DnD 4e Warlock

[theonesin]

After my character died in the current campaign, and I decided I wanted to play a Warlock, the DM asks if we want to play a 4e campaign instead, and I'm thinking of sticking to playing a Warlock. I'm not too familiar with it though, so I'm looking for advice on how to make one.

We're starting at level 10 and are given 10,000GP and we can have 2 items that add up to level 10 and any +2 armor we can get.

[Asbestos]

That's a bizzaro starting package...

Well, what are you looking for in your Warlock?

[kieza]

I don't have too much experience making characters, but the gist of the Warlock is this:

--Infernal Pact gives you higher defenses and temp hitpoints.
--Fey Pact gives you more evasive ability.
--Star Pact gives you abilities that inflict negative conditions.

You can choose any powers from the Warlock's list, not just the ones from your pact, but they tend to run on different primary stats. (Con for infernal, Cha for fey, both for star.)

The one warlock that was in a campaign I ran was fey pact, and while he was fragile, he also did lots of damage. He had a fun trick at level 6 which was to wait until the fighter was in the middle of the enemy, use Fey Switch (Level 6 utility, switch places with ally) and Otherwind Stride (Level 3 encounter, attack vs. every target in close burst 1, then teleport out). He wound up doing decent damage to multiple targets, and ended several squares away.

EDIT: Yes, that is bizarre starting equipment. Normal for level 10 is 3 items of your choice, of maximum levels 9, 10, and 11, and about 5000 gold.

[theonesin]

I've been looking at different threads online, and I'm definitely looking at being a Star Pact Warlock, either Half-Elf or Tiefling race. The DM has approved of other sources like the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, which opens up the Dark Pact for use, as well as Dragon 366, which has a Paragon feat that allows Tiefling warlocks to gain a second Pact. I'm not sure which other Pact would go well with Star though.

[Tiki Snakes]

Flavourwise, if it's any help deciding -

The Fey pact has you serving either some kind of 'Archfey', the feywild's equivelant of a demon prince, a powerful and whimsical entity that could be anything from a powerful eldarin to an amorphous nature spirit. Trickery, deception, and dangerous charm.

The Infernal Pact is probably the 'classic' pact. A dark deal putting an Infernal being as your patron. Fire and brimstone, and very much about the whole unnerving and violent side of sinister. I say classic, because it is basically the type of pact that the original Tiefling pact is implied to be, a pact with a devil or devils.

The Star Pact is an interesting one, being as it is often much more indirect. It is all about having made bargains or so on with impossible Elder Beings (Probably from the Far Realm) or having tapped the power of such entities via the true names of insane stars, cold and distant. It's about dread words and hideous lovecraftian prophesy. Madness and Fear.

And then there's the Dark Pact, which I know nothing about and is largely irrelevant unless you're playing the 4th ed forgotten realms, which is where it's detailed. :) Possibly a demonic themed pact? It certainly gives you some way to 'feed' off of the energies of Death, etc.


For my money, the flavour implied by the pact is as important, if not more so, than the actual stats and abilities it gives you. I'd say there's plenty of room for reflavouring, of course.

[edit - Ninja'd by the OP. Har!]

[NecroRebel]

As far as equipment goes, you're going to want at least leather armor, or pick up Hide Proficiency if you're going Infernalock and have the Str for it. Warlocks in general tend to be relatively fragile even in comparison with Wizards or other Strikers because they don't have an AC-boosting stat as a primary, so getting the best armor you can helps your survivability a lot.

You can buy a Magic Rod +3 for 9000gp. This is actually a pretty good investment for you, as while it limits your other item choices you then have more reliable hit rates and higher damage. If you don't go for this, do count on spending at least 6 of your item levels or 1800gp on a +2 rod. Anything less will start to eat into your expected hit rate, which for a striker is a bad thing.

Another thing you should put high priority on is an amulet, cape, or other neckpiece +2, to aid your survivability more. This will mean, again, 6 levels or 1800 gp.

For spending your gold, either invest everything in one huge item like the aforementioned +3 Magic Rod or several smaller items. In the latter case, anything over level 8 is probably too expensive. Amulets and implements should be no lower than 6, as that's the cutoff for +2. Anything and everything else, though, you should look for useful abilities at any level. Remember, there's no penalty for having level 1 items at level 10, and they're dirt cheap for you to boot! Having a half-dozen low-level magic items, particularly ones which don't require a daily item use to make use of, can increase your versatility dramatically.



As far as powers go, it's very difficult to go wrong as long as you stay within one primary attack stat. This does mean that the Star pact is somewhat weaker than the others, as it is often impossible to both take advantage of the pact bonuses and have no off-stat attacks, but the others are relatively easy to manage. Also, do pay attention to cross-pact powers when you're choosing them, particularly utilities, as sometimes there is a power in another pact that is strictly better than ones in your pact.

It is possible to manage 2 primary attack stats, mind you, but it's somewhat more difficult, you'll likely have lower hit% (+1 to hit means a lot when you're only hitting 50% of the time), and the secondary effects of powers keyed off of pacts usually reference Intelligence, which you generally have to sacrifice to keep 2 primaries up.

[Asbestos]

And then there's the Dark Pact, which I know nothing about and is largely irrelevant unless you're playing the 4th ed forgotten realms, which is where it's detailed. :) Possibly a demonic themed pact? It certainly gives you some way to 'feed' off of the energies of Death, etc.

No reason Dark Pact couldn't be adapted for non-FR settings.

Dark Pact is poison/necrotic/psychic damage heavy, so if you go up against undead a lot, you might be regretting your pact decision. However, its Pact Boon let's it lay down a decent amount of hurt, and some spells can be a huge source of damage if your party is willing to take a little bit of damage to help you boost them.

Dark Pact might go decent with Star Pact, mechanically any pact does thanks to the MADness of Star Pact, but since Dark Pact also involves faceless horrors it fits with flavor a bit too.

[Asbestos]

As far as equipment goes, you're going to want at least leather armor, or pick up Hide Proficiency if you're going Infernalock and have the Str for it. Warlocks in general tend to be relatively fragile even in comparison with Wizards or other Strikers because they don't have an AC-boosting stat as a primary, so getting the best armor you can helps your survivability a lot.

Warlocks are less fragile than people think since they can easily have concealment every round.

[theonesin]

Hmm... Due to how much it needs those two stats, I'm thinking that I'll go with Half-Elf with the Star Pact. Reading up more on it, I don't think I'm too fond of the Dark Pact's Pact Boon.

[Jokes]

Also, Twofold Pact no longer requires Tiefling, according to the Compendium. In the magazine, the prerequisites allowed for any tiefling to multiclass to warlock and pick up a new at will power. It now only requires "11th Level, Eldritch Pact class feature."

[theonesin]

Compendium? What is that exactly?

[NecroRebel]

Warlocks are less fragile than people think since they can easily have concealment every round.

Less fragile than people think perhaps, but still fragile. Given 14 Int at level 1 puts them equal to an 18 Dex Rogue in Leather or 16 Dex Ranger with Hide and only 2 ahead of an 18 Int Wizard (who might well pick up leather proficiency as well). The Rogue and Wizard, at least, will be putting every stat boost into their primary attack stat, which will in turn improve AC. The same is more likely true of the Warlock's secondary (or tertiary in case of Starlocks), which causes their AC to drop behind.

Other defenses they're consistently on par or ahead on due to the attack penalty concealment gives. And of course this all assumes that the warlocks can move 3 every turn. Immobilizing, slowing, stunning, dazing, grabbing, or surrounding the warlock thus also significantly penalizes their defense more than anyone else (though the last they're also usually better equipped to escape). Further, this means they can't gain additional benefits from concealment like everyone else (also of note is the 18th level feet slot item, Phantom Chaussures, which grant the same ability as Warlocks have, and the 27th level ring, Shadow Band, which grants concealment perpetually; both from the Adventurer's Vault).

Edit:

Compendium? What is that exactly?

The Dragon Compendium. Dragon Magazine is a magazine published by WotC and over the months and years has held a massive amount of extra material for WotC products, including D&D. The Compendium is a book in which much of this extra material is collected and reprinted for easier reference, and includes errata and such on said material.

[Jokes]

Compendium? What is that exactly?

http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/co.../database.aspx

A lot of it requires a DDI subscription, but it has all the up to date information on classes, feats etc. I don't know why Twofold Pact isn't available free, since it was in a free edition

Twofold Pact was also changed in the compilation for 366.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Wow, that's some weird requirements - does your DM know about the suggestions for equipping high-level characters in the DMG? It usually goes 1 item of LV+1, 1 item of LV, 1 item of LV-1, and gold equivalent to LV-1.

Anyhoo, let's see what we can do with this.

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STATS

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What kind of stat generator are you using - Standard Array or point buy? Either way, you're going to be very MAD unless you decide to specialize in CON or CHA; you can take Encounter, Utility and Daily powers which are not of your pact so this is quite doable.

A side effect of MAD is that you probably won't have a free 13 to throw into STR for armor feats. If you're willing to hang back a bit, your low armor isn't going to matter that much, but for a more in-your-face Warlock, Light Shield and Hide proficiencies are pretty key.

POWERS

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For the Starlock, there are lots of possibilities, but here are some I've thought up:
- Mind Crush: this build specializes in attacks that lower Will defenses and then uses Will-based attacks that control his opponents. This is a CHA focused build, using a mixture of Star and Fey pact powers.
- Chessmaster: this build specializes in powers that move and immobilize enemies, mixed in with some nasty zones that he can move folks into. This is a CON focused build, using a mixture of Stat and Infernal pact powers.

Sadly, multiclassing looks pretty bad for you. You could MC Paladin, but since you don't have a good melee weapon (and aren't built for such things) it's not such a hot choice.

MAGIC ITEMS

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Since you're not going to qualify for Hide, let's look at leather armors. Now, I've always been a fan of Deathcut Leather, 'cause it gives Resist Fire and Resist Necrotic (handy!) and has a Daily that allows you zap someone who hit you in melee with 1d10+CHA Necrotic damage. Sylvan Leather ain't bad if you plan on sneaking around and climbing things a lot, but in general, I'd pass.

If you have access to Adventurer's Vault, pick something cheesy out of it

For your two items, I'd go with Amulet of Health +2 (Resist Poison 5 FTW) or some other LV 8 item and a Belt of Vigor (LV 2). It's the best LV 2 item out there, and there aren't that many low-level items that are worth stacking up on.

Now, for the 10K gold. First, I'd recommend the Rod of Reaving +2 (5K) AKA Rod of Minion Killing; killing minions as a minor action (and getting your Pact Boon!) is just good.

Your remaining 5K can go into:
- Catstep Boots (half falling damage for 680 gold? Yes please!)
- Bag of Holding [1K] (if your DM cares about storage capacity)
- Bracers of Perfect Shot [0.68K] (+2 damage on your Eldrich Blast)
- Gauntlets of Piercing [0.68K] (particularly useful for the Chessmaster build)

or

- Rope of Climbing [5K] (it's pretty sweet )

Another way you could go is to pick up a LV 8 Rod or Wand for your Pick 2 and then go hog-wild with your gold. Wands, in particular, are neat because they basically give you the chance to use a Warlock or Wizard power 1/Day. Since the Daily on your armor isn't that great, this is a fine idea - I'd recommend the Wand of Shield or one of the Warlock-power Wands. Among the Rods, I'd look at the Rod of First Blood +2; it lets you do an extra 1d8 damage if you hit someone with full HP - not bad.

Some items to look at here:
- Amulet of False Life +2 [4.2K] (gains Healing Surge worth of Temp HP 1/Day)
- Circlet of Authority [2.6K] (if you want to be a bossy Warlock)

So there's my thoughts.

[theonesin]

About my stats, we were told to just pick one of the arrays from the list on....page 18? of the PHB.

[sombrastewart]

For the record, I'm playing a level 14 Fey/Dark pact Human Warlock. Having all the attacks key off of one attribute means you can gain great versatility in what you select and can go a long, long way to helping you feel more effective.

The Dark pact boon is great for either minion killing or encouraging people to not attack you. I keep forgetting it works on melee and ranged attacks. Trust me on this one, it's not a bad idea.

And bear in mind that no matter what, you STILL need to be concerned with your Int score; it affects a great deal of the secondary effects of your powers.

[Teron]

The Dragon Compendium. Dragon Magazine is a magazine published by WotC and over the months and years has held a massive amount of extra material for WotC products, including D&D. The Compendium is a book in which much of this extra material is collected and reprinted for easier reference, and includes errata and such on said material.

Wrong Dragon Compendium. The print version of Dragon, published in its last few years by Paizo under license from WotC, was cancelled before the debut of Fourth Edition. The version of Dragon relevant to players of said edition is the online one now published by WotC.

[its_all_ogre]

personally i like star pact the most, it is a great 'help the party as a whole' character where the other two are less so.
look at level one alone and you have:
at wills that target ref and will (infernal both target ref which is not ideal)
enc power that penalises enemies will defence (all allies now target will)
daily which penalises will too!

level 3 enc that grants CA to your allies AND penalises their AC? hell yes!

and this just keeps building up.
to deal with the MAD issues i'd actually go with 16 in con, cha and int. however on that basis i'd look at tiefling as race because then you get hellfire blood which makes you the most accurate race:
+1 to hit bloodied foes
+1 to hit and damage with fear and fire powers
racial power +1 to hit a foe who just hit you and add cha to damage.
plus whenever star pact boon occurs you gain another +1 or more to hit!

this should reduce issues from main stat being a 16.

[Totally Guy]

About my stats, we were told to just pick one of the arrays from the list on....page 18? of the PHB.

Hey, do you want in on a little secret?

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18 14 11 10 10 8
18 13 13 10 10 8
18 13 12 11 10 8
18 13 11 11 11 8
18 12 12 12 10 8
17 16 11 10 10 8
17 15 13 10 10 8
17 15 12 11 10 8
17 15 11 11 11 8
17 14 14 10 10 8
17 14 13 12 10 8
17 14 13 11 11 8
17 14 12 12 11 8
17 13 13 13 11 8
17 13 13 12 12 8
16 16 13 11 10 8
16 16 12 12 10 8
16 16 12 11 11 8
16 15 14 11 10 8
16 15 13 12 11 8
16 15 12 12 12 8
16 14 14 13 10 8
16 14 14 12 11 8
16 14 13 13 12 8
15 15 15 11 10 8
15 15 14 13 10 8
15 15 14 12 11 8
15 15 13 13 12 8
15 14 14 14 10 8
15 14 14 13 12 8
14 14 14 14 12 8
18 14 10 10 10 9
18 13 12 10 10 9
18 13 11 11 10 9
18 12 11 11 11 9
17 16 10 10 10 9
17 15 12 10 10 9
17 15 11 11 10 9
17 14 13 11 10 9
17 14 12 12 10 9
17 14 12 11 11 9
17 13 13 13 10 9
17 13 13 12 11 9
17 13 12 12 12 9
16 16 13 10 10 9
16 16 12 11 10 9
16 16 11 11 11 9
16 15 14 10 10 9
16 15 13 12 10 9
16 15 13 11 11 9
16 15 12 12 11 9
16 14 14 12 10 9
16 14 14 11 11 9
16 14 13 13 11 9
16 14 13 12 12 9
16 13 13 13 13 9
15 15 15 10 10 9
15 15 14 12 10 9
15 15 14 11 11 9
15 15 13 13 11 9
15 15 13 12 12 9
15 14 14 13 11 9
15 14 14 12 12 9
15 14 13 13 13 9
14 14 14 14 11 9
14 14 13 13 13 9
18 13 11 10 10 10
18 12 12 10 10 10
18 12 11 11 10 10
18 11 11 11 11 10
17 15 11 10 10 10
17 14 13 10 10 10
17 14 12 11 10 10
17 13 11 11 11 10
17 13 13 12 10 10
17 13 13 11 11 10
17 13 12 12 11 10
17 12 12 12 12 10
16 16 12 10 10 10
16 16 11 11 10 10
16 15 13 11 10 10
16 15 12 12 10 10
16 15 12 11 11 10
16 14 14 11 10 10
16 14 13 13 10 10
16 14 13 12 11 10 Standard Array
16 14 12 12 12 10
16 13 13 13 12 10
15 15 14 11 10 10
15 15 13 13 10 10
15 15 13 12 11 10
15 15 12 12 12 10
15 14 14 13 10 10
15 14 14 12 11 10
15 14 13 13 12 10
14 14 14 14 10 10
17 12 12 11 11 11
17 12 12 12 11 11
16 15 11 11 11 11
16 14 13 11 11 11
16 14 12 12 11 11
16 13 13 13 11 11
16 13 13 12 12 11
15 15 12 12 11 11
15 14 14 11 11 11
15 14 13 13 11 11
15 14 13 12 12 11
15 13 13 13 13 11
14 14 14 13 11 11
14 14 14 12 12 11
14 14 13 13 13 11
16 13 12 12 12 12
15 14 12 12 12 12
15 13 13 13 12 12
14 14 13 13 12 12
14 13 13 13 13 13

This list is sorted by most specialised to least specialised for a given lowest stat.

[Tehnar]

Hey, do you want in on a little secret?

You are missing: 18 12 12 12 10 8

[theonesin]

If it means anything, I know that one of the party members is a Wizard (Minotaur Wizard to be exact, not sure why he picked that).

[Oracle_Hunter]

If it means anything, I know that one of the party members is a Wizard (Minotaur Wizard to be exact, not sure why he picked that).

*poke* what kind of Warlock do you want to be. This is very important for Starlocks, since they basically have to mix & match their powers.

Anyhoo, looking over Glug's list (very nice, BTW!) the "16 16 12 12 10 8" array looks best for any Starlock. You'll stat it out like this:

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STR 12
DEX 8
CON 16+2
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 16+2

This gives you maximum flexibility for power selection and the ability, starting at level 11, to take Hide Proficiency (and, with retraining, Hide Spec!).

Now, if you want to be a total clothie, use the "17 14 14 10 10 8" array:

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STR 8
DEX 10
CON 17+2
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 14+2

You can flip CON & CHA if you want, but you need to double-bump the 16 and single bump the 19 and INT. That way you'll look like this at level 11:

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STR 9
DEX 11
CON 21
INT 16
WIS 11
CHA 19

Now, looking at the Doomsayer PP, I'd say the "Mind Crush" build is probably your best bet. If you wish to use it, here it is:

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STATS

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STR 8
DEX 10
CON 15
INT 17
WIS 10
CHA 21

Using the "17 15 13 10 10 8" array.

Since CON isn't that important, and INT can be, I figured I'd go long on INT and short on CON. Keep pumping INT and CHA as you level and it'll be all good.

POWERS

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At Wills - Eldrich Blast, Dire Radiance
Primarily use Eldrich Blast

Dilettante - Cloud of Daggers / Scorching Burst
You're pretty screwed here. There might be some better at-wills in Dragon Magazines or splatbooks, so look around, but since you can use your implement bonus on these attacks, they're worth a shot.

Cloud of Daggers is a guaranteed Minion Kill (handy), while Scorching Burst hits several targets, so you might get lucky.

EN 1 - Dreadful Word
Sweet, sweet WIL draining

DA 1 - Dread Star
Immobilizes with a -2 WIL penalty (Save End) and it's a Fear attack, so it works well with Doomsayer

UT 2 - Ethereal Stride
Teleportation is always good

EN 3 - Otherwind Stride
Run away! Also a fun anti-minion device.

DA 5 - Crown of Madness
Hilarious! Make the BBEG's bodyguard start hacking away at his Master

UT 6 - Shroud of Black Steel
You need the armor, but not so much the speed.

EN 7 - Mire the Mind
Mass invisibility 1/EN? Yes, please!

DA 9 - Thief of Five Fates
Practically the capstone power of this build. Completely screw over 1 enemy of your choice; see if your DM lets you use your Boon on that D20 roll - probably not, but it's worth a shot

UT 10 - Shadow Form
This is just good. You can take Shielding Shades instead if you'd like, but I just love this power.

FEATS

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Now, I don't have splatbooks or Dragon Magazine, so poke around to see if there are better feats out there.

1 - Improved Fate of the Void
Obvious.

2 - Human Perseverance
Handy, particularly with your Boon. Never fail a save again!

4 - Jack of All Trades
Also handy, unless you decide to train a bunch of skills.

6 - Action Surge
Who doesn't like +3 to hit?

8 - Improved Initiative
Why not?

10 - Skill Focus (Bluff) / Linguist
In case you need to make a lot of false prophecies, or speak to Elder Gods.

To be honest, you could also take Skill Training (Diplomacy) and be the party face (if they don't have one). It works well with your M.O. of mind control

There it is. Like I said, look at the splatbooks and Dragon Magazines you're allowed to use to tweak it, but I think this is a pretty fun build.

[theonesin]

When you ask "what kind of Warlock do you want to be", I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Care to give some examples?

The Mind Crush build mentioned looks pretty interesting, though the feat for Bluff or Diplomacy would likely be a waste for me simply because, due to personal issues, it's hard for me to roleplay at all. So I usually focus my characters on combat instead. As far as the Dilettante feature is concerned, it just so happened that the Wizard in the party did NOT pick either of the two At-Wills mentioned (he picked Magic Missile and Ray of Frost).

[Oracle_Hunter]

When you ask "what kind of Warlock do you want to be", I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Care to give some examples?

The Mind Crush build mentioned looks pretty interesting, though the feat for Bluff or Diplomacy would likely be a waste for me simply because, due to personal issues, it's hard for me to roleplay at all. So I usually focus my characters on combat instead. As far as the Dilettante feature is concerned, it just so happened that the Wizard in the party did NOT pick either of the two At-Wills mentioned (he picked Magic Missile and Ray of Frost).

Well, from an earlier post:

For the Starlock, there are lots of possibilities, but here are some I've thought up:
- Mind Crush: this build specializes in attacks that lower Will defenses and then uses Will-based attacks that control his opponents. This is a CHA focused build, using a mixture of Star and Fey pact powers.
- Chessmaster: this build specializes in powers that move and immobilize enemies, mixed in with some nasty zones that he can move folks into. This is a CON focused build, using a mixture of Star and Infernal pact powers.

Now, if you really want to be a combatant Warlock, I'd really recommend Infernal Warlock. Those guys can be tanky as hell, and there is already a popular Dwarven Warlock build (the Hexhammer) which is basically a Tank Mage. Astral Warlocks are much more into debuffing than really doing damage.

[theonesin]

Well, when I said "focused on combat", I didn't necessarily mean pure damage. I was just saying that I probably wouldn't get much use out of abilities for out of combat or RP situations. I wouldn't mind seeing the build for that Infernal Warlock though.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Well, when I said "focused on combat", I didn't necessarily mean pure damage. I was just saying that I probably wouldn't get much use out of abilities for out of combat or RP situations. I wouldn't mind seeing the build for that Infernal Warlock though.

Fair enough; I mentioned it because it's a waste to take a high-CHA build if you're not going to use any social skills.

Anyhow, the Hexhammer.

[theonesin]

That Hexhammer really surprised me. I guess I was kind of biased against the Infernal Pact because I thought it would focus on fire attacks too much (while I love fire attacks, I also hate focusing on that if we fight a lot of fire-resistant enemies), but I guess it doesn't actually use many, if any fire attacks. Having a tankish character wouldn't be bad for keeping our Wizard safe.

Edit: Wow, that Warforged version sounds like pure awesomeness. But looking up on the Warforged in the Monster Manual, I didn't see anything about this stuff for embedding equipment into them. How does that work?

[Mando Knight]

If you're actually a Dwarf using the Hexhammer and have access to the Adventurer's Vault, you can have a Pacthammer to go with it... allowing you to use both your hammer and your magic implement in one hand. You may want to actually keep Dwarven Weapon Training if you do... as you can then have a Pact Mordenkrad to deal insane damage with the hammer up close, or massive damage from slightly farther off.

[theonesin]

I didn't know about the Adventurer's Vault. I'll see if my DM will allow it.

[Shadow_Elf]

If you're interested in the Dark Pact's actual fluff, its a pact with the raw energy of the Shadowfell and the Demonweb Pits, IIRC. You have a patron, but they mostly just act as a conduit for the dark energy of those two "planes". It was invented and is favoured by Drow.