was Kronos they were tricked into saving. Rhea was the woman in disguise and is freeing her ogreish husband to get revenge on her son Zues.

[Umbral_Arcanist]

I found a d20 (i think) varient on the net a while back called mazes and monsters that was based off the idea of DnD being set in a Greek setting versus the germanic/norse/medival setting it was created in (initially)

[Ing]

I found a d20 (i think) varient on the net a while back called mazes and monsters that was based off the idea of DnD being set in a Greek setting versus the germanic/norse/medival setting it was created in (initially)

link?

[TheUdjat]

This made me reflect. I've been designing a world that, while it has a largely original pantheon, is highly derivative of real-world mythology, particularly Greek/Roman, to the extent that playable races are by and large from Greek Mythology, not Norse/Gaelic. I don't even think I realized doing this.

For instance, retooling centaurs, satyrs, etc as playable, and making elves (sidhe), dwarves, gnomes, and our usual suspects the strange, unknown monster races.

And I've high-jacked the thread.

I misinterpretted something someone earlier said, when they mentioned 'don't just have people be Greek/Roman' or something along those lines. What they said is an excellent point (about regional differences), but also don't discount the value of having foreigners in your world. Slaves were very, very common, and they came from both rival city-states and foreign nations not fully understand at that time. It's fun to incorporate some of those elements sometimes (not enough to ruin the atmosphere, but just to make things interesting)

Also don't forget your northern Greeks, the Macedonians (though some would slay me for suggesting they're Greek). They are very interesting stylistic contrast to both Spartan and Athenian styles.

Vicious monsters, human ugliness, damsels in distress, and any combination thereof are great storyhooks. And don't forget parentage and prophecies. Lineage and families are a very important cultural aspect, and prophecies and oracles get lots of glory in Greco-Roman style.

[Caelestion]

Unfortunately, Rhea was so appalled by her brother's habit of eating their children as they were born that she supported Zeus' castration of him and his incarceration in Tarterus (hence the name Carceri).

[Matthew]

If you are not already aware of it, you might be interested in this:

The New Argonauts

[Ing]

Unfortunately, Rhea was so appalled by her brother's habit of eating their children as they were born that she supported Zeus' castration of him and his incarceration in Tarterus (hence the name Carceri).

After what Zues did to her later, it's not a stretch that she would wish to at least get some revenge agianst him.

[bosssmiley]

WEll, I never thought I'd see the day when I'd see a serious book on Classical mythology get mentioned in a D&D thread. :) (My father is an ex-classicist, so I have both of Graves' Greek Myths.)

You are kidding, right? How do you think a lot of us got into role-playing? Kevin Crossley-Holland on the Greek and Norse myths was (along with LOTR) my gateway drug to D&D. ;)

"Marriage of Cadmus and Harmony" is a fun read, especially if you want to integrate the various levels of human-godly interaction without resorting to Epic cheese.

There's a lot of flavourful stuff in that book about how the various myths interact and bleed into one another in one immense supernatural soap-opera. I particularly liked the stuff about Lycurgus (the founder of Sparta) and Erichthonius (the half-serpent founder of Athens).

[Ing]

Anyone have any ideas for quests or plot hooks?

so far I have

*raise the dead
*Golden Apple
*Cull the Minotaurs of the Labyrinth
*Protect a hunter from Artimis's wrath
*find a way to convince Apollo to lift one of his plagues (a swarm of rats and mice ewww)
*Resue a woman taken by Norhter Dwarves (Nordic Traders) durring a night of drunkan revalry

[fangthane]

*Hera is angry. Doesn't matter why, could be any of a bunch of reasons. Make her stop.
*Zeus is in bad with Hera and needs the party to get him out of the doghouse.
*Sparta is about to launch an attack on Athens; have the party repeat Pheidippides' run (albeit perhaps more slowly) with the Spartan army at their back, and work with the Athenians to defend; or let them offer their services to the Spartans
*The Oddyssey and The Iliad provide any number of potential mid-stream hooks, or "prehistory" hooks:
- (example) The cyclopes are causing trouble; the party needs to convince them to relocate to this small island so we can use their land to grow grapes and sheep for ourselves.

The main thing is to try to keep things consistent in terms of chronology - you don't want to run the party into the Nemean Lion, but a beefed lion with heavy DR wouldn't be unreasonable; perhaps it's a descendant of the original, or perhaps an ancestor.

[Umbral_Arcanist]

link?

Here it is

http://storygame.free.fr/MAZES.htm

actually called mazes and minotaurs......

[pyrefiend]

I still have to place my vote on the unintentional liberating of Kronos. That way, when he escapes, there's a whole gods vs. titans war for the PCs to take part in.

[Ing]

Meh...too diffrent from D&D core rules

I figure I'd just do mostly flavor and limits on supplies (joint armor would be VERY rare)

I figured I'd have teh following

Humans: main race everywhere: Decendents of clay man
Elves: live in the heavily wooded Galic/german areas, Egypt and are refuges from Atlantis. Decendents of Gold man
Dwarves: from the high north, Nordic vikings: decendents of Bronze man.
Gnomes: live in the mountians around volcanic areas, worshipers of Hephestis: decendents of silverman.
Halflings, mainland Greece, country folk: decendents of clay man.
Orcs: live in teh woods and mountians, descendents of the earliest man that branched off in the first war. Decendents of protoclay man

[Ing]

I still have to place my vote on the unintentional liberating of Kronos. That way, when he escapes, there's a whole gods vs. titans war for the PCs to take part in.

That's gonna be the over reaching quest but i need to get some side adventures for them to level up on before they start taking down gods and Titans. Hell probably still half of the time they'll be running away/outwitting monsters rather than straight up fighting them....Ancient Greece is a dangerous place.


Other plot points

Seeking non-traditional oracles to access forbiden knowledge

Promethus on teh side of the mountin
the blinded Polynesus on Cyclops island

A fight agianst the Dwarven super soilder (THE ubberbard (half/giant bard barbarian gesalt who occasionally eats his foes)

[Caelestion]

You could of course check out Mongoose's OGL Ancients - a complete source/rulesbook for playing in the Mediterranean/Near East in the classical eras. Ithink it's rather good myself.

[henebry]

Besides Athenians and Spartans, what about Persians and Ethiopians and, well, ALL those other peoples that helped the Greeks define themselves as Greeks by contrast to those "Barbarians" (long-bearded, not capable of Rage and Fast Movement).

I'd personally consider dropping all the classic D&D races and substitute national types (perhaps giving ability adjustments to reflect the very different educations experienced by Spartans, Athenians, Thebans, not to mention Persians, Thracians, Ethiopians etc.)

Of course, you seem to be contemplating a Greek mythos setting, rather than a historical setting. But even so, I think the sumptuous Perisian empire makes a neat contrast after visiting a Spartan village, at least as dramatic as the contrast in trad D&D between a Dwarven mine and an Elfin Treehouse. For more on the Persians (and to get a sense of how exotic they seemed to Greeks) check out Herodotus' history and Anabasis, Xenophon's account of his travels in an Athenian brigade caught behind Persian lines.

Greeks, by the way, were in historical times war machines, largely by virtue of their capacity for fighting in a phalanx formation. The Spartans, who marched into battle to the tune of flutes are hardly typical barbarians. Fighters, maybe, but with a prestige class that gives bonuses to fighting in close formation.

I'd think arcane (and even divine) magic would be relatively rare in a Greek-mythos campaign. Special items would exist, but they'd be the gift of gods and other divine powers. More than items, though, heroes would depend on being able to call on divine powers in time of need. Think of the myths of Odysseus and Perseus (among others): you need a game mechanic that expresses the special relationship certain heroes to patron deities. Not Clerical at all. But perhaps "Favored Soul"? (I don't have the appropriate rulebook to hand, so you'll need to look elsewhere for more precise advice on this point.)

[Ing]

Someone brought up the concept of Women and their treatment in the world.

How does everyone thing I should deal with a female character?

[Telonius]

Ancient Greece had a strong tradition of priestesses, particularly the Oracle at Delphi. There were several strong female characters in ancient Greek plays (such as Antigone). If you want to have a more warlike Fighter-type, she could be an emissary from the Amazons. For a Bard, possibly a bull-jumper (that's from earlier back in Greek history, but you could shoe-horn it in). Of course there was also commonplace slavery, for both men and women, so it's not all roses. But there shouldn't be a problem with female characters interacting with the rest of the setting.

If you're having the Norse, don't forget about the Persians. They were warring with Greece for hundreds of years. Egypt was a major power to the South as well.

For the plot hooks, that golden apple sounds like Eris might be involved. Maybe someone's stolen an Apple of Discord?

[Ing]

Diffrent Apple...these are golden ones that grow in Hera's private garden...Garded by Argos

[Beholden_Caulfield]

For women, it depends very much upon which city-state your PCs belong to. If they're Athenian, a slavishly accurate campaign would assign women quite an unenviable lot. Spartan women, however, were encouraged to participate in athletics and generally ran the day-to-day business of Lakedaemon, especially while the men were at war. It wouldn't be a great stretch for a Spartan woman to take up the life of an adventurer in a D&D campaign.

This raises a central question - to which city do your PCs belong? Greeks felt that one wasn't truly human without a city to call home.

[Ing]

For women, it depends very much upon which city-state your PCs belong to. If they're Athenian, a slavishly accurate campaign would assign women quite an unenviable lot. Spartan women, however, were encouraged to participate in athletics and generally ran the day-to-day business of Lakedaemon, especially while the men were at war. It wouldn't be a great stretch for a Spartan woman to take up the life of an adventurer in a D&D campaign.

This raises a central question - to which city do your PCs belong? Greeks felt that one wasn't truly human without a city to call home.

Pretty much what I was thinking I gav ethe following ideas

1) mulan type woman posing the military
2) Spartian woman
3) Amazon
4) 'barbarian" (not the class)
5) Minoan where female's role is less well understood but since they supposivly were female worshipers they may have had a better lot.

[codexgigas]

I'd discourage the use of Norse mythology. During the Classical and Hellenistic periods, the Germanic tribes were too far north to have any interaction with the Greeks. The first significant contact between the Germanic tribes and Medditerranean cultures came during the second century BCE, when southern Germanic tribes invaded the northern provinces of the Roman Republic. That's almost three hundred years after the Classical Greek period.

Aside from that, the versions of the Norse myths preserved in the Eddas are filled with Hellenistic influence (e.g. the Norns being exact copies of the Fates), and (in the case of the Younger Edda) have actually been framed so that the Norse would be inclined to abandon their ancestral religion and adopt Christianity (e.g. the introduction of the Ragnarok cycle of myths). The material we're dealing with there is much later than Greek mythology, and it's almost impossible to reconstruct Norse mythology as it existed during either the Classical or Hellenistic periods. Besides, the Norse "elves" and "dwarves" (especially the dwarves) are almost nothing like those of D&D.

Other than that, it's your campaign, so run with it. I personally wouldn't use the common D&D races, since they don't mesh with your setting. Consider coming up with reigional variants for humans (it could be as simple as giving them regional skills and bonus feats at character creation) or adapting some of the monster races from the Monster Manual to have either no level adjustment or a +1 one (specifically centaurs and satyrs). However, the heroes of classical mythology are almost exclusively human, so bear that in mind.