me wizard! [3.5]

[Dixieboy]

Hello oh all mighty g33ks, i come to you now in my hour of need because of my Liege having found a... Creative way to make me think outside of the box.

Here's the story: My wizard as well as my three party members went into a tower to defeat the big bad spellcaster who lives there. (My wizard being lawful evil and going there only for a chance to get a peek at the guys library of powerful magical tomes and scrolls as well as books filled with forgotten lore, a real treat for a 'zard )
Yes, yes, i know. Not terribly original but you can't have an innovative quest premise every damn time.
On the second floor of this tower we defeat a Beholder among corpses of it's kin, and find four petrified adventurers, one of the players is a paladin and as such when we find a scroll in one of their pockets (The paladins reason for allowing this was that they would never us it themselves anyway) that says it can bring them back to live he demands that i, as the only guy who can read this. (How he found out that it could revive them is beyond me)
My Wizard is offcourse reluctant to read this, but the paladins blade to his neck is very convincing and he reads out the scroll and casts the spell.

The minds of the petrified dudes are now tranferred into out bodies, so as we can share them.

Now this would not be a problem if i did not get the CG Half orc fighter inside me
Now i get to build this fighter myself but his stats are set, he uses "my" physical stats and his own mental stats
Which puts him at
Str: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Wis: 13
Int: 9
Cha: 9
Now i am allowed to use any material i want to, provided it's published by WoTC, is 3.5 and that i ask my DM for permission.
Which feats, skills and the like would you recommend for a 12th level fighter with crappy stats?

[Heliomance]

Point out to the DM that this has utterly destroyed your character concept, as with 9 int you cannot cast spells anymore. Ask him if there's some way to undo the curse (as I'm sure your character would think of it), and if he says suck it up, you might want to consider leaving. Also, ask him why the hell you didn't get a Spellcraft roll to determine what the spell would do before casting it.

[chiasaur11]

Wow.

I'm guessing this is an occasional time share condition, rather than a full time problem, right?

Because otherwise, geeze. I agree with the guy above.

[Dixieboy]

Excellent point. It should be noted i did get a check to determine the precise effect, i managed to conclude that it at least wouldn't de-petrify them, mentioning this to the Paladin didn't do anything to change his conviction that the spell had to be cast

I still get to cast my spells, the body is shared between the fighter and my wizard, as in sometimes my wizard is in control, and sometimes the fighter is in control, as a wizard i retain all my powers when i am actually in control.

Thanks for the advice nonetheless

Edit: One more thing: My DM promised me this is only temporary, as he agree that playing the rest of the game as a person swapping between two completely opposed allignments and playing styles might be a tad weird.

[Narmoth]

Str: 10 - rather weak for an orc.
Dex: 14 - nice. Give him ranged weapons. Something big and damaging
Con: 12 - nothing special
Wis: 13 - this is interesting. You can use this as a step-in for the lack of int, and work on finding an int-raising item
Int: 9 - yeah, this sucks. Then again, the stats seems to be deliberately put so as to make your character useless.
Cha: 9 - well, what would you expect from an orc?.

I'd go with several types of crossbows and try to get hold of magical items to increase inteligence

[Draz74]

Hmmmm. Gonna say a non-traditional, mobile type of Fighter.

Weapon Finesse
Shadow Blade
Martial Stance (prereq for Shadow Blade)
Martial Study (prereq for Martial Stance)
Combat Focus (take advantage of that WIS)
Combat Awareness (you're just barely high enough level)
Combat Vigor

After that ... hmm, several options. You could take Martial Study another couple times; might as well pick up as many cool ToB tricks as possible.

You could cement the "evasive, mobile" thing with Dodge/Mobility/Elusive Target, Combat Reflexes and Evasive Reflexes. Maybe you'll be annoying to try to hurt even if your offense sucks.

Since Martial Stance is probably giving you +2d6 Sneak Attack, you could go for TWF and related feats. If you can get Dex-boost items.

Or you could pick up a shield and some feats to make it worthwhile: Shield Ward, Shield Specialization (prereq), and Martial Study (shield block). Heck, you could even combine this with the TWF option by picking up Improved Shield Bash, Agile Shield Fighter, and a spiked shield (you won't even need TWF or a Dex boost). But if you do that, you'll have to use a light shield rather than a heavy shield, so you can finesse it.

Yeah, I like that last option.

L1: Weapon Finesse, Improved Shield Bash
L2: Agile Shield Fighter
L3: Shield Specialization
L4: Shield Ward
L6: Martial Study (shield block), Combat Focus
L8: Combat Vigor
L9: Martial Study (something Shadow Hand, maybe Shadow Jaunt)
L10: Martial Stance (assassin's stance)
L12: Combat Awareness, Shadow Blade

Fight with a short sword and a light spiked shield.

[Heliomance]

I recommend killing the Paladin at the earliest possible opportunity. You're evil, and he's got a giant redwood up his backside.

It won't help with your problem, but it'll make you feel better.

[chiasaur11]

Who does the pally have in his noggin, anyway?

Might provide some karmic payback.

[Kyeudo]

I recommend killing the Paladin at the earliest possible opportunity. You're evil, and he's got a giant redwood up his backside.

It won't help with your problem, but it'll make you feel better.

I second this motion. If there is a paladin in a party with a LE character, he needs to die.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Honestly, I'm surprised you didn't nuke the Paladin when he threatened you to use an unknown scroll which would not free the petrified individuals. If you can take on a Beholder, a Paladin is easy. Dimension Door + Fly and he can't touch you, then Enervate the heck out of him until either he dies from negative levels, or his saves are low enough that you can just Fireball him or something.

[Leon]

im surprised that the pally is still a pally and not a Low grade fighter since he has been associating with the wizard

Str: 10 - rather weak for an orc.
Dex: 14 - nice. Give him ranged weapons. Something big and damaging
Con: 12 - nothing special
Wis: 13 - this is interesting. You can use this as a step-in for the lack of int, and work on finding an int-raising item
Int: 9 - yeah, this sucks. Then again, the stats seems to be deliberately put so as to make your character useless.
Cha: 9 - well, what would you expect from an orc?.

The physical stats are not the Half Orcs

[Darth Stabber]

Yeah, in 3.5 kill the paladin seems to be a good course of action. It is in 4e too because then you don't end up sucking down so much radiant damage.

Steps for overcoming this challenge
1. Murder the Paladin in his sleep
2. Prep Dispel Magic
3. Cast Dispel magic
4. If Dispel solves your problem
4a. Then GOTO 20
5. Prep Remove Curse
6. Cast Remove Curse
7. If Remove Curse solves your problem
7a. Then GOTO 20
8. Prep Break Enchantment
9. Cast Break Enchantment
10. If Break Enchantment solves your problem
10a. Then GOTO 20
11. Prep Greater Dispel Magic
12. Cast Greater Dispel magic
13. If Greater Dispel solves your problem
13a. Then GOTO 20
14. Prep Disjunction
15. Cast Disjunction
16. If Disjunction solves your problem
16a. Then GOTO 20
17. Prep Wish
18. Cast Wish
19 If Wish doesn't solve your problem
16a. Then Throw New SUCKS TO BE YOU Error
16b. End Process
20. Profit.

See a simple flow chart that details what you must do.

[Thurbane]

Just remember, everyone, before you advocate "lynch the DM!" type advice, we are only getting one side of the story. While I don't doubt the OPs story, there may well be info that the DM hasn't revealed to the player yet.

[Bugbeartrap]

Do you get your mental stats back when the wizard is in control? I certainly hope so. How about when the fighter is in control? Does he get a different HD? His own full BAB?

I'm surprised how fast every jumped to killing another player, also how does a paladin get off threatening folks to do things which he has no idea if it will help or hurt the party or others?

That aside, it would be a poor DM to let you die when he has forced these restrictions on you. The mobility/Dex build seems like the best you could do, but if you wanted to push it to the limit, use this opportunity. Really show how lawful evil your character is compared to this Chaotic Good Half-orc. Perhaps you should pick typical strength fighter feats and keep expressing disbelief that the abilities you once had no longer work. "Thog smash not seem effective!"

[d13]

Just remember, everyone, before you advocate "lynch the DM!" type advice, you'd just want to follow the "lynch the Paladin" type advice, which works wonders

There you go, fixed it for ya =9.


Anyway... Threatening someone into doing something just because you want to doesn't seem very Paladin-ish to me... (Leaving aside the fact that he "is willingly associated with an evil character" ).


Quick fix? Hara-kiri and roll up a new LE wizard xD

Railroading DM friendly fix? Roll and role with it.

Just-an-interesting-thing-DM fix? If this thing is still "on" at the end of the next session, talk to the DM and get him to understand that he gently caressed it up... Big time. xD

[Fireballing_Fun]

On the second floor of this tower we defeat a Beholder among corpses of it's kin, and find four petrified adventurers, one of the players is a paladin and as such when we find a scroll in one of their pockets (The paladins reason for allowing this was that they would never us it themselves anyway) that says it can bring them back to live he demands that i, as the only guy who can read this. (How he found out that it could revive them is beyond me)

Aaah noble knight this scroll merely contains a spell to charm the highland jabberwocky of buttunip, which I am left to believe has been extinct for 300 years... alas were it spell that could somehow help them. Very sad, lets us loot the bodies... I mean apropriate this unused equipment and get on with our quest, mayhaps returning some day to help these fallen heroes?

Problem solved.

[Brock Samson]

I'm going to second the "stick it to the DM by taking the feats he really WOULD have had". For instance: bull rush, power attack, improved trip, improved disarm, all things you really need a high str for. Then just play it up!

Alternatively you could take purely defensive feats: Combat expertise, improved combat expertise, 5 ranks tumble. Wield 2 spiked sheilds and ALWAYS fight dumping ALL your BAB into expertise AND fighting defensively, it'll be great! You'll have a 0 attack bonus from your BAB thanks to expertise, a -4 from fighting defensively, no strength to bump up, and your weapon I doubt is a +4. So you'll ONLY hit on a 20, the rest of the time being so ineffectual and time-wasting your DM will just face-palm and give up the sharade.

One more option: You ARE the gish. Bite of the were-X, improved blink, all those goodies that are "personal" available for you in fighter form. The Bite'll get your strength up and lots of other good stuff.

Also, did the Paladin actually give you a reason for forcing you to cast the spell? Threatening a person with murder because... well there is no reason as there just happened to be A scroll there, which could easily be a trap, you figured out, and he threatens you if you don't cast it. Sounds pretty EVIL to me, perhaps he's a Blackguard in disguise? Perhaps you should dispatch him in the name of "righteousness"?

[BobVosh]

Hmm. Since you are probably able to cast 6th level spells if you are fighting beholder + beholderkin, perhaps the best response was "I'll cast Stone to flesh in the morning after perparing, rather than casting from this scroll which interestingly enough wasn't turn to stone unlike everything else they had."

[Farlion]

It's interesting to see, how some people ignore the most prominent traits of some classes. A paladin grouping with a lawful evil character would lose his powers very quickly.

Other than that, your only chance to get rid of the curse is to use a remove curse scroll oder a wish scroll, which you can still use even with your truncated intellect (correct me if im wrong).

Cheers,
Farlion

[Kami2awa]

Sounds fun! We've just finished a Call of Cthulhu campaign with a character with Multiple Personality Disorder; the original personality being a stereotyped Arab guide (Benny from The Mummy, basically) and the other believing itself to be... Lord Carnarvon, discoverer of Tutankhamen's tomb (who died IRL just before the campaign started, since it's set in 1924). There was much hilarity, especially as Lord C was far braver, saner and in fact more useful in general than the original personality. Throw in the original personality's allegiance to the People's Front of Aden (a revolutionary group aiming to overthrow the British Empire) and you have quite a roleplaying challenge and a very silly campaign indeed.

[BobVosh]

It's interesting to see, how some people ignore the most prominent traits of some classes. A paladin grouping with a lawful evil character would lose his powers very quickly.

Other than that, your only chance to get rid of the curse is to use a remove curse scroll oder a wish scroll, which you can still use even with your truncated intellect (correct me if im wrong).

Cheers,
Farlion

You can't cast from a scroll if you don't meet the prereqs for the spell. Such as too low int. Unless you UMD it.

But that isn't the problem.

His mental stats are only that way when the HO is in control.

His physical stats are that way because it was the wizards stats (I imagine). Seems reasonably wizardly depending on how you want to build it. I'm imagining a 22ish intelligence with it.

[Dixieboy]

Thank you, i ended up building him as a typical half orc, which is kinda bad since he is using MY HD

Murder of the paladin is a really good idea, sadly he is needed as off now, which is the only reason he is still breathing .
My character is carrying around 12 different kinds of poison, some of these are way above what i should have at this level.

Him being the party leader and me being the only guy who wants him dead would put me at a disadvantageous position if disposed off him, right now.
Also the Tower is proving to be quite lethal so a big brickhead who activates traps by blindly charging into a room means i do not have to take so much damage.
And with my 24 Int i would know this :P

I am thinking off taking out that stick from his behind and stabbing him to death with it, though i am taking other suggestions, any preffered way to off a paladin (No, not make him fall, kill him, make him dead, deadify him. Preferably disintegrated or smaller bits. My wizard is not the type for slow revenge, he doesn't have the time for that)

[Triaxx]

Sounds like a good time for a demonstration of the terminal velocity of the PHB as it applies to other players who are purposely assinine and then cause frustrating consequences for other players.

Or you could jump out the window.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Thank you, i ended up building him as a typical half orc, which is kinda bad since he is using MY HD

Murder of the paladin is a really good idea, sadly he is needed as off now, which is the only reason he is still breathing .
My character is carrying around 12 different kinds of poison, some of these are way above what i should have at this level.

Him being the party leader and me being the only guy who wants him dead would put me at a disadvantageous position if disposed off him, right now.
Also the Tower is proving to be quite lethal so a big brickhead who activates traps by blindly charging into a room means i do not have to take so much damage.
And with my 24 Int i would know this :P

I am thinking off taking out that stick from his behind and stabbing him to death with it, though i am taking other suggestions, any preffered way to off a paladin (No, not make him fall, kill him, make him dead, deadify him. Preferably disintegrated or smaller bits. My wizard is not the type for slow revenge, he doesn't have the time for that)

You are never going to get a Poison to affect a Paladin. He has a High Fort save, plus his Con bonus, plus his Charisma bonus. not gonna happen.

Here is what you do:

First, some buffing is in order. Flight (or overland flight if you have it) + Greater Invisibility. This keeps him from being able to affect you so you can simply eliminate him without risk.

Hit him with 3-4 Enervates. Shouldn't be too difficult for a Wizard of your intellect and level. You're wanting to rack up at least 10 negative levels. Follow that up with a Disintegrate. Dead Pally.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Murder of the paladin is a really good idea, sadly he is needed as off now, which is the only reason he is still breathing .
My character is carrying around 12 different kinds of poison, some of these are way above what i should have at this level.

Him being the party leader and me being the only guy who wants him dead would put me at a disadvantageous position if disposed off him, right now.
Also the Tower is proving to be quite lethal so a big brickhead who activates traps by blindly charging into a room means i do not have to take so much damage.
And with my 24 Int i would know this :P

I am thinking off taking out that stick from his behind and stabbing him to death with it, though i am taking other suggestions, any preffered way to off a paladin (No, not make him fall, kill him, make him dead, deadify him. Preferably disintegrated or smaller bits. My wizard is not the type for slow revenge, he doesn't have the time for that)

How to Humiliate and Kill a Paladin without losing your meatshield:

This requires your wizard to be in control, but that is pretty obvious:

1: Start a gaming session
2: Be taking a break
3: Start idley picking through the players handbook, stopping on the page with the paladin. Say that you're looking at his class features
4: Read the code of conduct, and loudly announce the part about asscociates.

Associates
While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.

5: Point out to your DM that this means that the paladin should fall immidiately.
6: Laugh and Point
7: Kill Fighter-With-Out-Bonus-Feats in any wizardly way. You might even be able to pull this off as a half-orc, as you have the feats and he doesn't. But go wizard to be safe.
8: Animate Dread Warrior
9: ?????
10: Profit!

[Zherog]

How's his Will save? Unless he has a kick ass Charisma, I suspect it's on the low side. I'll go ahead and guess he has around an 18 Cha. Let's call it a 14 Wisdom. Assuming you're 12th level - the same as the mind you "inherited" - would give the pally a Will save of +10.

Instead of killing him, maybe you could just dominate him. Instant lackey!

You've said you have a 24 Int, so that's a +7 mod. Level 5 spell makes the DC 22. So the pally (assuming stats similar to what I guessed) would fail more than half the time.

Make him your play toy for a while. When the spell is about to expire - almost two weeks later! - then you kill him. I do, in fact, recommend bludgeoning him to death with the stick that's been implanted in his ass.

[Dixieboy]

He doesn't know I'm evil, hell he failed his sense motive check so badly that he believes i am doing it to help my sick grandma.

Which raises the question, is threatening to kill a "Lawful good" character for no other reason that disobedience allowed by the paladin code?

Throwing the players handbook at him is an excellent idea, sadly at the time i only had popcorns at hand, so that was what was sent through the room

Domination definateley suits my character. and with the paladin being lawful stupid making the others believe everything is as normal won't be hard.

[monty]

He doesn't know I'm evil, hell he failed his sense motive check so badly that he believes i am doing it to help my sick grandma.

No detect evil?

[Atamasama]

He doesn't know I'm evil, hell he failed his sense motive check so badly that he believes i am doing it to help my sick grandma.

Which raises the question, is threatening to kill a "Lawful good" character for no other reason that disobedience allowed by the paladin code?

Throwing the players handbook at him is an excellent idea, sadly at the time i only had popcorns at hand, so that was what was sent through the room

He broke the code one way or the other. If he thinks you're good then threatening to murder you should have stripped him of his powers. If he knows you're evil then he should either demand you leave the group or attempt to slay you in the name of good. Either way he's broken his code but the DM is letting him get away with it.

[Dingle]

Regarding spending time as a different class, with worse and non optimal attributes.

I like the idea of using self only buffs as a wizard to deal with the problem that you have low stats.
You might get to keep his Fighter BAB.

Ask your DM to let you take advantage of the wizard's high will save to stay in control when you want to (opposed will save to see who is in control).

Another example of a mental control mechanic is the control check from the sphere of annihilation.
From d20srd.org

A character’s ability to gain control of a sphere of annihilation (or to keep controlling one) is based on the result of a control check against DC 30 (a move action). A control check is 1d20 + character level + character Int modifier. If the check succeeds, the character can move the sphere (perhaps to bring it into contact with an enemy) as a free action.

Both of these control methods benefit you. Try to get your dm to let you use one of these mechanics.

Buff up, willingly fail save, have fun as an effective part time fighter.