A blaster build help

[kalt]

Well something happened last session that I didn't see coming. The DM actually told me to play a stronger character. The dread necromancer just hit 8th level and lets say his animated storm giants do some work. I'd like to try out an arcane blaster I suppose. Now I'm aware this isn't the best way to go, but all splat books are allowed so I figure even an evoker can be decent. The big downsides I see though is that the main enemies are drow and demons...(so SR out the wazoo). So I could use some help coming up with an optimized blaster build. I'd figure Incantatrix would be in there more than likely then it gets a little hazy. So is there a prototypical solid blaster build anyone has? I appreciate the help in advance. Ohh rest of the part (Dread Necromancer, VoP Githzerai monk, cleric/inquisitor/RSOP). We are already level 8 and this will go to 21. I appreciate the help in advance

[valadil]

The orb spells from Complete Mage bypass SR. I'd look into those. They're the standard damage spell for batman types who don't blast but need one damage spell just in case. I'm also fond of Melf's Unicorn Arrow from PHB2.

Incantatrix is amazing if your GM allows it.

[kalt]

Ahh sorry for not being a bit more clear. I'm aware of the conjuration spells I'm just not really looking into playing batman, I've played many very effectively, but would like to try the suboptimal blaster albeit an optimized arcane blaster.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Actually, I'd suggest Warlock for all your unlimited times per day blasting needs. With the Vitriolic Blast invocation, all your blasts can be done with a distinct lack of SR. You can pick up invocations to further alter how your blast is used. Normally, it's a RTA with no save, but you can make it a Chain, a Cone, a PBAE (Point Blank Area Effect centered on Caster), or with Eldritch Glaive, it turns into a weapon that hits for your full iteration of attacks as touch attacks.

You can also load up effects into it like Noxious Blast, which is Fort Save or be Nauseated, or Utterdark Blast for stacking on two negative levels on each target.

Furthermore, you get other invocations that are pretty handy. Charm Monster, Fly, Bestow Curse, Invisibility... all as at-will Spell-Like Abilities. Flee The Scene is a DimDoor that leaves an illusionary double behind to further fool opponents. Chilling Tentacles is a good way to keep the Drow from using their Levitate abilities and dishes out some Cold damage as well. Keeps casters from casting, as they are grappled. Devour Magic is good at stripping buffs.

Best of all? You don't need to worry about how many more times you can pull it off. You don't need to lug around eight different books from which you got your spells. It's quick, simple, easy to level, and does a lot of blasting.

[Arcane_Snowman]

If you want to play a blaster, Sorcerer is the best way to go, why? Wings of Flurry from Races of the Dragon is one best spells for dealing damage. And if you start at level 8, you'll be having it to begin with. I'll have to agree with Valadil as well, Incantatrix is an awesome prestige class, if your DM allows further cheese, the Dragonwrought Kobold feat will allow you to take the Greater Dragon Rite (from the Web Enhancement) which will increase your sorcerer level by 1 (thus making your spell progression as fast as a Wizards).

[kalt]

Ohh that sounds fun sure why not. So yes I guess I'll make him a dragonwraught kobold. Incantatrix is a go so I don't really have to worry about that. I'd just like to try out something a little different than my prototypical batman wizard and the DM didn't want to put up with a Malconvoker so I figure this should work.

[Zaq]

If all you care about is getting the biggest boom, Wilders can sling around huge handfuls of dice pretty easily. There's a lot of downsides to playing a Wilder, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, but if all that matters is "how many dice can I throw at this enemy?" a Wilder is a pretty decent choice. Split Psionic Ray + Crystal Shard + Wild Surge = lots and lots of d6s that hit on a touch attack. Mind Thrust does d10s instead of d6s, but allows a save and is mind-affecting. I don't think a Wilder is necessarily a very good class, but then blasting isn't generally a very good archetype, so that's kind of why. A Wilder can't do a lot else, but they can throw lots of dice around when they want to.

Overall I'd recommend the Orb line of spells, as stated above. No save and no SR means that you're pretty much guaranteed to hit, and they're easily metamagicked into truly disgusting wads of pain. While the archetypical Batman Wizard is often a Conjuration specialist, just because the Orbs are Conjuration doesn't mean you have to use all the other really good Conjuration spells. (I mean, you probably SHOULD, because they're revered for a reason, but if your heart is set on blasting and nothing else, nothing's forcing you to prepare anything else.) At lowish levels, Warmages are useful for raw damage (and, of course, nothing else) thanks to Warmage Edge, but even with the Extra Edge feat that bonus trails off significantly as you reach higher levels. (+5 or +6 damage just doesn't cut it at 12th level, you know?) Of course, aside from Edge, anything a Warmage can do a Sorcerer can do better, but it's less work for a Warmage, so they make good NPCs. Not that you're looking at NPCs, of course.

But yeah, metamagic is your best friend here. Twin, Empower, Split Ray, sometimes Maximize. It's not the best use of arcane magic, but if you're happy with dealing big booms and nothing else, that's the way to go.

[Keld Denar]

I'd second the Warlock idea, and further toss up the idea of Dragonfire Adept. Its a really fun class and does a lot of interesting and fun things, almost all of which have damage tacked on. Check out the Dragonfire Adept Handbook on the CharOp forums for more info.

If you have your heart set on a traditional caster, I'd bump the Kobald Sorc idea. If you can use the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage, you can pull off some shanananananananananananananagans. Sorcerer can also get into Incantrix with little trouble. I'm fond of taking Draconic Heritage and Draconic Breath and using the various breath effect spells like Blinding Breath, Dispelling Breath and such. Pick a dragon with a Line effect like Copper or Blue/Black for the longer range. This also opens up Draconic Wings for (Ex) flight, which is quite useful even if your manevuerability is low.

[Tokiko Mima]

If you're looking for a blaster that makes a good trickster, strongly consider pixie warlock.

I know, normally you look at that +4 LA and go 'yuck, no thanks!' but hear me out. Pixies start off with better versions of two abilities warlocks go nuts over: flight and invisibility. They have massive ability bonuses (+8 Dex, +6 Cha) and Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, meaning your Eldritch Glaive will be based on your Dexterity and not Strength so the -4 Str penalty really doesn't mean much. You also get a host of useful SLAs, including Permanent Image 1/day.

This stacks really well with your warlock abilities, making you into a fast, stealthy weapons platform with unlimited ammunition. Later on when NPCs try to use truesight to find you, you can ruin their day with a quick dispel magic invocation. They lost a spell slot, you lose only an action. You're not extremely damaging, but your Eldritch Blast is almost guaranteed to do some damage and if you force opponents to waste time looking for you then you've already put them through more hassle than most blasters ever will.

Plus, Warlock has a nice development curve. As you hit higher levels you can take feats like Quicken SLA, Maximize SLA and Empower SLA. Use them all together for a damage wave. Use them with a wand of Divine Power and a full suite of Eldritch Glaive attacks to slay anything that isn't epic or a god.

[Douglas]

Uh, why are people suggesting Warlock in response to a request for a "more powerful character"? I thought it was common knowledge around here that Warlock is a weak class.

My suggestion: Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer with Greater Draconic Rite of Passage and Incantatrix. Lots of spells per day, casting as a Sorcerer one level above your character level (add Loredrake for another 2 levels if you're really feeling cheesy) so you're actually not behind Wizards on the spell level curve, and blasting doesn't require the kind of lengthy spell list a true batman Wizard needs. Take lots of metamagic feats, and plan to take Rapid Metamagic next level (I think that's when you can qualify). Reserve feats might also be worth looking into, as you can power any number of them with a single spell slot due to spontaneous casting and you can use Heighten Spell to make cantrips on your spells known list count as your highest level available for determining the feat's effect.

Though, um, is the monk getting the same request too? If not, why? VoP, Monk, and Githzerai are all weak choices.

[Tokiko Mima]

Uh, why are people suggesting Warlock in response to a request for a "more powerful character"? I thought it was common knowledge around here that Warlock is a weak class.

....

Though, um, is the monk getting the same request too? If not, why? VoP, Monk, and Githzerai are all weak choices.

Warlock is weak if unoptimized. Any class that can deliver 1000+ points of damage in a single round 3/day can hardly be underestimated. Warlock is disappointing out of the box, but it synergizes very well in certain cases. It's very difficult to stop a dedicated warlock from hitting you and doing damage every round since there's no DR/Eldritch and the main warlock attack has several ways to ignore SR. This makes them great for blasting things with supposedly hardened defenses, because invariably Warlocks can ignore those defenses with the right invocation.

For example an invisible warlock's attack bonus is low, but the warlock has only to roll to beat 10 + Size modifier + deflection AC and receives a +2 on the roll. So a miss is vanishingly unlikely, and this lets them focus on things that make their Eldritch Blasts even better/more damaging/less resistable.

[Temp.]

If you go Sorcerer, be aware of the PHB2's retraining section. Trading out spells known as you advance is a beautiful thing. Doing it without having to take extra Sorcerer levels is even better. Take the Metamagic Specialist class feature earlier in the book and, at level 9, take Rapid Metamagic and swap MS out for another ACF.


Also, if you don't know what to do with your spells, Evocation was the part of Treeantmonk's guide that impressed me. I can't set up a link now, but it's in the Handy Links index.

[ravenkith]

If you are going to be a blaster, Sorceror is definitely the way to go.

Some suggestions:

Prestige classes:
Incantatrix (MOF/PGTF) 10/10 - The ultimate in metamagic abuse.
Entry: 6 (Wiz), 7 (Sorc)
Advantages: Bonus Metamagic feats, metamagic oriented class abilities
Disadvantages: 2 feats for entry (Iron Will & an MM) d4 HD, 1/2 BAB, Poor FORT & REF

Fiendblooded (Heroes of Horror) 9/10- A good, all around class that is superior to base sorceror - even more so, considering your campaigns principle antagonists.
Entry: 6th level
Advantages: Improved familiar, Bonuses to multiple stats, bonuses to resistances, bonus damage,
Disadvantages: 3 feats - Blood Calls to Blood (HOH), Eschew Materials, Education (FRCS) d4 HD, 1/2 BAB, Poor FORT & REF

Mage of the Arcane Order (CArc) 10/10- Ultimate in versatility for the Sorceror - never be without that spell you need.
Entry: 6th
Advantages: Spell Pool. Read it, know it, love it. SOme bonus metamagic.
Disadvantages: d4 HD, 1 unusable class feature, 1/2 BAB, poor FORT & REF, 2-3 Feats needed (3 if sorc: Arcane Preperation, Co-Op spell, Metamagic),

Sacred Exorcist (CDiv) 10/10- Excellent filler class, Only way for Arcanists to get turn attempts, but no DMM by raw.
Entry: 11th
Advantages: 3/4 BAB, d8 HD, TURN ATTEMPTS, Various anti evil outsider class abilities
Disadvantages: 1 Feat needed: Education (FRCS) Poor FORT & REF

Abjurant Champion (CMag) 5/5 - Excellent filler if you can get it, gives you some NEAT options, and can really increase your armor class with the right spells.
Entry: Varies by strategy
Advantages: Full BAB, d10 HD, abjuration enhancements, more
Disadvantages: Poor Fort, Poor REF, 1 Feat needed: Combat Casting BAB+5 for entry, 1 Martial Weapon Pro

Then of course, there is Archmage (DMG), primarily for the ability to change touch spells into reach and shape spells for free.

Feats:
Residual Magic (CMag)
Arcane Thesis (PHB II)
Elemental Substitution (CArc) (Sonic, if you can get it. Acid or electric if you can't).
Heighten Spell (PHB)
Persistent Spell (FRCS/PGTF?)
Sculpt Spell (CArc)
Chain Spell (CArc)
Split Ray (CArc)
Empower Spell (PHB)
Arcane Mastery (CArc)
Reach Spell (CDiv?)

Spells:
DO NOT OVERLOOK THE ORB SPELLS. NO SR/NO SAVE VS. DAMAGE = WIN.

Shivering Touch (Frostburn) 1st, etc.- A chain of spells, this has a 1st level version that deals 1d6/rd per caster level with NO SAVE, just a touch attack. It allows SR, but can be combined with:

Assay Resistance (Spell Compendium) 4th - allows you to pick out a target, and if the spell succeeds, add 10 to your cl check to overcome SR. Combine with Arcane Mastery for maximum effectiveness.

Scorching Ray (PHB) 2nd - RTA, up to four attacks, with elemental sub on the fly, quite nasty.

Arcane Spellsurge (Dragon Magic) 7th - Just insane for Sorcs. When cast, forces you to cast standard action spells as swift actions, and full round action spells as standard actions. Combined with residual metamagic and a sorceror with on-the-fly metamagic, can be utterly devastating.

Disintegrate (PHB) 6th - It's a ray. Split it, empower it, residual it the following round. Mmm, ashes to ashes...

Enervation (PHB) 4th - it's a Ray. Split it, Empower it, Residual that son of a gun. 1 7th, 1 4th = Enemy caster go bye bye.

NOTE: This is by no means an exhaustive study of the combinations available out there.


I would probably go with something like:
Strongheart Halfling
1: Sorceror 1 HF: Reach Spell CH: Arcane Preperation
2: Sorceror 2
3: Sorceror 3 CH: Cooperative Spell
4: Sorceror 4
5: Sorceror 5
6: Mage of the Arcane order 1 CH: Iron Will
7: Incantatrix 1 IF: Split Ray
8: Incantatrix 2
9: Incantatrix 3 CH: Residual Magic
10: Incantatrix 4 IF: Empower Spell
11: Incantatrix 5
12: Incantatrix 6 CH: Skill Focus:
13: Incantatrix 7 IF: Chain Spell
14: Incantatrix 8
15: Incantatrix 9 CH: Spell Focus: Evocation ?
16: Incantatrix 10 IF: ?
17: Mage of the Arcane Order 2 MF: ?
18: Mage of the Arcane Order 3 CH: Spell Focus: Transmutation ?
19: Archmage 1 HA: Arcane Reach
20: Archmage 2 HA: Mastery of Shaping

There are a number of options for 16 and 17, such as lord of the utter cold, or energy admixture. Personally for a true blaster, energy admixture is probably the way to go.

If a problem rises up, just throw damage dice at it until it goes away. Or else sub out a spell using the spell pool for 1-3 :P

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Four words: Hellfire Warlock, Bind Naberous

Do you want to dish out hundreds of damage in a round? This is how you do it. You'll need a one-level dip in a Binder class, to restore Con damage from the Hellfire Warlock's abilities. There's also a neck-slot item in MIC that further increases EB damage by up to 2d6, and the Warlock's Scepter, which is a Rod that you can blow charges from to further increase EB damage.

Do you wish to be doing over 20d6 per shot, all day long? Warlock is your man. Even better, Hellfire Warlock gets around normal immunities and SR, and there are all KINDS of ways to jack up your Caster Level to render SR a moot point.

[magic9mushroom]

Warlock is weak if unoptimized. Any class that can deliver 1000+ points of damage in a single round 3/day can hardly be underestimated. Warlock is disappointing out of the box, but it synergizes very well in certain cases. It's very difficult to stop a dedicated warlock from hitting you and doing damage every round since there's no DR/Eldritch and the main warlock attack has several ways to ignore SR. This makes them great for blasting things with supposedly hardened defenses, because invariably Warlocks can ignore those defenses with the right invocation.

For example an invisible warlock's attack bonus is low, but the warlock has only to roll to beat 10 + Size modifier + deflection AC and receives a +2 on the roll. So a miss is vanishingly unlikely, and this lets them focus on things that make their Eldritch Blasts even better/more damaging/less resistable.

Mind outlining how to get 1000+ points of damage?

I can see:

Hellfire Blast 15d6
Quicken SLA = x2
Empower SLA = x1.5

That's only 30d6x1.5 though, which is average 157.

What am I missing?

[JeminiZero]

Mind outlining how to get 1000+ points of damage?

I can see:

Hellfire Blast 15d6
Quicken SLA = x2
Empower SLA = x1.5

That's only 30d6x1.5 though, which is average 157.

What am I missing?

The trick is that you are applying it to eldritch glaive (a least blast shape). Which lets you hit multiple times depending on your iterative attack BAB as melee touch attacks. Lets say you cast Divine Power via UMD so that your BAB is at least 16, a single eldritch glaive now attacks (and usually hits) the enemy 4x.

Beyond that it becomes subject to rules intepretation. There is debate on whether you can quicken Eldritch Glaive (so you can hit 4x as a swift action). There is also the question on whether things that grant you extra attacks (like haste) apply to eldritch glaive (so if you are hasted you can get 5 attacks). Finally, because Eldritch Glaive is a 2-hander weapon-like spell, some quarters argue that you can apply 1.5x strength bonus and double power attack damage to it (and since its a touch attacks, a high power attack bonus can be applied without jeapordizing your hit chance too badly).

[Ire]

Go either with sorcerer (Spellscale) or Arcane Trickster.

At level 17ish my AT puts out 400 damage a round and is nearly impossible to see/find/attack without blindsense.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The trick is that you are applying it to eldritch glaive (a least blast shape). Which lets you hit multiple times depending on your iterative attack BAB as melee touch attacks. Lets say you cast Divine Power via UMD so that your BAB is at least 16, a single eldritch glaive now attacks (and usually hits) the enemy 4x.

Beyond that it becomes subject to rules intepretation. There is debate on whether you can quicken Eldritch Glaive (so you can hit 4x as a swift action). There is also the question on whether things that grant you extra attacks (like haste) apply to eldritch glaive (so if you are hasted you can get 5 attacks). Finally, because Eldritch Glaive is a 2-hander weapon-like spell, some quarters argue that you can apply 1.5x strength bonus and double power attack damage to it (and since its a touch attacks, a high power attack bonus can be applied without jeapordizing your hit chance too badly).

Right now, somewhere in the world, an Evoker is crying.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

What was your old character, maybe there's a way to fix him without having to roll a new one.

It's probably not what you're looking for, but an Illusionist/ Shadowcraft Mage makes a superb spontaneous blaster. Throw around a Shadow Evocation or Conjuration of whatever damage spell you need at the time, with a significantly higher caster level and DC than the non-shadow version. If you can qualify early via Earth Spell then you can start out with Shadow Illusion at level 8, otherwise you'd be best off going Illusionist 3/ Master Specialist 4/ Shadowcraft Mage 1 from the start.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Ahh sorry for not being a bit more clear. I'm aware of the conjuration spells I'm just not really looking into playing batman, I've played many very effectively, but would like to try the suboptimal blaster albeit an optimized arcane blaster.

I understand that you don't want to play the battlefield control/buff/debuff style arcanist, but orb spells are no-save, no-SR blasts. Preparing at least a few of them fits perfectly into a blaster concept and solves your SR problem. That doesn't mean that, with Incantatrix, you won't be chucking around empowered explosive maximized yadda yadda sonic balls from 0 level spell slots most of the time, but for those times that you need to hurt Mr. High SR you'll really want those orbs.

[Arcane_Snowman]

Mind outlining how to get 1000+ points of damage?

I can see:

Hellfire Blast 15d6
Quicken SLA = x2
Empower SLA = x1.5

That's only 30d6x1.5 though, which is average 157.

What am I missing?

You're also forgetting bloodlines, the way Hellfire Warlock is worded, you'd end up getting +12d6 in total for a maximum of 21d6.

Quicken Empowered Vitriolic Hellfire Blast = 21d6 ~ 73.5
Full-Round Attack Empowered Hellfire Vitriolic Eldritch Glaive (with Divine Power) = 4x 21d6x1.5 = 441.
Total = 514 dmg per round. Not too shabby.

[NeoVid]

Four words: Hellfire Warlock, Bind Naberous

Do you want to dish out hundreds of damage in a round? This is how you do it. You'll need a one-level dip in a Binder class, to restore Con damage from the Hellfire Warlock's abilities.

You can pull this same dirty trick by burning a feat instead of a level, taking the Incarnum ability Strongheart Vest, which lets you reduce all Con damage you take by one.

[magic9mushroom]

You can pull this same dirty trick by burning a feat instead of a level, taking the Incarnum ability Strongheart Vest, which lets you reduce all Con damage you take by one.

Doesn't work. If you have any way around the Con damage the ability won't activate. You have to take the Con damage. Healing it is therefore the only way out.

[Drascin]

You want simple and fun blasting without worry about optimization, you want Psionics. I'm not kidding here. With the ability to modulate your damage and element on a whim, it's far more entertaining and efficient, and lets you blast as well as a dedicated sorcerer with only a handful of powers, letting you actually have some left for whatever the hell else you want.

And if your DM allows you to use third party material, you have the Energist as a prestige class. Mix-and-matching energy types is always fun (so I can mix heat and electricity and throw blasts of plasma? I don't think physics work that way, but I absolutely don't care!)

[NeoVid]

Doesn't work. If you have any way around the Con damage the ability won't activate. You have to take the Con damage. Healing it is therefore the only way out.

Damn. I thought the Hellfire abilities were only shut down by being immune to Con damage, or having no Con score.

[Arcane_Snowman]

Damn. I thought the Hellfire abilities were only shut down by being immune to Con damage, or having no Con score.

Actually you are correct, Hellfireblast states that if you are immune to Con damage or have no Con score it's impossible.

Whether or not Strongheart Vestment is something that is allowed to reduce the damage is something we can argue until were blue and purple in our heads, but fact of the matter is that it's a DM's call.

[kalt]

Actually you are correct, Hellfireblast states that if you are immune to Con damage or have no Con score it's impossible.

Whether or not Strongheart Vestment is something that is allowed to reduce the damage is something we can argue until were blue and purple in our heads, but fact of the matter is that it's a DM's call.

to this just pick up a level of binder bind nerberus, who heals one point of con damage a round and profit. Ohh someone already pointed it out...I'm not sure how this can be ruled against because you aren't preventing the damage just merely healing it every round.

[kalt]

would probably go with something like:
Strongheart Halfling
1: Sorceror 1 HF: Reach Spell CH: Arcane Preperation
2: Sorceror 2
3: Sorceror 3 CH: Cooperative Spell
4: Sorceror 4
5: Sorceror 5
6: Mage of the Arcane order 1 CH: Iron Will
7: Incantatrix 1 IF: Split Ray
8: Incantatrix 2
9: Incantatrix 3 CH: Residual Magic
10: Incantatrix 4 IF: Empower Spell
11: Incantatrix 5
12: Incantatrix 6 CH: Skill Focus:
13: Incantatrix 7 IF: Chain Spell
14: Incantatrix 8
15: Incantatrix 9 CH: Spell Focus: Evocation ?
16: Incantatrix 10 IF: ?
17: Mage of the Arcane Order 2 MF: ?
18: Mage of the Arcane Order 3 CH: Spell Focus: Transmutation ?
19: Archmage 1 HA: Arcane Reach
20: Archmage 2 HA: Mastery of Shaping

I really appreciate this build thank you very much. One thing that I think will really help out for this build is a wand of true casting (Complete Mage I believe). The warlock idea was good, but I think I still might need atleast a little versatility since the only people with a somewhat decent spell list will be myself and the cleric. I'm not familiar with the feat arcane preparation what does that do? The idea of spell pool is great and I will most certainly go with that for the cost of cooperative spell. This is actually a pathfinder campaign so I will have a sorceror bloodline to add on to that so all should be good.

[Douglas]

Arcane Preparation lets you prepare spells like a wizard does. The spell still has to come from your spells known, not a spellbook, and it loses the spontaneous flexibility of normal Sorcerer casting, but if you prepare a metamagiced spell it will ignore the casting time increase of spontaneous metamagic. It also allows a Sorcerer to satisfy the specific prerequisite of Mage of the Arcane Order of the ability to prepare and cast X level spells.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Don't spend a feat on Iron Will, visit the Otyugh Hole in Complete Scoundrel instead.