Joy!

[LibraryOgre]

I made my Wednesday night trip to the FLGS. While talking to the Oompa-loompa at the counter, I noticed a few modules that hadn't yet been priced. I had him check on them, and picked up, in decent condition:

T1-4: The Temple of Elemental Evil (collected version, (c) 1985, with map booklet)
Q1: Queen of the Demonweb Pits
A1, A2, A3 and A4: Slavers Series.
D1-2 and D3

I is a happy geek.

On the other hand, I can hear Hzurr shuddering, because I've volunteered to DM if he needs a break...

[Occasional Sage]

I made my Wednesday night trip to the FLGS. While talking to the Oompa-loompa at the counter, I noticed a few modules that hadn't yet been priced. I had him check on them, and picked up, in decent condition:

T1-4: The Temple of Elemental Evil (collected version, (c) 1985, with map booklet)
Q1: Queen of the Demonweb Pits
A1, A2, A3 and A4: Slavers Series.
D1-2 and D3

I is a happy geek.

On the other hand, I can hear Hzurr shuddering, because I've volunteered to DM if he needs a break...

The Temple was never a favorite of mine (though Fragrach was AWESOME!). Slavers was very good, though, and the Descent Into the Depths of the Earth/Queen of the Demonweb Pits series was very, very good. (Did your D1 and D2 come packaged together? That's what it sounds like from how you listed them, but I've never seen them that way.)

I am, frankly, more than a bit jealous.

[BlueWizard]

My blue robe is turning green with envy. I merely have reprinted copies, but those are awesome, and can easily be updated to modern D&D for players who've never experienced the fun.

D1-D2 did come together... at least when I saw it. Probably a later edition.

[LibraryOgre]

The Temple was never a favorite of mine (though Fragrach was AWESOME!). Slavers was very good, though, and the Descent Into the Depths of the Earth/Queen of the Demonweb Pits series was very, very good. (Did your D1 and D2 come packaged together? That's what it sounds like from how you listed them, but I've never seen them that way.)

I am, frankly, more than a bit jealous.

They did. While I'm not a fan of the temple, itself, the Moathouse makes a great shakedown adventure, and Hommlet is a great place to start many adventures. My D1&2 did come together. Now that I have Q1, though, I need to get the Giants modules...

[Starscream]

Want a moment of joy? I was wandering around last week and stumbles across an old book store. Found copies of the original AD&D Players Hanbook, Dungeon Master's Guide and Monster Manual by Gary Gygax for 3 bucks each.

When I asked why so cheap the lady said it was because those were very old and she had heard there were newer editions of the same book out now. Apparently she thinks gaming books are like textbooks or software and the old ones are worthless when the new ones come out.

[BlueWizard]

For me the drow series is the best source stuff for drow that was ever made for D&D.

[Jarawara]

Congrats on your find, Mark. I assume you've seen them before, back in the old days, but you just didn't have a copy of your own?

I used to collect, so I have copies of all the oldies. I can't really compare them to the newer stuff, because these days I just don't have time to buy and look at all the latest stuff. As such, I find myself enjoying the older adventures just because I'm familiar with them. And besides, they survive the test of time for a reason!

I'm just about to run the Slaver series on one group of players, and I recently ran a modified moathouse adventure, though I used it as a lead-in to Keep on the Borderlands instead of Temple of Elemental Evil.

I like the low to mid-level games, and so while I always felt that the Giants series was hellafun to play, it just couldn't seem to pass the giggle test with me. The 'giggle test' is when I stand toe-to-toe with a Giant that outweights me 20 to 1, and I cut him down and three of his closest friends... and then I start giggling because I can't visualize any way in the world I could have done that. I mean... that Giant would have kicked me across the room, splat, then come over and made me into so much flesh jelly for his toast. Giants should be more than just 35 hp Orcs, know what I mean?

But I'm planning on rewriting the G-1-2-3 series with smaller foes, not Giants, and running that in my campaign. And as it just so happens, an alliance of three tribes just happens to be developing in my campaign. So I see in my future the 'Steading of the Raliskan Chieftan', the 'Glacial Rift of the Maitooran Jarl', and the 'Hall of the Tal'khed King'. I believe that will make for a rousing conclusion to my long-term storylines.


In short, them older adventures are da bomb!

[BlueWizard]

All my players have seen them. So, when I used them I had to change a lot around, but you can start in the elemental temple and end fighting Lloth!

[LibraryOgre]

Congrats on your find, Mark. I assume you've seen them before, back in the old days, but you just didn't have a copy of your own?

I was eight, with a mother who disapproved of D&D, when my copy of ToEE was published; I know them by reputation.

I'm just about to run the Slaver series on one group of players, and I recently ran a modified moathouse adventure, though I used it as a lead-in to Keep on the Borderlands instead of Temple of Elemental Evil.

I was actually thinking of using the Moathouse as an intro to the slaver series; the moathouse could just as easily be a haven for slavers, raiding caravans for supplies and stock.

Giants should be more than just 35 hp Orcs, know what I mean?

Then use them as such! Instead of swinging a club, have one drop a 40' table on people, or erect a 6' high barrier across the hall and hit people from the other side. Have them grapple people! If they can toss a boulder, they can toss a halfling! Dwarf bowling! Have them use dire wolves to seek out intruders once it's obvious they've got an infestation! Heck, upgrade a couple of them to d10 HD and give them multiple attacks like a fighter.

[Jarawara]

Then use them as such! Instead of swinging a club, have one drop a 40' table on people, or erect a 6' high barrier across the hall and hit people from the other side. Have them grapple people! If they can toss a boulder, they can toss a halfling! Dwarf bowling! Have them use dire wolves to seek out intruders once it's obvious they've got an infestation! Heck, upgrade a couple of them to d10 HD and give them multiple attacks like a fighter.

Good advice, and certainly that's all the kind of stuff I use. My best tactical player once said he seeks to use the terrain, the furniture, and the other individuals within the room, as his primary weapons. Only when he's run out of those options does he consider using his sword. Well, Giants can do the same, and to a much greater scale due to size.

The problem arises however if you intend to use the module as written, for the character levels it was designed for. The module designers intended for the Giants to be 35hp orcs, to fight with club, to stand and die after so much damage is applied. If they actually fought smart, actually fought like Giants would logically fight... well, the party can't possibly deal with that many giants at once.

And that means you're adjusting all the numbers, and in effect re-writing the adventure, possibly from the ground up. Now mind you, I'm not opposed to such a thing, but if I call my friends over and say "Hey, let's do the Against the Giants adventure", they're gonna be expecting the classic, not a completely rewritten game.

I like the classics. But if I have to rewrite the classics... well, they're no longer the classics, are they?

*~*~*~*

You know, I could have responded much easier by saying: I was mostly talking about when I'm playing, and another is DMing. That's when I experience my 'failing the giggletest' the most often. But instead I felt like I had to give an indepth reasoning of why I shouldn't rewrite what I already said I intend to rewrite. How goofy is that???

Bottom line is, yeah, you're correct. Play the Giants smart, and they can be a total riot to play. Since I like low level play, that means fewer giants, but that's perfectly fine. A single well-played giant can be quite the boss fight for a prepared low level party, and I can have all the halfling tossing I could ever possibly desire.

*~*~*

Never did Dwarf Bowling before, but I once did Dwarf Billiards. It was funny to tell the players that the monster did 22 damage to Norin, who then did 12 to Dorin, who then did 4 damage to Orin.

[BlueWizard]

I played the giants once and we took on an army of Fire Giants.
My fighter with 18/00 Str, died when we got to the drow.

[evil-frosty]

My dad has converted all the giant mods into 3.5 and has buffed them up considerably since he is DMing for our group. And wants to give me and 2 of my friends experience with older mods.
I am looking forward to it.

[Froogleyboy]

My dad has converted all the giant mods into 3.5 and has buffed them up considerably since he is DMing for our group. And wants to give me and 2 of my friends experience with older mods.
I am looking forward to it.

I would love to know how to do that

[Jarawara]

I probably didn't explain my hesitation to 'rewrite the classics' very well, but as I hit the post button I came up with a really good example.

I'm about to run the Scourge of the Slave Lord series, and I'm intending to run the tournament version. That means, pre-set characters, pre-set paths (no going in the side entrace, you have mostly only one direction to go), and every room is carefully set up on how the monsters would react.

There's a bunch of humanoids in that series. Orcs, Goblins, plenty of others. Now long ago I decided that humanoids get the shaft in most versions of D&D. The idea that they are all just basic 4hp sword & shield brutes just bugs me. Now truth be told, the Slaver series is great for giving them well set up encounters where even a few 4hp brutes can be quite the challenge. But I wanted more for them for my regular game...

...so I beefed up the hit points of the common humanoids. Orcs, instead of the usual 4, now have 9-12 hp. Goblins pretty much the same. Gnolls more like 20. Hobgoblins... oh, you just don't wanna know!!

And my players expect this, having gamed with me for years, so that's no problem. It doesn't really change the combat that much, it's still all about choices and tactics. But there's a significant difference to an Orc that dies in one hit and an Orc that can commonly survive two to three hits. (1st edition AD&D doesn't have a lot of high-damage hits even at the mid-levels.)

But then I look at Scourge of the Slave Lords, and I realize that if I double to triple every single humanoid throughout the whole series, who easily number in the hundreds... well, so much for balance in the tournament module.

So, I either up the level of the party, lower the number of the enemies, rewrite the very nature of the storyline... or I just put the Orcs and Goblins back to 4hp, and have a hell of a fun time playing the classic adventure.

The classics are enjoyed best in their original form. It's for my regular game that I'll have my tough humanoids and my smart Giants.

*~*

Yes, evil frostly, do tell us how your father's rewrite goes. Most of the old classics have been rewritten several times. I think I heard that the Giant Series was being considered for a rewrite into 4E, and I know that it's been done for... 3E, or maybe late 2E before, as well as the Slaver's series. I'll always like the original 1E versions, but I enjoy the updated info too.

[evil-frosty]

I will tell you how it goes once i go through it since i am not allowed to look at it for obvious reasons. Might take awhile because we dont get together with our group a lot. We live rather far away from each other.

[BlueWizard]

I will tell you how it goes once i go through it since i am not allowed to look at it for obvious reasons. Might take awhile because we dont get together with our group a lot. We live rather far away from each other.

That's too bad.

[LibraryOgre]

I agree and disagree that the classics are best in their original form.

One thing about many of the early modules is they expected sound to travel. If the group at 34 got in trouble, they'd call for help from 37. If things got really bad, someone would go running for help (morale was the DMs friend as much as the PCs). That part of old modules is fantastic.

Furthermore, 1st edition made it pretty easy to scale up humanoids... if you want to toss more HP on top of them, then the XP system just has you add more XP per HP. 2nd edition made it a bit more of a process (since you had to figure where they were in the XP/HD calculation, and add HD on top of that).