Sneaking Around In Full Armour, Part II

[Heliomance]

What's the best armour we can come up with for a dexy scout-type? The original SAIFA thread is great, but it requires putting levels into Dread Commando. I'm sure we can come up with some awesome armour that doesn't need you to build specifically to wear it.

Goals:
A base of medium or even heavy armour
No ACP
Max dex of +7 or higher.

Currently the best I've come up with is Mithral Breastplate of Nimbleness, by looking at the Armoured Wizards Here They Come thread, but this is the Playground. I'm sure we can do better than that.

[BobVosh]

Freedom of movement?
Iron Silence?
Just a though, carry on.

[PrGo]

It would probably have to be made of mithral and have halfweight* enchantment.


*I'm not sure if that increases the max dexterity or reduces the check penalty for the armor,so I'd be grateful if someone corrects that. Its originally from the Underdark book.

[PinkysBrain]

Unless you can find some PrC to let you tumble in medium armor you pretty much have to be a Dwarf of you go with a mithral heavy armor.

[Heliomance]

The idea is to make it start out as heavy as possible and have it end up light once we've fnished loading it with enchantments.

[PinkysBrain]

That might be the idea, but it isn't possible with item properties alone ... not without bringing tesselated into the mix. AEG is a bit of a questionable source and a Tesselated armour is a specific armour, making a specific armour from a rare material is a bit of a DM fiat thing IMO.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The idea is to make it start out as heavy as possible and have it end up light once we've fnished loading it with enchantments.

Why bother?

Mithral Chain Shirt. +4 armor bonus to AC, and +6 Max Dex Bonus. Its Light armor, and has no dex penalty. Furthermore, it only has a 10% ASF, which means you can slap Twilight on it and you have something any caster can wear. Slap on Dastana, and it ends up even better than Mithral Full Plate.

[Heliomance]

The +1 mithril breastplate of nimbleness I mentioned above gets a +6 armour bonus to AC and has a max dex of +7, with no ACP. It's strictly better.

[Animefunkmaster]

Mithral Tessellated Armor (+2 Fullplate) Nimbleness
25,560
+10 Armor Bonus No Armor Check +3 Max Dex.

Or you could simply (BETTER FOR THE GOLD)
+5 Leather Armor
25,160
+8 Armor, No armor Check, +6 Max Dex

Instead of trying to find the biggest armor you can have dex in, try finding a lighter armor you can buff up. Mithral and Nimbleness are useless (and expensive) enhancements when all is said and done, and it does nothing for your speed (which to me is more important that armor check penalty). If you have money to burn you should find a mix of buffed up light armor, ring of deflection, pendants of natural armor (both the ring and pendant +1 is less expensive than a +3 or higher enhancement) and a shield (possibly animated).

As far as armor check is concerned you could always grab the ever so inexpensive competence bonus additions to your armor (slick, shadow, ect) for the skills you want (doesn't take away the armor check but the bonus helps more than nimbleness).

[Human Paragon 3]

By taking 4 levels (though the full 5 levels is nicer still) in Dread Commando (heroes of battle) you get armored ease, which will reduce armor check penalties by 4, making the Armor Check Penalty of Mithral Full Plate 0. Your fast movement from scout should make the speed penalty more or less meaningless. It advances precision damage too, although it's sudden strike damage. The class gives an initiative bonus, however, which will help you get sudden strike and everything else. At level 5, the initiative bonus is a nice big +5.


EDIT: The PrC requires Dodge and Mobility, which sucks, but you can take elusive target to sweeten the deal and make the two prereqs worth it.

[Ponce]

Mithral Tessellated Armor (+2 Fullplate) Nimbleness
25,560
+10 Armor Bonus No Armor Check +3 Max Dex.

Or you could simply (BETTER FOR THE GOLD)
+5 Leather Armor
25,160
+8 Armor, No armor Check, +6 Max Dex

Instead of trying to find the biggest armor you can have dex in, try finding a lighter armor you can buff up. Mithral and Nimbleness are useless (and expensive) enhancements when all is said and done, and it does nothing for your speed (which to me is more important that armor check penalty). If you have money to burn you should find a mix of buffed up light armor, ring of deflection, pendants of natural armor (both the ring and pendant +1 is less expensive than a +3 or higher enhancement) and a shield (possibly animated).

As far as armor check is concerned you could always grab the ever so inexpensive competence bonus additions to your armor (slick, shadow, ect) for the skills you want (doesn't take away the armor check but the bonus helps more than nimbleness).

But you could do the former and Magic Vestment it.

[PinkysBrain]

Your fast movement from scout should make the speed penalty more or less meaningless.

Except you can't tumble if you have a speed penalty ...

[Keld Denar]

Except you can't tumble if you have a speed penalty ...

Unless you are a dwarf. Dwarves can do cartwheels in Full Plate, since they never take a penalty to movement in armor.

[Paul H]

Hi

How about just casting Silence? Beguilers have it, as do Clerics. Beguilers also get Invis.

IMHO it's the Balance checks in Full Plate, not the sneakiness that's the problem........

Cheers
Paul H

[Heliomance]

I am perfectly aware that Dread Commando helps. The idea of the thread is to come up with armours that any dexy character can just pick up and wear, that doesn't need a build specifically for it.

I'm not sure why tumbling is being seen as an issue - mithral makes medium armour light, meaning you can tumble in it just fine, and it doesn't have a speed penalty.

Nimbleness is actually very good. Not only does it lower ACP by one, it also increases the max dex of the armour by two. If you have high dex, it's a godsend. As pointed out above, slap it on a mithral breastplate and you have 0ACP armour with a +7 max dex. You can then add on standard enhancement bonuses to the AC as needed.

I find it very hard to believe I've found the best possible armour already. There must be more things that can increase max dex.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The +1 mithril breastplate of nimbleness I mentioned above gets a +6 armour bonus to AC and has a max dex of +7, with no ACP. It's strictly better.

Sorry, but you are incorrect.

If you were to put +1 and Nimbleness on Mithral Chain Shirt with the Dastansa, you'd end up with an Armor bonus of +6 and a max dex of +8.

Mechanically, the chain shirt and full plate are the two strongest armors in the game. Everything else is sub-par. Therefore, any attempt to do anything with any other armor type can generally be applied to one or the other to make an even more superior piece of armor.

[Heliomance]

What's to stop you putting the Dastansa (whatever that is) on the breastplate? Then, it seems to me, that it has an armour bonus one higher than the chain shirt and a max dex one lower - if you have a +8 dex bonus then it comes down to whether you're more worried about your touch AC or your flat-footed AC. If you have a +7 or lower, the breastplate is better.

[MisterSaturnine]

What's to stop you putting the Dastansa (whatever that is) on the breastplate? Then, it seems to me, that it has an armour bonus one higher than the chain shirt and a max dex one lower - if you have a +8 dex bonus then it comes down to whether you're more worried about your touch AC or your flat-footed AC. If you have a +7 or lower, the breastplate is better.

Unless I'm mistaken, you can only put a Dastana on light armor.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

What's to stop you putting the Dastansa (whatever that is) on the breastplate? Then, it seems to me, that it has an armour bonus one higher than the chain shirt and a max dex one lower - if you have a +8 dex bonus then it comes down to whether you're more worried about your touch AC or your flat-footed AC. If you have a +7 or lower, the breastplate is better.

From Arms and Equipment, page 15:

Dastana may be worn with Padded, Leather, or Chain Shirt, and adds a +1 to the armor value. It also can come in Mithral, in which case it has no ACP or ASF

[Heliomance]

Ah, fair enough. In that case, I concede.

Current winner: +X Mithral Chain Shirt of Nimbleness, and a Mithral Dastana.

If you enchant the dastana with an enhancement bonus, does it stack with any bonus on the armour?

[Lys]

In Magic Item Compendium, Nimbleness gives a +1 max dex and a -2 ACP.

Dungeon Master's Guide, p. 220.

Celestial Armor
+3 Chainmal. +8 max dex, -2 ACP, wearer can use fly 1/day, considered light armor.

Put Nimbleness on it and you have +9 max dex, no ACP.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ah, fair enough. In that case, I concede.

Current winner: +X Mithral Chain Shirt of Nimbleness, and a Mithral Dastana.

If you enchant the dastana with an enhancement bonus, does it stack with any bonus on the armour?

No, it is still an Enhancement Bonus to AC, and so does not stack with any other enhancement bonus to AC, such as that on the armor itself.

However, you CAN enchant it with +1, then stack other effects on it (such as various energy resistances, silent moves, shadowed, etc...)

Also, a Mithral Full Plate will start off with a +8 Armor bonus and a +3 to max dex. Tack on Nimbleness and that brings the bonuses up to par with the Mithral Chain Shirt of Nimbleness, actually DOES become Light armor (goes down to Medium due to MIthral, and down to Light with Nimbleness). So if you have lower dex, and want higher Armor bonus to AC, this would be a better choice. However, if you are already a nimble fellow who is not worried about being flat-footed (uncanny dodge, perhaps), then the former would likely be more valuable.