[3.5] Prydain Chronicles

[slexlollar89]

Hey everyone. I have a quick question, and a very complicated one.

Has anyone read any/all of the prydain chronicles?

If so, ho would you stat the characters like Taran, Ruhn, Eilonwy, Gurgi, and flewdyr with 3.5 rules? has anyone else onsidered doing this too?

[Jerthanis]

I have in fact read the Prydain Chronicles, and thoroughly love them. Without having read the Prydain Chronicles as a child, I wouldn't be playing fantasy RPGs today.

Fflewdyr self-describes himself as a Bard, but he never quite made it into the Bard Order, so I'd call him a Rogue... probably straight Rogue 3-4 in fact.

Gurgi is a wildcreature with intimate connections to the animal world... but doesn't tend to show "Gurgi Smash" style bouts of rage, so I'd say Ranger... but without spellcasting or an animal companion, so probably the Complete Warrior nonmagic variant at the least.

I don't remember anything Prince Rhun did of note, but he was a Prince, so I'd guess Aristocrat.

Coll was a Paladin, I'd say, and so was Gwydion.

Eilonwy is probably the worst fit into the rules of anyone, because of her unique backstory and what happens in the books. I'd say in book 1 she's a Sorcerer or Wizard 1, then later takes Fighter levels and eventually decides to retrain her Sorcerer level over to Fighter as well.

Taran is probably the highest level and least effective of the group, considering how many fights he loses in the first 3 books. Probably Commoner 1/Fighter 1/Ranger 4(just for the gwythaint familiar really)/Expert 2-3 (Free commots training)

[Fiery Diamond]

I'd say those classes are pretty good fits. I loved those books too. Eilonwy (once she stopped being so much of a brat, anyway) was one of my favorite characters. I liked Gurgi, too. And everybody's favorite bard was cool too. Taran...Taran was kind of a wuss.

[Draz74]

Awesome series. I re-read part of them just last week.

One thing to realize is that they're in a very gritty, low-level-focused system. At the beginning of the Black Cauldron, Taran is recruited to the effort because he's one of the better warriors in all the land ... just because of his adventures in The Book of Three. He's Level 2 or 3 at that point, and he's one of the better warriors. Wow. And nobody really does anything to show that they're higher than Level 6 (except via artifacts or rituals -- tearing apart the whole Castle of Llyr for example, or brewing a Permanent Enlarge Monster potion). I'd even say the E6 rules would be a good fit, since mighty heroes who have fought for many decades still seem "capped" at about this level of power.

Gwydion is a perfect example of a Level 6 Ranger, complete with minor spellcasting and an animal companion (horse). Except he's not really very focused on either TWF or archery.

Taran just acts like a Fighter in combat, but his skills are better than a Fighter's. Fighter/Ranger might be good (he clearly has Animal Empathy), but that doesn't explain how he eventually gets pretty good at Diplomacy and Sense Motive. Maybe Warblade/Ranger?

Eilonwy ... well, obviously the magic system isn't really Vancian. But Aristocrat/Sorcerer is about as close as you're going to get.

Gurgi is not a PHB race, obviously. Something with +2 STR, -2 INT, +1 Natural Armor, a Listen bonus, no Level Adjustment but one Racial Hit Die of Humanoid would be perfect. Then he takes more levels in ... Wilderness Rogue or Scout? He's never really a warrior, more of a dirty opportunistic skirmisher.

Doli is a Feytouched Dwarf Fighter, with some minor house rules made to the Feytouched template (+1 LA, no SLAs except Invisibility, which becomes at-will).

Fflewdur ... good luck. In some ways he's the iconic Bard (I'm pretty sure he's half the reason for the Bard's alignment restriction). But he hates magic and is never an official bard and eventually gets an Animal Companion. Confusing.

[slexlollar89]

I really liked Taran, adn yeah he is a bit of a wuss, but he still is the best charcter simply because he actually grows over the novel... he started lame, but after he gets Adaon's brooch, and also after Taran Wanderer he was really neat as a character and a concept for one.

I was actually going to make Gurgi justa monster class... I was thinking monstrous humanoid, fey, or magical beast... the last one is a bit of a stretch... I'l prolly go with monstrous humanoid...

Taran actually caught me as a streight expert throughout the series (the variant from unearthed arcana).
Eilonwy seemed to me to a be a bit more wizardish (she was very intelligent, but then again she was really charismatic too...) than sorcoress because she needed to study to be magical... sometimes anyway. Maybe she was a wizard 1, fighter X?
Gwydion was tough... but ranger seems to work relly well... I can't believ I didn't se it before! I was going to say something like human paragon fighter or human paragon palladin
Flewdyr has to be bard... at least mechanically... although he doesn't ever cst spells... he probably just never casts because of his fear of enchantments

What do you guys think abou the other characters too? like Achren, Dalben, the Horned King (COOLEST BBEG EVER just for mysteriousness) and Arwaan or however you spell it...?

EDIT: oh man, I re-read the Black Cauldron, and that prince that Taran hates, he lifted a horse at one point (and the cauldron too by himself!) so I wiki'd horse weights and cross referenced the carrying overhead vs strength, and he woul have a strength score of AT LEAST 25!!!

Also, who else though King Smoit was awesome? was it just me?

[Chronos]

Eilonwy is probably the worst fit into the rules of anyone, because of her unique backstory and what happens in the books. I'd say in book 1 she's a Sorcerer or Wizard 1, then later takes Fighter levels and eventually decides to retrain her Sorcerer level over to Fighter as well.

I'd put her as Sorcerer, since her magic is innate rather than from books, and take her into Arcane Archer (she binds spells to arrows a time or two).

And Taran might be a good fit as a Marshal: He doesn't do all that much himself, so much as he inspires others.

[LibraryOgre]

This is where you use E6.

I'd put Gwydion as a 6th level Ranger, with a couple of advancements. Coll is pure fighter. Adaon is a bard.

Taran, in the beginning, doesn't really have a class... he's what 2nd edition would call a 0th level human. I'd put him at a 1st level Ranger in the beginning of Black Cauldron, and a 4 Ranger by the end of The High King. (experienced, but not top of the world). He might be 6th, with the leadership feat.

Fflewdurr is probably best represented by an Aristocrat. He went into barding from being a king. He went back to being a king from being a bard. His breadth of knowledge and skill covers pretty well with Aristocrat.

Gurgi I'd probably make a goblin Expert. Maybe a wilderness rogue, given that his fighting style largely consisted of hitting people when they didn't expect it.

Eilonwy is a sorceress/aristocrat. Achren (a 6th level sorceress with many advancements; she's a fallen demi-god, after all) was training her to be a sorceress, but Dalben (a 6th level wizard or druid, with multiple advancements) moved her into aristocracy.

Doli is a fighter from a fey race... essentially gnomes, but with Invisibility as an at-will SLA.

I love those books. I found a hardcover of all of them about a decade ago for $5... definitely worth it.

[dspeyer]

I can't see Fflewddur as an aristocrat. ISTR he admitted that one of the reasons he goes adventuring so much is that he knows perfectly well his people do better without him. Even at the end, he doesn't try to raise an army -- just bring himself.

He could be statted as either a bard or a rogue. His knowledge suggests bard, and he uses the fascinate ability on Llyan, but he has no actual spellcasting. Either way, he's pretty low level: probably second or third by the last book.

[quick_comment]

I dont really see Gwydion as a ranger. Id say Knight or Crusader 4/Marshal something. With a race (he is a son of Dawn) that gives him some minor spell like abilities.

[Salvonus]

Ooh! I love those books!

Not sure what the character classes would be, though. Perhaps Taran qualifies as a Generic Expert? I'd say his Level 1 bonus feat was Wild Empathy, just given his interactions with the natural world in The Book of Three. I'm not sure he ever actually leaves that class, to be honest.

Gurgi... Ah, my favourite character. I'd say he's (if not a homebrew race) a Shifter (from Eberron). Shifting would be what he uses when he goes into smitings and bitings mode. I think he'd be a Wildhunt Shifter, if only because of his sense of smell. Other possibilities would be Razorclaw (smitings), Longtooth (bitings), or Beasthide (Gurgi's physical resilience).

Somebody should make an E6 PbP campaign based on Prydain.

[slexlollar89]

What's this E6 everyone here mentions? I was going to try to do this whole thing with DnD 3.5, or True20, which is essentially the same thing but with damage conditions rather than HP, and relatively balanced spellcasting.

I think I'm going to Homebrew Gurgi as a monstrous humanoid I think. He is always described by others as being not quite man and not quite beast... I think it was that Medwyn guy...

Does anyone else think Kaw should have a really high int score, and a few rogue levels?

[Draz74]

What's this E6 everyone here mentions?

It's a D&D 3.5 variant, where you never get higher than 6th Level. After you get to 6th level, you gain bonus feats instead of additional levels. Great for simulating many fantasy novels, Prydain (and LotR IMHO) especially. Stands for "Epic 6," because characters are considered epic at Level 6 and up.

Shifter actually seems like a pretty great fit for Gurgi. Is there a Shifter subrace with a Listen bonus? Because the books mention Gurgi's keen ears many times. So, Shifter Scout?

My personal bias for Generic Classes rules aside, yeah, it does seem like they'd be an especially good fit for these characters. Wild Empathy for Taran, Animal Companion for Fflewdur ...

I think by the end of the series, most of the main characters would be at least 5th level. Not just level 3-4 like someone mentioned for Fflewdur. Leadership at the end of the series does seem very appropriate for Taran. Perhaps Kaw is his Cohort?

I guess I could see both Taran and Fflewdur as just Generic Experts, though. Or maybe Fflewdur has 1 level of real Bard, for Fascinate. (Bard cantrips can generally be re-fluffed to seem non-magical.)

Dallben is no Druid. You want a Druid (Level 6, with lots of Epic feats)? Medwyn. Medwyn!

Dallben is a Wizard (though with some druid spells houserule-added to his spell list).

Doli is much more of a Dwarf than a Gnome. Like I said, a Dwarf with a template similar to Feytouched. An LA +1 template that gives Invisibility (at 3 HD or so), plus a few other minor perks.

[slexlollar89]

This E6 thing sounds very interesting. Where can I get ahold of it?

Yeah Medwyn is probably epic, as he is epically awesome. Glw seems like gnome more and more considering his alchemy fixation and penchant for becoming taller.

[Chronos]

Dallben is a Wizard (though with some druid spells houserule-added to his spell list).

Yeah, I didn't think there could really be any doubt about that. What druid would spend all of his time poring over some book?

What about the fellow from Taran Wanderer (I can't remember his name, and I seem to have lent my books out to someone) who was always making his own luck? There doesn't seem to be any class that quite fits him, though there certainly should be.

And while E6 does seem a good fit for Prydain, I just can't see it for Lord of the Rings. What sixth-level character can take down 60 enemies in one battle without breaking a sweat?

[Jerthanis]

What about the fellow from Taran Wanderer (I can't remember his name, and I seem to have lent my books out to someone) who was always making his own luck? There doesn't seem to be any class that quite fits him, though there certainly should be.

I think there isn't a class because his whole paradigm was, "Be aware of the abilities you have and use them in clever ways."

He wasn't the best at wilderness lore or fighting, but he was a good engineer, so he built mechanisms and tools to make life easier... but when Taran, who was good at wilderness lore came along, he taught Taran how to use his wilderness lore and other skils to their fullest... not necessarily how to engineer like he did.

What do you guys think abou the other characters too? like Achren, Dalben, the Horned King (COOLEST BBEG EVER just for mysteriousness) and Arwaan or however you spell it...?

Also, who else though King Smoit was awesome? was it just me?

The Horned King was cool at first, but I tend to think villains who die when you just draw a sword and pass out get pretty much kicked off the Cool BBEG tower... even if that sword is Drynwyn.

And Smoit was awesome.

Orwen, Ordu and Orgach? The only thing I can even conceive of them being in an RPG sense would be Fair Folk from Exalted. If I had to put them in 3.5, they'd probably be some kind of Doppleganger Adepts, or Wizards of some stripe.

[LibraryOgre]

Orwen, Ordu and Orgach? The only thing I can even conceive of them being in an RPG sense would be Fair Folk from Exalted. If I had to put them in 3.5, they'd probably be some kind of Doppleganger Adepts, or Wizards of some stripe.

Orwen, Ordu, and Orgach are, for all intents and purposes, deities.

And E6 can be found here: http://esix.pbwiki.com/

[Draz74]

This E6 thing sounds very interesting. Where can I get ahold of it?

Here is the thread where the most recent version of it was "born." Here, if the link works, is a PDF with all the basic rules in a nice package. Somewhere, there's another website that has a whole bunch of homebrewed feats specifically designed for E6. Though it's easy enough to come up with your own.

And while E6 does seem a good fit for Prydain, I just can't see it for Lord of the Rings. What sixth-level character can take down 60 enemies in one battle without breaking a sweat?

Um ... a Wizard who casts two fireballs on a swarm of mooks? Even a warrior type can probably do it just fine if the enemies are CR 1/2 orcs. Especially if it's a well-built warrior type ... ToB material or whatever ...

The thing that's great about molding LotR into E6 is, it explains how an epic spellcaster who's been adventuring for centuries, some upstart new adventurers, and everything in between can all be in the same battle and (to various extents) contribute.

I think there isn't a class because his whole paradigm was, "Be aware of the abilities you have and use them in clever ways."

He wasn't the best at wilderness lore or fighting, but he was a good engineer, so he built mechanisms and tools to make life easier... but when Taran, who was good at wilderness lore came along, he taught Taran how to use his wilderness lore and other skils to their fullest... not necessarily how to engineer like he did.

Hmmm, Llonio. Yeah, if there was a Fortune's Friend base class, maybe that would work ... but really his talents are more things that you would roleplay than things that would be class features.

The Horned King was cool at first, but I tend to think villains who die when you just draw a sword and pass out get pretty much kicked off the Cool BBEG tower... even if that sword is Drynwyn.

Heh. Well, technically, it was Gwydion saying his name that wiped him out, not Dyrnwyn's influence. Still, yeah, lame.

And Smoit was awesome.

Yep. Obviously a Fighter with a Barbarian dip.

Orwen, Ordu and Orgach? The only thing I can even conceive of them being in an RPG sense would be Fair Folk from Exalted. If I had to put them in 3.5, they'd probably be some kind of Doppleganger Adepts, or Wizards of some stripe.

Demigod version of Hags? I don't think it's a coincidence that there are 3 of them, and that the MM1 presents Hags in a trio ... both Prydain and D&D are borrowing off some common folklore here, methinks.

[slexlollar89]

I like the Horned King concept a lot, and his description was always good. Besides, we all know what happens when people say truenames... hell, look at Orcus/Tenebrous!

I pegged Llonio (or however you spell it) as a feat rogue... he just has a lot of craft skills, and a maybe a a few proffessions. Plus, he gets killed so we know he has low Hit Dice.

The thre sisters sort of pegged me as powerful outsiders rather than gods. I mean they even say they don't care about influencing the world or what the future is, just how things are... not very Deity like IMHO.