Competing Compulsions?

[Zaq]

How do magical compulsions interact with one another when they come into conflict? Let me phrase this in the form of an example.

We have our poor hapless Fighter. We'll call him Vic, for puntastic reasons that should be obvious.

We also have two evil Wizards, Andy and Ben. Andy and Ben don't like each other.

Andy comes across Vic and hits him with Suggestion. Vic fails his Will save, and Andy orders Vic into his library to alphabetize his books.

Ben sees Vic, still under Andy's Suggestion, obediently organizing. Ben decides to screw with Andy, and hits Vic with another Suggestion. Vic once again fails his Will save, and Ben orders Vic to follow him back to his lair.

So, what does Vic do in this situation? He's still under Andy's command to organize his books. He can't disobey that order. However, he also can't disobey Ben's order to leave the books behind and come back to Ben's lair.

You can replace Suggestion with whatever Compulsion effects you like (two competing Dominates would be... interesting). In fact, let's say that first off, Andy casts Dominate Person, rather than Suggestion, on Vic and tells him to get sorting. How does Ben's Suggestion work then? What if that Suggestion is Heightened to be the same level as Dominate Person?

[Harperfan7]

I don't know what the official rules for something like that is, but I would just make opposing caster level checks (with primary ability score mods added in).

Although, if somebody dominated your fighter, you could deep slumber him (if under 10hd) and he wouldn't continue to obey the dominator, and both spells are enchantment.

[Sebastian]

well, as a rule of thumbs

higher level spell trump lower level spell

higher caster level trump lower caster level

last casted trump previous effects

so suggestion over dominate don't work, as suggestion of a lower level wizard, but with equal level caster the last suggestion win.

this only when two spells are obviously in conflict, I can cast suggestion on someone charmed or even monster charmed by an higher level wizard and as long my suggestion don't conflict with the charm he'd follow it.

Or at least, this is how I'd play it.

so in your example, assuming Andy and Ben are of the same level Vic will follow Andy to his lair, but once here and the suggestion is over he'd remember he have still some book to alphabetize and go back (assuming the other suggestion is still active wihich I doubt, but is more fun this way :) )

[JeenLeen]

I'm not sure what it says by RAW. But I would imagine that, with lower-level spells such as suggestion or charm person, the spells are both active and it's up to the character to rationalize or make it appear logical to their mind. In this instance, I imagine the fighter would finish the books then go with the other wizard, or go with the other wizard while intending to come back to the books.

A spell like Dominate Person that controls the creature would overwhelm lesser spells, but I don't know what two Dominates would do. It might depend on which wizard gave a command last.

You could rule (or maybe it is a rule) that such spells don't "stack", in that once one is active, a second one does nothing, like having two +4 enhancements to Strength. I suppose then it would be up to caster level or some such.
I think I read something on how Charm Person works when opposing people cast it, but I forget what it said.

[Flickerdart]

Vic would do his best to do as much of both Compulsions as he can. In this case, he would pile Andy's books into a cart and sort them at Ben's lair.

[Fixer]

Personally, I see no conflict between the spells. Suggestion isn't a control-issue, it is an influence. The most recent influence would take precedence until it was handled, then the previous influence would resume (provided its spell effect hadn't expired).

Now, if two controllers are trying to control the same character, they would get into a caster level check for control (standard action, does not provoke AOO). Winner gains control for one round. Loser loses their standard action for the round trying to exert control.

Not sure if any of this is RAW, though.

[Zherog]

The FAQ has this to say:

What happens when multiple creatures dominate the same target?

In most cases, both dominate effects would work normally. Each time one of the controllers gives the target a command, the target follows that command to the exclusion of all other activities. As long as the commands don’t conflict, the target simply follows all commands given.

The only sticky situation comes when the orders conflict, but that’s handled on page 172 of the PH: “If the controlled creature receives conflicting orders simultaneously, the competing controllers must make opposed Charisma checks to determine which one the creature obeys.”

I don't have my books in front of me, but the quote from the PHB seems like it would also cover the suggestion scenario laid out in the first post of the thread.

[Zaq]

Good answers so far, but I thought of one more wrench to throw in the works.

Andy hits Vic with your favorite Compulsion spell. Suggestion, Dominate, whatever. His orders? "Stay here and do not leave for any reason until I tell you otherwise." Vic fails his save and roots in place.

Ben sees Vic standing there and hits him with your favorite Fear effect. Doesn't matter what the actual spell is, but let's assume that (through Heighten if necessary) the spell level (and caster level) is the same as Andy's compulsion. The net effect is that Vic is now Panicked.

Panicked creatures must flee as fast as they can from the source of their fear. Vic is under a compulsion not to move from that spot. What does Vic do? Does he cower, as though cornered? Flee despite his compulsion, with his fear overriding his orders?

What if the fear effect wasn't a spell? There are several feats that can create fear as an Ex effect, after all. For example, say that Ben has his favorite thrall use Daunting Presence on Vic (rendering him Shaken for 10 minutes) and then uses a simple Intimidate on him (increasing the fear by one step, to Frightened.) The Rules Compendium states that when stacking fear effects, the full effect of the fear lasts for the entire duration of the longest effect, so Vic is now Frightened for 10 minutes. Frightened creatures also must flee as fast as possible, but again, Vic is under a compulsion not to flee for any reason. There's no spell levels to compare, no caster levels to compare, just fear. What does Vic do?

[Keld Denar]

Hmmmm, in that case, the fear would overwrite the compulsion. After all, a compulsion can't compulse you to do something you aren't physically able. You can't dominate a person and order them to hover 6" off the ground. If you chain someone to a table and then compulse them to clean the room, they don't get a Error 404: Divide by Fhtagn error. They just lie there, struggling as much as possible to get free, but in the end, not completing the compuled command.

Thus, the target of the fear would attempt to stay in the area as best as physically able, and the fear effect would make him physically unable. After the fear wore off, assuming the compulsion is still active, Vic would return to the location he was directed to remain at and remain there until ordered otherwise, the effect wears off, or some other circumstance prevents Vic from doing as compulsed.