Intellegent Items as Characters

[Olo Demonsbane]

I was wondering...

Would it be possible to have an intelligent item for a character? For example, could it be a wizard and constantly use the still spell feat?

Would it still get all the benifets for being an item and a character? Would you still have an ego score (which could be very fun) and all of the powers an intellegent item has, like meteor swarm 1/day or whatever?

What would be the LA of an item? Would it be more or less powerfull, and how could you determine it?

If you were a ring of protection +5, would you gain the +5 bonus to your AC?

Early thanks for all the help!

[Flickerdart]

Yes, you can be an intelligent longsword Paladin who takes another Paladin as a special mount. The Paladin gets his own mount Awakened, that mount takes levels in Wizard and gets a familiar. Enjoy your circus.

[snoopy13a]

I don't why it wouldn't be possible. There are some real disadvantages though.

The item character would be dependent on another player or NPC to carry it around. There's also the possibility of the item character being stolen. The item character would also have much less control in battles. The only exceptions would be an item character that can cast spells or an item character that is directly ordering the NPC carrying or wielding it.

As for a wizard, the item would need someone to scribe its spells, carry along its spellbook and hold it up so it can read the spellbook.

[Kalirren]

The item character would also have much less control in battles. The only exceptions would be an item character that can cast spells or an item character that is directly ordering the NPC carrying or wielding it.

You could take the Leadership feat and have your cohort wield you. It wouldn't be too broken, seeing as the problem with cohorts is usually that you get to control two characters in battle. In this case you still only get the number of actions that a character who hadn't taken the Leadership feat but had a intelligent item would.

I wouldn't be a wizard, though. Perhaps a bard.

[JellyPooga]

The only real answer to this question is "yes", given that any conceivable possiblilty should at least be an option...

...however, as far as game mechanics go, the only balanced way to play as an intelligent item would be to devise a racial template of some description (along with an appropriate Level Adjustment). Said template would likely involve null Dexterity and Strength scores, the Construct type, Tiny or smaller size and a progression of SLA's as your level increases. You'd probably have to throw in a rule to handle Ego situations too. In short, it could be quite complicated, but certainly possible.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Well, if a wizard needs someone to do the spellbook, how about a sorcerer?

A bard that also happens to be a lute! Thanks for the idea!

How about an Improved Familiar, who then goes on solo quests to get enough levels in fighter for the Leadership feat?

Sorry about the screwed up order.

[MickJay]

There's the matter of sundering, would if affect the character because he's an item, or not, because he's got class levels?

[Fixer]

I would strongly discourage any sort of item characters. Part of the cheese that can occur is that the 'character' could get a friendly wizard to upgrade them with additional effects AFTER they are assigned a LA.

Basic conditions needed for a player character, in my book:

1. Must be able to communicate with ordinary folk in SOME fashion (speech, pantomime, whatever). (Item Character might meet this condition.)
2. Must be able to perform the basic acts of their class without magical assistance. (This depends on the class taken. Psion works for just about anything here.)
3. Must be capable of moving under their own power. (This would be the clincher for most item characters.)

If the player meets all these criteria, they are a construct (perhaps a living construct) and should be treated as such.

[Flickerdart]

Well, if a wizard needs someone to do the spellbook, how about a sorcerer?

A bard that also happens to be a lute! Thanks for the idea!

How about an Improved Familiar, who then goes on solo quests to get enough levels in fighter for the Leadership feat?

Sorry about the screwed up order.

Not only that, but the lute is a better bard than the bard wielding it, and he'll never let his owner live it down.

[Jack_Simth]

Well...

You'd need to homebrew it, obviously, but a Ring (or other small, worn item item) with Leadership (or just a controlled patsy) and with access to Malevolence and Dominate Person (either by making them Spell-like abilities, or getting rid of the components, through, say, the Factotem class, the Archmage PrC, or by way of a Silent and Stilled spell (the crystal is, of course, mounted in the item itself)), would work fairly well (worth about +1 LA, because you've got really cheap resurrection that way... if you're evil and never let anyone know that you are the ring, rather than the person wearing the ring). Works better as a villain, though.

While Intelligent Items do have access to their item powers (e.g., a Ring of Telekinesis would be able to use Telekinesis at-will), you don't really need to include that in the character (as it drastically changes the character's abilities and would often be worth a fair amount).

[Knaight]

I would allow this, having had one as an NPC already(a sword with a phoenix trapped in it. Basically lit on fire, had a few heat based long range attacks, with the occasional ability for the phoenix to exist outside of the sword. And the phoenix wasn't very bright and had a lot of stories.), which was loved by the players. I would go for warlock levels in particular, taking fell flight at some point, but mostly sticking to eldritch blast stuff. This makes you a magic sword that can shoot stuff at people. You might also want to have some In-Character griping about not being cleaned quickly enough after battle.

[Prometheus]

Be an Animated Object that someone had cast Awaken Construct on (like the Druid spell Awaken, except that it works on Constructs instead and it is a 9th level spell). It's is covered by the rules, you get to move of your own free will, and you get to be whatever item you want to be.

If you like, perhaps you could advance in HD/size (like a Savage Species progression) so that the item that you control gets larger and larger (or, a number of small object that correspond to the space of the largest size you could be).

Whatever you take, probably the best way to cover gaining magic abilities as a character progression is to be a Bearer of the Ancestral Weapon. I'd also say it would be fair to pay to be upgraded (After all, you probably are your only item-slot).

[TheCountAlucard]

Best class for an intelligent item would probably be Psion...

Just sayin'.

[Olo Demonsbane]

I just had an idea: Polymorph (or Metamorphosis or whatever the Psioic one is).
With the amount of cheese possible already mentioned, could you, if needed, transform into a humanoid form? That would be pretty awesome.
I am thinking of going as a ring, what abilities could you suggest for a LA of +0?

[Olo Demonsbane]

I think that the Bearer of the Anscesteral Weapon Class is a good way to cover it for a weapon. Thanks for that idea!

New Idea: A ring of mage hand (mage hand at will, 1,000gp) rouge. You could pick pocket, and if you have a DM that does not really care about RAW (or RAI actually), you could wield a weapon to sneak attack. Or you could add an at will ray spell.

If you got a combat feat, say Power Attack, could you give your wieder free use of it? Thats an ability from Epic Level Handbook.

[Lycanthromancer]

You could take the Leadership feat and have your cohort wield you. It wouldn't be too broken, seeing as the problem with cohorts is usually that you get to control two characters in battle. In this case you still only get the number of actions that a character who hadn't taken the Leadership feat but had a intelligent item would.

I wouldn't be a wizard, though. Perhaps a bard.

A singing...sword?

[Lycanthromancer]

I just had an idea: Polymorph (or Metamorphosis or whatever the Psioic one is).

You couldn't use polymorph (it only works on living creatures), but metamorphosis is fair game.

[Olo Demonsbane]

I think that I want to be a sorcerer, and maybe a psion as well if the DM allows geshalt ...

A Ring. Definitely a ring. Everyone suspects a sword of being intellegent, but no one suspects a ring. Every other character that I have ends up having an intellegent weapon, but as far as I know, I have never even heard of an intellegent ring.

I want to be able to use mage hand at will. If I put really, really small metal hand-like things on the inside of the ring , mage hand lets him cast spells. It also lets him move around.

A permanent silence spell (inside the ring) is a must. That way, the ring can cast spells without anyone knowing by speaking emenating in, and it can also project its voice out to let everyone hear. Using telepathy, it can hear itself just fine, and therefore takes no penalty on casting this way (I guess).

If the DM oks this, I think the way my character will start out is that one of the characters will start out with a ring of protection +1 or something, which is me. (They will all probably question why I'm sitting around the table, but whatever ) The characters fight through the first mission, wondering why weird spells keep appearing. During the second mission, some brute monster will be taken over by the ring's ego and begin to beg to serve the characters, who will be wondering what is happening. After each monster is killed, it attempts to find another one. They may use drastic measures to find out, but barring that, they may never discover the fact that they have an additional party member!

[Olo Demonsbane]

Metamorphosis is fair game.

If you wanted to be enhanced with additional powers, use metamorphosis to turn into a human, walk into the wizard's guild, go to the headmaster and say "Enhance me."

You could get some strange looks !

[Who_Da_Halfling]

Isn't an Intelligent Ring with Malevolence and Dominate Person more or less the One Ring from LotR?

Obviously missing some abilities but thats what it reminded me of.

I am definitely considering stealing this idea for my campaign...

-JM

[Revanmal]

Not to toot my own horn, but I homebrewed a PC race of living weapons.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92638

Hardly the best homebrew ever, but it may give you an idea or two.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Isn't an Intelligent Ring with Malevolence and Dominate Person more or less the One Ring from LotR?

The Ring doesnt even have to have Malevolence and Dominate Person Abilities because it has ego. While this initially may not be a very high DC, if it sticks itself on a monster with low Will save's finger, it will probably fail one save before the fight is over.

Also, the feat "Ability Focus (ego)" could add large numbers to this, because (if your DM allows cheezing like this) it would make it from +1 ego per +1 of the item to +3 ego to +1 of the item...

You could get a pretty high save DC pretty quickly. +2 shortsword with 10 Int, 12 Wis, 12 Cha, and detect magic would go from ego 6 to ego 18 with this feat!

[Olo Demonsbane]

Thanks for the ideas Revanmal. My only problems with it were that a) I am trying to use preexisting material, if possible. b) I am trying to go more with a ring caster build rather than a weapon melee build.

Despite that, you have given me some very good ideas...

I particualary like the fact that your enhancement bonus increases with your level.

[Lycanthromancer]

You could technically be a regular human/elf/dwarf/etc, and then enhanced if you metamorphosis'd into a masterwork item.

[Jack_Simth]

The Ring doesnt even have to have Malevolence and Dominate Person Abilities because it has ego. While this initially may not be a very high DC, if it sticks itself on a monster with low Will save's finger, it will probably fail one save before the fight is over.

That doesn't work - see, Ego checks are daily, or until a "critical situation". You'll maybe get one for the battle, but not for each round of the battle. Additionally, failing an Ego check vs. an intelligent item doesn't result in a posession, but a concession.

I think that I want to be a sorcerer, and maybe a psion as well if the DM allows geshalt ...

If pairing with Sorcerer, you want Wilder, not Psion - for the Charisma synergy. If pairing with Psion, you want Beguiler, for the Intelligence synergy. You want to avoid the dual casting stat.

Alternately, pick up something that will have a lot of passive benefits - large hit die, a bonus stat to saves, or some such.

I want to be able to use mage hand at will. If I put really, really small metal hand-like things on the inside of the ring , mage hand lets him cast spells. It also lets him move around.

Umm... Mage Hand, by default, doesn't let you cast spells through it... and there's no mechanism for using someone else's hands to cast by way of manipulating them. Even worse, Mage Hand doesn't work on magical objects, attended objects, or creatures - and you'll be all three.

A permanent silence spell (inside the ring) is a must. That way, the ring can cast spells without anyone knowing by speaking emenating in, and it can also project its voice out to let everyone hear. Using telepathy, it can hear itself just fine, and therefore takes no penalty on casting this way (I guess).

You do realize that a Silence spell prevents you from using Verbal components, right? You're better off going with a Psion or Wilder, who can simply make Concentration checks to remove the displays.

If the DM oks this, I think the way my character will start out is that one of the characters will start out with a ring of protection +1 or something, which is me. (They will all probably question why I'm sitting around the table, but whatever ) The characters fight through the first mission, wondering why weird spells keep appearing. During the second mission, some brute monster will be taken over by the ring's ego and begin to beg to serve the characters, who will be wondering what is happening. After each monster is killed, it attempts to find another one. They may use drastic measures to find out, but barring that, they may never discover the fact that they have an additional party member!

Could be amusing.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Many years ago I was joining a campaign (originally based on the 1e Temple of Elemental Evil, but it had run on from there quite a lot). We were looking at a group of minatures and came across a, well, spellbook on legs.

We were so taken by the minature that the DM rolled up a character based on that minature.

Essentially, I was playing an intellegent spellbook (based on the Rag Golem, If I recall correctly) that was itself a sort-of Magic User. It couldn't learn spells, but had the following abilities:

• It could "eat" MU scrolls and then cast them at will. Alternately, a MU could read them from the book. (There was a limit on how many scrolls the book could hold, something like 100 caster levels of spell).
• It could "eat" Illusionist scrolls but not cast them. A MU could read them from the book.
• It could not eat Clerical scrolls (it made the book sick).
• It could cast up to its intellegence in cantrips (from Unearthed Arcana) per day (18 cantrips originally). The book could get very creative in its use of cantrips, including using "spider" as an attack.

There were various other attributes and restrictions. It could understand several languages, but only spoke its own (a very corrupted and mumbled version of common), but could make writing appear on its pages. It could also control what "page" it was opened at if someone opened it, and was quite hard to open if it didn't feel like it.

It later gained the ability to fly (a reward from a quest), and when not adventuring worked as a librarian.

(I think I still have the character sheet somewhere...)

[Darrin]

Be an Animated Object that someone had cast Awaken Construct on (like the Druid spell Awaken, except that it works on Constructs instead and it is a 9th level spell). It's is covered by the rules, you get to move of your own free will, and you get to be whatever item you want to be.

Up to now, I've been harboring a not-so-secret wish to play a Gelatinous Cube PC (via Awaken Ooze)... but now that I think about it... playing a Gazebo would be awesomelicious.

[Ravens_cry]

Be an Animated Object that someone had cast Awaken Construct on (like the Druid spell Awaken, except that it works on Constructs instead and it is a 9th level spell). It's is covered by the rules, you get to move of your own free will, and you get to be whatever item you want to be.

But what happens if you get Dispel Magic cast on you?

[Olo Demonsbane]

Up to now, I've been harboring a not-so-secret wish to play a Gelatinous Cube PC (via Awaken Ooze)... but now that I think about it... playing a Gazebo would be awesomelicious.

There already is an awakened cube as the leader of a thieves guild in the Affilation section of PHB2. Good for use as precident if your DM looks at you strangely and starts (cussing you out) asking you what on earth you are doing.

Jack, my DM is kinda messed up, and has already let one of my previous items (a morningstar) take control of an orc in order to have my character raised. Im pretty sure he will house rule it in (I have already talked to him a little about this). Anyway, it doesnt just cause concussion, the DMG says that you can force your possesser to surrender, drop from his hand, or even strike the possesser. That sounds pretty dominating.

I know Wilder/Sorcerer would be better, but I am going for versitality. There are tons of cool Psionic Powers, but the wilder only gets one spell per 2 class levels! And Beguiler... I already have a beguiler that I am playing, but thanks for the help. I will have lots of room to play around with my stats, because I will roll 4d6 or whatever, then take away the three lowest because of Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. I probably wont need any high passive, like monk, because I probably wont be targeted too much.

If you have the spell spell immunity from a friendly cleric, he can make you immune to dispel magic (and shatter). Otherwise, magic items are only suppressed for 1d4 rounds, which would stink...because the characters will be attacked by my controlled monster until I am unsuppressed as well as the spellcasting one.

[Darrin]

But what happens if you get Dispel Magic cast on you?

Use a template. Incarnate Construct or Effigy can turn you into a construct.