[3.5] Build challenge - Knowledge Monkey

[Thurbane]

Just bouncing around a few ideas for my next campaign - I'd like to have an NPC/DMPC sage-type character with really good Knowledge skills. While this could be as simple as an Expert, Bard or Wizard, I was hoping for it to be a little more "off the wall", to keep players guessing. Maybe something like an Archivist, or other character who has palpable class abilities that run off Knowledge checks. The Paragnostic Apostle PrC might be apt, as well.

The basic guidelines would be a humanoid (preferably human or a gray elf), around ECL 9 or 10, most 3.5 books (no Dragon mags); nothing Eberron or FR specific (it will be a Greyhawk based campaign); also, we don't use psionics or Incarnum in our games.

[BRC]

An Urban Savvant from Cityscape sounds like a good PRC for this type of character. I would go with a Bard going into Urban Savant.

[Arcane_Snowman]

Factotum, boost his Intelligence through the roof (using age categories if you want) and have at least one rank in all Knowledge skills so he can use cunning surge to add his Factotum level to a knowledge check, also, the Collector of Stories Skill Trick is quite good. Additionally, if you get something like Knowledge Devotion, the allies will be dealing extra damage against enemies with a successful knowledge check from him.

[LordZarth]

Factotum, boost his Intelligence through the roof (using age categories if you want) and have at least one rank in all Knowledge skills so he can use cunning surge to add his Factotum level to a knowledge check, also, the Collector of Stories Skill Trick is quite good. Additionally, if you get something like Knowledge Devotion, the allies will be dealing extra damage against enemies with a successful knowledge check from him.

Currently, I am playing a Venerable Factotum that has every Knowledge skill maxed. Usefulness depends on your DM. Ask me anything you like.

[MammonAzrael]

If you want something more martial, a Duskblade can work well since it have all knowledge skills...and it's awesome with the Knowledge Devotion feat. And certainly a different angle for your scholar.

[dspeyer]

There exists a feat called Educated, which, if taken at first level, makes all knowledge skills class forever. With this, you can take any class or combination of classes you like, so long as they have a lot of skill ranks. Something which makes good use of a high intelligence, such as factotum or beguiler is probably best.

The problem of really obscure knowledges remains. Jack of All Trades will let you hit high DCs if you can get your generic bonuses high enough. Cunning Surge is probably the most powerful, but can only be used a limited number of times per day. Bardic knack is weaker, but can be used unlimited times. Ironically, you must give up bardic knowledge for it. Still, adding half your class level to a DC 10 knowledge(ancient dwarvish recipes) check beats adding your whole level to a DC 30 bardic knowledge. If you want to hedge your bets, prestige into loremaster.

[JackMage666]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Archivist.

Basically, get massive bonuses against enemies with you Knowledge Checks, add on Knowledge Devotion to put the icing on the cake. On top of that, full Divine Casting (and if you want to be cheesy, VERY FULL divine casting, from any Divine list, provided you can find a scroll.)

That's what I'd go with, anyway. The only problem would be skill points, but since it's Int based, it's pretty solid anyway.

[JeminiZero]

How about a Cloistered Cleric? He can make knowledge checks equal to his class level + int modifier (and +2 synergy if he has 5 ranks in K-History). Give him collector of stories, a decent starting Int score and some nice Int Boosting gear and he should be able to make almost any check as if he had maxed out knowledge for his level.

If you want to throw players off give him some of the more unorthodox domains and feats. He already automatically has knowledge domain, so he can cast clairaudience/clairvoyance and divination.

Make him human and give him able learner and he will be able to buy some skill monkey skills cross class at a discount, a few ranks in UMD can make him use some class-specific gear. The commerce domain has glibness if you need him to lie through his teeth. The magic domain lets him use items as a wizard half his level.

Have him DMM persist some buff spells "off-screen" so that when combat comes he can fight as well as a fighter. Especially Divine Power, since cloistered cleric only has 1/2 BAB progression.

[theMycon]

Currently, I am playing a Venerable Factotum that has every Knowledge skill maxed. Usefulness depends on your DM. Ask me anything you like.

What's the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? First Capital of the United States? Does a dog have a Buddha-like nature?

[Arcane_Snowman]

What's the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

is it an African or European swallow?

[Telonius]

Does a dog have a Buddha-like nature?

Trick question. Nature doesn't have a Buddha.

[Draz74]

One other option is Psion ... like some of the other choices, he'll have a high INT and all Knowledges as class skills, but will struggle to have enough skill points to know everything.

Unlike any of the other suggestions though, he has easy access to the excellent first-level power Call to Mind, which lets you reroll any failed Knowledge check once, with a bonus, for just 1 PP.

If nothing else, if this character is high-level-ish, a dip in Psion for 1-3 levels couldn't hurt.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Archivist 7/Loremaster 3
Dark Knowledge class feature(bonuses based on Knowledge checks), the Knowledge Devotion Feat(bonuses based on Knowledge checks), Collector of Stories skill trick(+5 to all knowledge checks), Bardic Knowledge(with a level of 5), and Int-based casting from all lists. Enjoy.

[Draz74]

Collector of Stories skill trick(+5 to all knowledge checks),

1/encounter, and only if they are Knowledge checks made to identify a monster or know about how to fight it. Though I've heard some DMs will allow it to count for the Knowledge checks made specifically for Knowledge Devotion.

Bardic Knowledge(with a level of 5),

Actually, you can use your full 10 levels on this.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

1/encounter, and only if they are Knowledge checks made to identify a monster or know about how to fight it. Though I've heard some DMs will allow it to count for the Knowledge checks made specifically for Knowledge Devotion.

It's poorly worded. What it applies to depends on the DM.

Actually, you can use your full 10 levels on this.

Do Archivist's get Bardic Knowledge? That's the main reason I took Loremaster, the "anything" check. If he gets it already, there's better things to put those prerequisites in.

[ericgrau]

Venerable or old bard/loremaster. Focused on int of course. Grey elf for the int if you can manage it or human if you need the feat for the loremaster pre-reqs. Cha is secondary, or perhaps only the minimum required for spellcasting. So avoid spells with saves that only trigger 1 save.

Pro: Two "bardic knowledge" checks, decent skill points, speak language as a class skill in both classes, right flavor, high knowledge mods, great at crafting magic items (especially +X ones). Exactly the kind of utility stuff the players will like.

Con: Poor BAB and mediocre casting. Mediocre combatant. Though that helps keep him from overshadowing the PCs and focuses him on a utility role.

There are still good low level support spells like grease, glitterdust, haste, etc. for him to cast. I'd consider grabbing a bunch of low level utility scrolls too, especially ones with divination spells. Ones that he can make frequent use of can go on his memorized list though. I'd get an even mix of these and the combat spells. I picked out some thematically appropriate non-combat spells that he could still use frequently and thus put on his spell list (others would go on scrolls):

0: know direction, detect magic, lullaby, prestidigitation
1: alarm, detect secret doors
2: detect thoughts (good for both scouting & his theme)
3: -
4: legend lore, zone of silence
5: -
6: analyze dweomer

[Thurbane]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. So far I'm leaning towards Gnome Archivist 8/Paragnostic Apostle 2, with the Trivial Knowledge, Knowledge Devotion, Archivist of Nature and Draconic Archivist feats.

...any ideas on equipment? The Book of All Knowledge (CC) and Tome of Worldly Memory (MIC) spring to mind.

[Thurbane]

Well, I will be the DM, so I'll have a think about that suggestion.

[Shalist]

I'd recommend they worked on a sliding scale, as the books would be less useful the rarer the knowledge is...ie, a book on 'religion' would be +4 for a DC 10 check, with +3 at DC 15 (Maybe the book would let other party members make the knowledge check untrained? it'd just take them longer, or some such), +1 at DC25, and useless for a DC 30 check. A book on 'undead' would be +4 at DC 20, and a book on 'vampires' would be +4 at DC 30.

Though a straight up +2, as per 'masterwork tools,' would be simpler :P

Either way, you'd be limited by your coin purse and (extra dimensional) inventory space., but having the character pack around his own library, and always have his nose in a book that he's either writing, or reading, makes for a nice flavor bit.

[Draz74]

It's poorly worded. What it applies to depends on the DM.Do Archivist's get Bardic Knowledge? That's the main reason I took Loremaster, the "anything" check. If he gets it already, there's better things to put those prerequisites in.

I don't think Archivists get it; I'm just being a rules lawyer with Loremaster, which says the ability is based on your "level," not your "Loremaster level" or "class level."

...any ideas on equipment? The Book of All Knowledge (CC) and Tome of Worldly Memory (MIC) spring to mind.

The other one to consider is the Tome of Ancient Lore (MIC). Requires an hour of study each day, and a partly-neutral alignment, and it's more expensive, but it replaces the need for Tome of Worldly Memory if used faithfully. Since you're the DM, the fact that it's a Relic (extra roleplay potential) probably adds to the appeal, not detracts.

[The Glyphstone]

I don't think Archivists get it; I'm just being a rules lawyer with Loremaster, which says the ability is based on your "level," not your "Loremaster level" or "class level."


.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way. "Level' defaults to "class level' unless it specifically says 'character level''.

[ericgrau]

^ It says "The loremaster adds her level and her Intelligence modifier to the lore check, which functions otherwise exactly like a bardic knowledge check." it could have been more specific by saying "loremaster level" like bardic knowledge does and even other parts of the loremaster prestige class description says. Or it could have been more specific by saying "character level". IMO "loremaster level" is the default when it's not specified, and perhaps that's what they meant when they had "loremaster" so close to "her level", but I can't say.

Well, I will be the DM, so I'll have a think about that suggestion.

It makes more sense if you think of it as a generic circumstance bonus rather than a specific "masterwork tool" circumstance bonus. For that the bonus is also typically +2. As in doing some library research to get a +2.

[Draz74]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way. "Level' defaults to "class level' unless it specifically says 'character level''.

Really? News to me. Most PrCs don't use such a "default rule," if such a rule in fact exists. Loremaster is quite unusual in not specifying what it's referring to, even among DMG PrCs that were written before the authors were used to being super-precise about this sort of thing.

The way most PrCs are careful to specify "class level," etc., makes me think that the variation on Loremaster was intentional.

Also, it's a pretty crappy ability if you read it your way. "Like the Bard ability, but with a -7 penalty ... and you call yourself a Loremaster?"

[ericgrau]

Also, it's a pretty crappy ability if you read it your way. "Like the Bard ability, but with a -7 penalty ... and you call yourself a Loremaster?"

Yeah, it is kinda lousy. Though bardic knowledge is still useful at all levels. In fact you get the more legendary knowledge at early levels and the more mundane knowledge at higher levels. Note that the loremaster also gets greater lore and true lore at higher levels. True lore is significantly better than bardic knowledge. And it would be really something to take a 2 level dip into loremaster and <bamn> you got full blown bardic knowledge regardless of what other classes you continue into from here. So, I dunno, but I'm leaning towards "loremaster level".

[LordZarth]

What's the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? First Capital of the United States? Does a dog have a Buddha-like nature?

1. More specific.

2. Which United States?

3. Turn the word around. And get a dog.

[dspeyer]

One more trick I spotted here, and if and archivist can find a scroll of greater heroism scribed by a divine bard, he can copy it into his prayerbook and then dmm(persist) it for +4 to all skill checks (and saves). Combined with Jack of all Trades, that's very handy for obscure knowledge skills.

[Thurbane]

I'll post up my current build when I'm on my home PC...I am a little worried about redundancy between the Archivist Dark Knowledge class feature and the benefits gain from the Knowledge Devotion feat.

[Heliomance]

If you go Dragonwrought Kobold, and get 19 Int, you can take the Draconic Knowlesge feat from the Draconomicon which is incredible. It's like Bardic Knowledge, except the DC is determined not by how many people know it, but by how important it is. The listed example for a DC 10 check is "Information about the creation of the world, worldwide cataclysms, powerful places of mystery, or gods."

[Thurbane]

I'll look at that feat, but I'm pretty set on the character being of a "standard" PHB race, or subrace thereof...

[Tubercular Ox]

Knowledge Devotion is a trap. It only works for you, not your party. Is your character going to be in melee? Unless I'm missing something. If I am... LET ME KNOW.

Here at Giant in the Playground you should appreciate the significance of a Kobold oracle.

Also, Trivial Knowledge: It eats up a lot of room in the build but three levels of Stoneblessed (gnome) would let you qualify for it if you don't want to actually be a gnome. Hard to imagine what race would make three levels of Stoneblessed worth it just for trivial knowledge.

Thanks for opening this. I love knowledge skills and learned a lot here.