[3.5]Reducing size and how it effects cr

[RagnaroksChosen]

Hey all,

Quick question, If A GM reduces the size of a monster Example Giant from huge to large, another being an ogre from Large to medium, how would the CR be effected?
Me and the GM where thinking it would reduce the CR by 1 or 2.

Thanks all

[Starbuck_II]

Hey all,

Quick question, If A GM reduces the size of a monster Example Giant from huge to large, another being an ogre from Large to medium, how would the CR be effected?
Me and the GM where thinking it would reduce the CR by 1 or 2.

Thanks all

Reducing size and stats (as the Monster Manual does it)?
So Ogres lose 8 Str?
So the Ogre becomes Racially: +2 Str, +0 Dex, +0 Con, -4 Intelligence, -4 Charisma. +3 NA.

Yeah, that is definately, worth a CR reduction or 2.

Really, the only thing a Meduim Ogre has is lots of hps (racial x4) and +3 Natural over a 1/2 Orc.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Reducing size and stats (as the Monster Manual does it)?
So Ogres lose 8 Str?
So the Ogre becomes Racially: +2 Str, +0 Dex, +0 Con, -4 Intelligence, -4 Charisma. +3 NA.

Yeah, that is definately, worth a CR reduction or 2.

Really, the only thing a Meduim Ogre has is lots of hps (racial x4) and +3 Natural over a 1/2 Orc.

Thanks you very much

[Zaq]

It really depends on the monster. Reducing the size and thus the stats of an ogre will hurt that ogre a lot more than reducing the size and stats of, say, an ogre mage. Be careful about applying hard-and-fast rules to something like that.

[Who_Da_Halfling]

It really depends on the monster. Reducing the size and thus the stats of an ogre will hurt that ogre a lot more than reducing the size and stats of, say, an ogre mage. Be careful about applying hard-and-fast rules to something like that.

Agreed. Keep in mind also that reducing size affects AC and AB, so its possible for the CR to not really change, or for it to change in either direction, really. For instance, an Ogre gets +1 AC for being reduced in size. If it keeps most/all of its STR bonus, then the loss of 1 AB doesn't really make much difference, and the extra AC might. Conversely, removing some STR might make the Ogre much less challenging, since it loses AB from STR and from size.

Honestly, remember that CR is more guidelines than actual rules and you'll be ok.

-JM

[Tequila Sunrise]

What Zaq said. If the monster is melee-focussed, the big issue with changing size is the difference in Reach from its old size to its new size. For example reducing an ogre to Medium size is a significant reduction in power, because the PCs no long have to work around its superior reach. But reducing a Huge giant to Large size isn't a big deal at all, because PCs still have inferior reach.

TS