Temporary HP (3.5)

[Graymayre]

I'm looking for spells, abilities, items, classes, feats, and other things that give targets temporary HP. I'm trying to see, atleast at low-levels, if it is feasible to kill people with hp overload (pumping them to twice their HP).

On another note, is it easier to give people temporary HP in 4th edition? I've noticed a lot of abilities (particularly the cleric's) give temporary hp. Does 4th edition even have the HP overload rule? Can it be used to kill minions by just giving them one extra hp?

[Tehnar]

Umm, I think temporary HP regardless of source don't stack with each other in 3.5. The only exception to this rule, and the possibility of overload, is from being on the positive energy plane.

In 4th E, except for I think battlerager and invigorating powers, temporary HP also do not stack.

[Graymayre]

That's a shame... I've never even heard that it didn't stack. I just assumed it did since it stacked on the positive plane.

EDIT: I read up temporary hp. Nowhere does it say that it doesn't stack! Sweet!

[jcsw]

1. I'm not sure that works with normal temporary HP. IIRC the rule only worked for positive energy plane temp. HP.

2. Planar Handbook lets you swap your celestial/fiendish summons from summon monster spells with vivacious (positive energy) versions from the summon spell one level lower. These positive energy versions give all in the area the fast healing/1 effect of the positive energy plane. (So they'd convert into temp HP)

3. Planar Bubble spell (Spell Comp), cast on a Positive Energy creature, covers the area with the effects of the positive energy plane as well.

[Douglas]

The non-stacking of temp hp is new to 4e. In 3.5, as long as they come from different sources they stack without limit. However, the death due to overload is specific to the positive energy plane, not temp hp in general.

[Graymayre]

Something about this rubs me the wrong way. Why would the temporary hp be "different" enough to warrant explosion on one plane but not the other? The closest thing the DM's guide says about it is:

However, a creature must make a DC 20 fortitude save each round that its temporary hit points exceed its normal hit point total. Failing the saving throw results in exploding in a riot of energy, killing it.

Isn't positive (and its foil negative) energy a universal constant? Wouldn't positive energy be the same positive energy you could get from its home plane? If all positive energy comes from that plane, then wouldn't one be subject to the same rules of hp overload as long as it is from positive energy?

On top of that, shouldn't the above quote say "as long as the creature stays on this plane" and "creatures are unaffected by this outside of a plane with the positive domain trait" if it could only ever happen on a positively aligned plane?

Furthermore, the negative energy plane deals its drain in negative levels, which can kill you. That can occur on any plane, and it uses the same negative energy everywhere. So wouldn't the temporary hp thing work that way as well?

Comments? Should I not be applying logic to something made by WOTC?

[jcsw]

Should I not be applying logic to something made by WOTC?

Duh. RAW and common sense are not miscible in each other.

[Douglas]

A) Not all temp hp is from positive energy.
B) You generally don't have a constant influx of even more temp hp coming in anywhere but on the positive energy plane.
C) If it were supposed to be for temp hp in general, it would be mentioned in the main description of temporary hit points and the positive energy plane entry would just be a restatement/reminder of the rule.

[Graymayre]

The semantics of temporary hp is a minor hill compared to finding the abilities to atleast make this character feasible at low levels.

I can talk to the DM and see if he can make an exception with temporary Hp (or even if he rules in my favor to begin with). However, I can only get help to find feats, items, abilities, spells, etc. from the playground. Therefore, any assistance in finding these are greatly appreciated.

[Thrawn183]

Can anyone link the thread in the gestalt build challenge where the guy used cloudkill and planar bubble to kill people by making them explode, while refusing to do any lethal damage?

That guy was awesome.

[Zaq]

NOTE: I'm purposefully going to ignore the argument about whether or not this whole scheme actually works.

The Favored Soul ACF in PHB2 lets you give temp HP to allies, but it's worded such that it basically can't stack with anything else.

Aid gives 1d8+CL (max 10) temp HP to the target; Virtue (worst cantrip ever) gives 1 temp HP. Mass Aid is the same as Aid but it has a higher max on the +CL. I'm not certain, but Aid and Mass Aid probably should stack.

Several of the newer polymorph-subschool spells give temp HP, but I'm pretty sure they're personal-only.

A decent Enchantment effect could convince a target to drink a potion of False Life or apply a psionic tattoo of Vigor (the power, not the spell) to give themselves more temp HP. You charm them, hand them the potion, then suggest (or Suggest) they drink it. Since it's normally considered a beneficial effect, it would probably be easy to convince them to do so. Divine Power also gives temporary HP, but it's too high to brew into a potion without really, really twisting the intention of Sanctum Spell.

[Graymayre]

doesn't vigor and lesser vigor give temporary hp? (not sure, don't own the books they are in).

Can anyone link the thread in the gestalt build challenge where the guy used cloudkill and planar bubble to kill people by making them explode, while refusing to do any lethal damage?

That guy was awesome.

I would very much like to see that one of these days...

[The Glyphstone]

Vigor gives Fast Healing, not Temporary HP.

[Alleine]

Psionic Vigor gives temporary HP.

[jcsw]

Okay, upon further reading I realized something. It's not major positive plane's temporary healing that kills, it's the line that says those with temporary HP equal to their HP must save or die.

That is to say, you could kill with normal temp. HP, but you must induce the area with the positive energy plane traits first. Thus, if you used the Vivacious creature summon thing, you could use normal temporary HP to kill, ditto the planar bubble thing.