how "cursed" should "cursed" items be?

[krossbow]

Hey, was wondering what people's thoughts on this was?

In a campaign i've been running, the PC's have developed a taste for plundering cursed items.

They've been playing a interesting game of log rolling, carefully researching such items to find out which ones have side effects semi-controllable or worth the risk in order to reap the powers that some of them have.



However, i've started to worry that some of the cursed items aren't really seeming "cursed" so much as "mildly dusty and painted black". One of the old standbys were items that corrupted their wielder degrading their alignment. However, this has become old hat to them, and they didn't really seem too put off when they had to kill one of their characters that turned chaotic evil from an item.
Hell, they almost ended up killing themselves and everyone in a treasure caravan via a cursed item, and they simply thought it was the best random encounter in campaign.





Since the players have really seemed to enjoy the idea of playing with fire and the thrill of gambling with such items, i'm trying to find a fine balance between having them have useful powers and also being reasonably dangerous and "cursed".





How much negative abilities must an item have to qualify as cursed would you say?

[Prometheus]

Give them a couple of items that may seem cursed, but can be put to good use if used intelligently. Than their experimentation will pay off.

Also give them a couple of items that are not only cursing, but irritatingly so. Give them boxing gloves that don't come off (penalty to everything with hands), a rod that generates a rain cloud that pours on the characters head all the time even in doors (exhaustion, no flames, encumberance, concentration), a dagger-sheaf which is really a construct-leech while causes Con loss until it is cut off (or it drains a predetermined amount, or a talking skull that constantly mock the first character that touches it. These items will be comical, but they will also remind the characters that sometimes cursed items are not to be meddled with.

[arguskos]

What Prometheus said. However, if they continue to persist in using obviously cursed and dangerous items, then feel free to use some really truly diabolical ones. I can send you a few if you wish. Just PM me if you're interested.

[Occasional Sage]

What Prometheus said. However, if they continue to persist in using obviously cursed and dangerous items, then feel free to use some really truly diabolical ones. I can send you a few if you wish. Just PM me if you're interested.

If there's a limit to how far their research can go, and the possibility of hiding some cursed effects, hilarity ensues.

[arguskos]

If there's a limit to how far their research can go, and the possibility of hiding some cursed effects, hilarity ensues.

Indeed. I actually did this to some players once, and hit them with a beast of an item that reinforced the idea that sometimes, cursed items are shunned for a REASON. Of course, we all remember that as the "OMGGETITAWAYFROMME" session, and have a good laugh about it now.

[trehek]

I suppose it depends on how much you like them playing with cursed items like this. If you don't like it you can hit them with something that's way over their head. If you like it, you can give them some less dangerous, barely cursed items along with the average ones.

To give them a challenge and a taste of the danger involved (big quest wink wink?) throw in some really nasty item, but make it somehow obvious that it is nasty. Give them a chance to try and keep it locked up somewhere safe while researching it properly to find out what they're dealing with. If they're not careful enough, punish them! If they do things well, let them get rid of it or use it as the sort of power they're always been looking for, but always keep some kind of cost/danger aspect present to stay in the feel. If they want it they must either be constantly vigilant or sacrifice something (or someone) for their power.

[Jack_Simth]

A Monkey idol that grants a Wish.

Catch:
It doesn't grant you YOUR wish. It grants you the Wish of the previous Wisher. And it does the monkey-paw thing to them, vanishing after bestowing it's "boon", never to be seen again.

That is, you hand the thing to the most rules-lawyery person in the group, and he makes a fool-proof wish... and ends up as an extremely attractive female gnome, for whom every male within eyeshot must make a Will save to avoid hitting on ... because the last person who made a Wish on it was a female gnome who felt unattractive. Or whatever wish your twisted mind can dream up that someone, somewhere, might reasonably say.

Edit:
Mostly, though, Cursed items should have some semblance of a reason for their existence. Some will be deliberate traps (a Vaccuous Gramoire in a shelf of legitimate books, for instance), others will be security features - requirements designed so it only works for one person, punishment if anyone other than the intended picks it up, security features so that it can't be used by people not belonging to a particular organization, and so on. Some will be attempts at immortality; others, subtle "gifts" intended to bring ruin to the recipient (less common, usually politically motivated). How cursed they are is, of necessity, based on the reason the item was created.

A few examples:
A Cloak of Charisma that turns the wearer female. Why? It was a gift from a Wizard to his beloved wife. It's not intended for anyone else's use, and the Wizard was of the opinion that most thieves would be male. Utterly harmless to his wife, rather annoying for crooks.
A Sword that is +5 in the hands of a worshiper of [insert deity here], and gains the Backbiting property when in the hands of anyone who does not worship [insert deity here]. Why? It was crafted by the clergy of [insert deity here] for use in a holy war, and they knew some of them would fall into the hands of "the infidels". Sure, the war is six centuries over, but some of those weapons are still running around.
A ring of Deflection that happens to be a permanent Magic Jar. The Wizard who made it made it to avoid dying of old age, and can posses anyone near the ring (but usually avoids posessing the bearer, just to throw off the scent).

[Nohwl]

that monkey idol one is awesome.

[krossbow]

I'm just worried that the PC's are viewing cursed items as magical grab bags rather than truly threatening items. Hell, they stopped seeking out normal magical items based on the view that cursed items are "more powerful".



So far they've shrugged off the collateral damage of 12 NPCs murdered in a nightmare world by a demon they unleashed, one of the PC's going insane and having to be killed (thanks to an artifact weapon which needed to be fed souls daily), and one of the PC's eyes being turned pitch black.


What type of curses do you think would seem appropriate to use to try and instill a sense of forboding and caution in such a situation? (the alignments in the current situation are 1 chaotic neutral, 1 true neutral and 1 chaotic good, so appeals to law are wasted so far)





(edit: I think i'll use that monkey paw one next, that should do a fairly good job of crimping the chaotic neutral one's style)

[Jack_Simth]

I'm just worried that the PC's are viewing cursed items as magical grab bags rather than truly threatening items. Hell, they stopped seeking out normal magical items based on the view that cursed items are "more powerful".



So far they've shrugged off the collateral damage of 12 NPCs murdered in a nightmare world by a demon they unleashed, one of the PC's going insane and having to be killed (thanks to an artifact weapon which needed to be fed souls daily), and one of the PC's eyes being turned pitch black.


What type of curses do you think would seem appropriate to use to try and instill a sense of forboding and caution in such a situation? (the alignments in the current situation are 1 chaotic neutral, 1 true neutral and 1 chaotic good, so appeals to law are wasted so far)

Oh. You're after the "trap" types, not the "drawback" types you've been using. You want requirements that make the items virtually useless (e.g., only works for female elves named "Alice"), immediate trap items (the sword that latches on and starts con-draining you), and the like.

(edit: I think i'll use that monkey paw one next, that should do a fairly good job of crimping the chaotic neutral one's style)

Cool.

[Xuincherguixe]

If you want to scare them with cursed items...

Really what you should do is just build it up. Have lots of freakish occurrences.

Dogs suddenly barking at them, A bird dropping out of the sky in front of them dead, mirrors breaking when they look at them. Occasionally finding a severed arm in front of them. A strange symbol that keeps showing up. Have a lot of weirdness.

This should go on over several sessions, through several dungeons.

If you're a real jerk, the curse could be something in which they slowly vanish from existence, with no escape. But that'd be pretty lame.

Instead, until they break it, just something hideously nasty. Like their arms falling off.

[lsfreak]

Well, if they're used to cursed items being somehow useful, make sure at least some aren't. Maybe not even useless, but downright dangerous. A ring that makes you auto-fail on any saves (a "present" to a noble to allow someone to easily control them), an armor suit that makes any attack against it a critical threat (an evil prankster cleric), that cloak that simply kills you outright when you put it on (a "trap" against thieves in a wizard's home). If this still doesn't get the result you're looking for, just stop including cursed items.

[Raven777]

I suggest the use of the Head of Vecna.

[TheThan]

Like someone else said, make some of them not useful or downright annoying or dangerous. They’ll get the idea that some things are just not to be tampered with.

Another idea is to simply make cursed items that are not worth the cost of keeping the items. For instance an item that attracts monsters.


In fact, here’s such an item for you to use.

Spoiler

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Sir Barton the demon slayer’s training sword

This sword has a serrated blade. The guard is an eye, inlaid with a silver-colored material, with the blade through the pupil. Its grip is of a light wood with a pattern made of waves and triangles stained into it. The pommel is shaped like a a skull with a peridot in its mouth.

Whenever this sword is drawn it magically summons 1d6 demons, the type of demon is highly dependant on the character’s level. These demons automatically attacks the wearer, when slain they do not reward experience nor do they leave any gear, or loot behind.
This is a +5 sword.

Level 1–3 Dretch
Level 4-8 babau
Level 9-12 Bebilith
Level 13-15 Glabrezu
Level 16-18 Marilith
Level 19+ Balor

[Tubercular Ox]

You have to understand their motivations. They sound rather covetous. Give them an item that takes that away:

An item that gives them all the effects of Vow of Poverty (or, tone it down)... but slowly perverts their soul so that they become charitable. They start giving away items and gold, volunteering for nigh hopeless quests, find themselves completely unable to lie or do anything but engage in honorable combat. Basically, it makes them lawful stupid. If they're still hanging onto it, start picking their Exalted feats for them as they gain in levels. Throw enough sacred Vows on them, that they are magically compelled to follow, and they'll buckle eventually.

It'll be fun to see if they decide to murder that character, too. Or if they try to shun him. But of course the ensorceled character would never abandon his friends, right?

As an aside, I am completely against the interpretation of LG as "Lawful Stupid," I feel there's a lot of leeway and subtlety in that alignment or any other alignment, but it has its use here.

[MammonAzrael]

I suggest the use of the Head of Vecna.

QFT.

Also, what is the alignment of this party? It shouldn't have any lawful or good characters at this point. If they continue to mess with cursed items to the detriment of the NPCs around them, start sending celestial forces to kill them.

And then so they don't feel totally ganked, have their souls forged into a cursed item for future generations to stumble upon and avoid.

As for other items...

• Something that can cast teleport on command, but has a mishap rate of 90%.
• An item that forcibly changes their alignment to Lawful Good and can't be removed (ala girdle of masculinity/femininity)
• Something that lets them use a 2ed psionic Disintegrate style effect. can cast Disintegrate at will, and every time they do, they have a 30+% chance of targeting themselves (and they don't get a save).
• Items with Egos.
• A Bag of Devouring with a beefed up grapple check.

[holywhippet]

My DM pulled out a nasty cursed item for one of his groups. It was D&D 3.0 and he gave them a ring which could cast augury an unlimited number of times. The catch is, the ring had an enchantment which would allow their current location to be discerned magically no matter what countermeasure they had in place. Identify in 3.0 only reveals the lowest level of enchantment which was the augury spell. Their enemy, a ghost sorceress, had arranged for them to have the ring in order to keep tabs on what they were doing (they were looking for ways to end her permanently).

A nasty item you could give the players is something that automatically casts create undead (or a greater varient) when it has been within a certain distance of a corpse for a certain amount of time. So if the players stay in a town, the local cemetary starts spitting out undead. The item would be semi-sentient, it wants to reach a temple of the god who made it so it keeps calling in undead which it can control.

[Hawriel]

Your players are playing with fire. Burn them.

[rampaging-poet]

If the idea is to scare them away from cursed items, you may wish to try the Bluffstone or (if you're comfortable with such things) the Sword of Dragon Laying +4, both of which can be found in this post by Nani? on the Wizards boards. The thread it's in has some other nice cursed items, but most of them are mere annoyances.
The old 1001 1001 Threads thread linked to a couple of threads about cursed items, but it's been archived so you have to copy/paste the links instead of just clicking on them.

Also, though I don't know where any of them are, I do know that a number of threads asking for cursed items have come up on this board before. A careful search should cause a few to turn up.

As for the general question of how cursed such an item should be, it really depends on the reason for its creation. Items with a drawback or requirement shouldn't be all that bad, as they're likely safety features or defects. However, be as nasty as you can with deliberate traps. When one invests the time and energy required to create an item to corrupt or destroy anyone foolish enough to pick it up, one tends to ensure that it can do the job fairly well.

Ooh, random thought! An item that works just fine, but curses, polymorphs, or disintegrates anyone who tries to identify it! It's a little mean, but it works.

[holywhippet]

Hmm, I can't remember if I saw it here or on the Kenzerco forums, but the idea was to have the players find a sword. When one of them picks up the sword and pulls it from the scabbard they will find their name engraved on it. That is the swords only power - to show the name of the person who drew it from the scabbard.

[Ascension]

If what they want to do is to mess around with horrifically cursed items... I say let them. Build a whole campaign around it. Say that news of their exploits has spread and they've become legendary, even if falsely so, for their ability to seal dangerous magic items. Have nobles seek them out as damage control experts, sending them in to deal with the nastiest evil items in the land. Use their natural proclivities to make them heroes, whether they like it or not.

[Tubercular Ox]

If what they want to do is to mess around with horrifically cursed items... I say let them. Build a whole campaign around it. Say that news of their exploits has spread and they've become legendary, even if falsely so, for their ability to seal dangerous magic items. Have nobles seek them out as damage control experts, sending them in to deal with the nastiest evil items in the land. Use their natural proclivities to make them heroes, whether they like it or not.

Genius. Much better than my idea.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The Loyal Sword
This sword was created as a punishment for unfaithful mercenaries of a nation some thousand years dead, but they still exist.

The only way to obtain a Loyal Sword is to either a) steal it, or b) pry it from the dead hands of it's former owner. It cannot be sold, traded, or given away.

The Loyal Sword is a -3 Greatsword of Fatigue and Glowing. This sword glows like a Lantern, and cannot be convinced to stop glowing. Any attempt to make a Charge, or otherwise run will result in Fatiguing the wielder, at no save. But the worst part of the sword is that you can never be rid of it.

You see, because the Mercenaries were unfaithful, the ruler who ordered them made decided to make a point of loyalty. So at any time after obtaining one of these blades that you attempt to draw any other weapon or item, the Loyal Sword is instead drawn. It doesn't matter if you dropped it into a black hole, or into an Umbral Blot, or into a gate to another dimension. It doesn't matter if you tried to give it away. It somehow lets merchants know that this sword is not for sale, and no merchant will willingly buy it. This is considered to be a Mind-Affecting ability that counters and supersedes any and all other mind-affecting abilities which might tempt the Merchant to buy it (including, but not limited to, Charm Person/Monster, Dominate Person/Monster, and Suggestion). This is considered to be an Epic Magic effect that cannot be suppressed by any means.

As an Epic Magic item, it very strongly radiates magic, and always glows brightly to make sure everyone knows that it is a magic blade. This has the side effect of negating any Cover or Concealment except Total. This also ruins any Displacement or Mirror Image effect, because the sword itself is not duplicated in the illusionary selves.

Also, as an Epic Magic Item, it will not go away. Dispel Magic won't work. Neither will Break Enchantment, Remove Curse. Not even Wish or Miracle will budge this stubborn blade in the slightest. Disjunction treats this item as an Artifact. The ONLY two ways to get this sword to leave is to either a) have it stolen from your person, or b) have it pried out of your cold, dead hands.

[Occasional Sage]

Billions of years ago I was playing Shadowrun, and encountered a "cursed magic item" that had several people fighting over it despite its effects. Let me see if I can roughly translate it into D&D terms:

Spoiler

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Marilar's Ring

When worn, this ring adds two to the wearer's caster level for all spells cast. It also adds three spell slots, which can be divided among any spell levels the wearer can cast and can be re-apportioned every dawn.

The ring is, however, hideously debilitating. Every day that it is worn, one point is removed from each of the caster's physical statistics. These lost points cannot be regained by any magical means; if the ring is willingly removed by the wearer they return at a rate of one point of each statistic, per week. If the ring is forcibly removed, the drain will continue for two additional weeks, followed by two more weeks of no effect, before the regaining begins.

Marilar's Ring is also addictive. The wearer is unable to see the negative effects of the ring; spells cast by the wearer to detect or confirm these drains, such as Detect Truth, will return false results if necessary to maintain the wearer's delusion.

Further, there is a DC 20 Will save made when the Ring is first put on; if it is failed, the wearer will not remove the Ring for any reason, and will view any attempt to take it as an attack on their person, to be met will lethal force. Merely trying to convince the wearer to part with the Ring, even for a short time, will be met with extreme suspicion and hostility (obviously, Sense Motive and the like will lie to the wearer to ensure this). The Will save is repeated daily, with a cumulative +5 to the DC, until a check is failed.

If the Ring is somehow parted from a person who has failed the Will save, they will do anything and everything in their power to recover it, including killing any individual who attempts to stop them.

Regaining half of each physical statistic ends the addiction effect and the compulsion to regain the Ring.

Obviously I'm roughing in the stats; beef it up as necessary, but make the drawbacks BAD. What you're looking for is a Ring of Ultimate Arcane Power, with the physical and mental side effects of serious drug addiction. Interparty fights, both verbal and physical, should ensue. Don't let them cheese their way out of it, this should be a grueling ordeal that a quick spell can't fix. One death from something like this would be getting off light.

[krossbow]

Also, as an Epic Magic Item, it will not go away. Dispel Magic won't work. Neither will Break Enchantment, Remove Curse. Not even Wish or Miracle will budge this stubborn blade in the slightest. Disjunction treats this item as an Artifact. The ONLY two ways to get this sword to leave is to either a) have it stolen from your person, or b) have it pried out of your cold, dead hands.

Forgive me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't the PC's still be able to enter an anti-magic field (in most settings there are a few permanent ones sitting around usually) and just drop the blade? it shouldn't be able to utilize its magic to escape at that point.

[Rockphed]

Forgive me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't the PC's still be able to enter an anti-magic field (in most settings there are a few permanent ones sitting around usually) and just drop the blade? it shouldn't be able to utilize its magic to escape at that point.

I beleive that the implication is that the sword enchants all of your stuff, so you would have to ditch it all to actually get rid of it in that fashion.

[Lycanthromancer]

Gah. Stupid board delays/double posts.

This is the worst website I've ever visited for server overload.

[Lycanthromancer]

I always did like the idea of a 'cursed item' that wasn't really cursed, but had practical applications. See the dust of sneezing and choking for details. However, this is likely the exact kind of thing your players want (not that there's anything wrong with it).

You could also have the 'curse' be that the item in question (a holy artifact, maybe the focus of an important struggle between the planar forces of good/evil/law/chaos) is the phylactery of some horrific partly incorporeal undead monstrosity. Say, some epic-level abomination. It's billed as the item's 'guardian,' which the players have the single-use macguffin to slay. However, on the way back...

Maybe have it cling to the 'chosen one,' such that he cannot be rid of it. He can run, he can hide, but the monstrosity will constantly be on the prowl for it. The sword is mildly powerful (maybe similar to an item familiar or ancestral relic, that drains XP from the wielder to power it), but it compels the wielder to seek out and destroy evil. The stronger the character, the stronger the evil that must be vanquished. And the higher level s/he gets, the more s/he is compelled to slay the creature that came from the sword. Of course, should someone kill the creature, guess where it's gonna return PDQ?

Perhaps the only way to kill the monster is to destroy the sword, and the only way to destroy the sword is something that would seriously put a cramp in the wielder's style - like dying while fighting the strongest Evil critter in all the planes.

Could make for an interesting rest-of-the-campaign, for sure.

[dspeyer]

How about a weapon of create undead? Forged by a necromancer with enough rebuking power to yield it effectively, it raises any living creature it slays as a 'random' type of undead.

The first few times they use it, roll a die and give them a skeleton on odd and a zombie on even. Then, once they're complacent give them a multiply-evolved vampire who takes the weapon and becomes the new BBEG.

[Dhavaer]

Forgive me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't the PC's still be able to enter an anti-magic field (in most settings there are a few permanent ones sitting around usually) and just drop the blade? it shouldn't be able to utilize its magic to escape at that point.

It's Epic. Epic magic isn't always affected by anti-magic.