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Thread: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
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2009-03-30, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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[4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
So, last night I was making a bard, as our old adventuring group split up and some of us were making new characters as different characters went on different quests. I'm making the "incredibly multi-talented bard"... a human with 5 different multiclass feats. However, this was my first up-leveled Ritualist, so this is the first time I noticed this:
When creating a character above 1st level, you get whatever standard adventuring gear you want. Standard Adventuring gear includes Reagents. If you bought the Ritual "Enchant Magic Item", you can, according to RAW (while merrily bending RAI over a barrel), begin with tons of reagents, enough to make whatever items you wanted (that are your level or less).
(And, for the record, Hzurr, I'm not actually doing this. Just noticed that, by the rules, it can be done.)The Cranky Gamer
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2009-03-30, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
That's pretty much why most RPGs involve a GM.
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2009-03-30, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
what's the problem? a 360 gp +1 magic sword requires 360 gp of reagents to make... this isn't 3rd ed where crafting is at half-cost.
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2009-03-30, 04:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
The problem is this:
To make an item, you need alchemical reagents.
Alchemical reagents are mundane items.
When you begin above level 1, you can have as many mundane items as you wish.
So, when you begin above level 1, you can have as many alchemical reagents as you want.
So, by RAW you could have several hundred thousand million billion trillion gp in alchemical reagents when starting a level 2+ character.
So, you can then use that unreasonably large amount of alchemical reagents to create whatever items you could possibly want.
It's not a make-sell then buy game breaker as it was in 3E; rather it's an exploitation of the wording to get arbitrarily high starting wealth.
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2009-03-30, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
Yeah, it seems like in exchange for having one item of one level lower, one higher and one same level, you can choose anything of an equivalent gold value from any lower levels... so it sounds okay to me. You could have a +2 implement, +2 armor and a +2 neck item... or lack one of those three and have a bunch of boots and helms and stuff.
It only makes sense that you'd get to use rituals before the start of the game... but perhaps I just don't see how this is to be abused.
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2009-03-30, 05:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
you're trying to "bag-o-rats fighter" with rituals, my friend.
the rituals state you need to pay the cost of the item to complete it. generic regeants are free, sure. but to make cast rituals? you gotta pay the price for the particulars.
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2009-03-30, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
It's not really anything to do with reagents. It's just a case of deliberately twisting and taking advantage of the rule, which is clearly intended, though not outright stated, to apply to personal equipment.
According to RAW, you could also start your character out with 10 million suits of full plate, or 50 billion iron rations, or whatever, which you could then sell. But in reality, any GM you tried that on would either disallow it or cause Bad Things to happen to your character, depending on just how sadistic they were.
Common sense > rules.A Butterfly Dreaming - 4e monks and other roleplaying stuff
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2009-03-30, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-03-30, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
Ritual Components aren't free, they just don't have a set cost. You use an amount that costs whatever amount the ritual costs to cast.
Also, when starting a higher level character, you don't get infinite mundane wealth. You get your starting magic items, plus gp equal to a magic item of your Level - 1. So this doesn't work.
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2009-03-30, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
A Butterfly Dreaming - 4e monks and other roleplaying stuff
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2009-03-30, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
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2009-03-30, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
*Double checks DMG* Okay, I guess it does say that. But abusing that to get magic items is dumb and clearly goes against the intent that that be used only on mundane equipment. I guess it's not a big deal, since the OP seems to recognize the fact that it doesn't make sense to actually do this.
Also, it has nothing to do with Murphy's Law.
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2009-03-30, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
That's why it says "Murphy's Rule", as in the Murphy's Rules at the back of Dork Tower comics, or over here. It means nonsensical rules.
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2009-03-30, 09:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
Ah, sorry. I don't read comics anymore. And I was mostly just into manga, anyways.
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2009-03-31, 07:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
Well spotted.
That ranks about as high as 3E's rule that you can still walk around while you're dead, because the "dead" condition doesn't specify otherwise.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
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2009-03-31, 09:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
That doesn't work at all. When dead, you're also unconcious. Now, it may be possible to get around that(though simple immunity to nonlethal won't do it, since you still have 0 pts of nonlethal damage), but it is considerably harder than just walking around because the rules don't say you can't.
[/sarcasm]
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2009-03-31, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2009-03-31, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-03-31, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid
It does make you helpless, though, which means you have an effective Dex of 0 which makes you paralyzed which prevents you from taking physical actions.
But being dead or unconscious does not stop you from taking purely mental actions.
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2009-03-31, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2009-03-31, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
Man this thing was full of outdated stuff.
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2009-03-31, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2009-03-31, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4e] Enchant Item Murphy's Rule
This reminds me of how you can use the Wealth DC system of d20 Modern to acquire infinite wealth right at level 1. Silly game developers! Never give players an infinite supply of *anything* (regardless of how "worthless" you might think it is,) because they will convert that infinite number to $$$ somehow.