GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

ErrantX pretty much covered everything I had to say, Gareth. There seem to be no glaring weak points in this class, and if there are any flaws, the awesomeness covers them so well that I can barely find them.

The only thing I'm concerned about is the +4 to the DC of necromancy spells. +4 seems a little potent, especially since a class with such a necromantic focus may well spring for Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus. I'd put the DC bonus at +2 rather than +4, but that's the only change I'd make.

I'll keep an eye on it though...I may have missed something. That said, barring a truly impressive class popping up, you may well have just won my vote.

[ErrantX]

Kellus and TSED, I will critique yours sometime this evening. Don't think that I'm playing favorites or anything :P TSED, yours for example, made me laugh out loud several times :D

Expect my reviews this evening!

-X

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Don't think that I'm playing favorites or anything...

Gareth and I don't think...

...we know.




...kidding, of course.

[DracoDei]

Clumping the levels together in twos every other level offends my mathmatical sensibilities. Other than that... I will have to read more closely...

[ErrantX]

@TSED:

Okay, my review of your class, take it or leave it. First off, this is one of the funniest classes I've ever read. Like, seriously, I lol'd all over the place. Well done, very witty. The fluff is both amusing and constructive to the crunch.

A New Direction is a potent ability in that it adds new possibilities to a character's limited spells known so always a good plus for bards. Less Taxing is also quite potent, due to the fact that there are some bardic music feats like Ironskin Chant that could get a lot more mileage, but as it's bard based, it's not overwhelming. Angry Fans is a good way to get small change, and Manufactured Sound is a great class feature. Opens up a lot of doors without having to take some crappy feats.

Hate Mail made me almost die laughing. It's potent, free magic goodies, but they can't be sold or fed to an artificer for anything so it's great. Just awesome :D

I'm not familiar enough with Luck feats to say anything about it, but it's probably not a bad deal. Corporate Tools is cool, but some DM's don't allow Leadership. That being said, I still don't think it's a problem. Interview Expert is great, I like it, but Shunned is a bit strong. The invisibility thing is strong, but very specific so I'd let it go in my games. Lawsuit is freakin' AWESOME :D

Corporate Zombies and Sold Out are totally fine as well. I dig em.

All in all, a hilarious class. I laughed quite a lot when reading it with my wife. Thank you :)

@Kellus:

Interesting fluff, I see you're going for a 'fallen wilder' sort of thing? Interesting idea, it's nice to see someone doing something with that class. It's woefully bad. Anyhow...

Divided Mind is real strong, but... as you're wilder based, it becomes a little more reasonable. The drawbacks from taking damage also help offset this to make it a very reasonable and balanced ability, in my eye. Subconscious Wild Surge is a great ability, helps offset the ML loss for the lower mind, Wilder needs Expanded Knowledge like fighters need more to do :D

Surge of Rationality is great, as is Redundancy. Thought Process is friggin' awesome, great flavor to it. Suppress Passions is a good class feature, and the capstone is both potent and distinct for the class. Fits quite awesomely.

All in all, I love the class. As far as fitting into the theme of the contest, while it isn't what I was looking for, I still think it's great and definitely fits the spirit of it. I'd like to see some more fluff on the class and see more on where this class came from, and how people react to them. I think that will go a long way towards making this fit the Fallen, but not Forgotten theme. Good work!

-X

[Lord_Gareth]

I've fixed the mechanics and added the "casting time" for Create Haunting, as well as splitting up Call the Ancients. Thank'ee kindly for the PEACHes :D

As far as Life and Death goes, they just gain the undead type, with all the benefits and drawbacks thereof - effectively meaning that a Child can bring you back up to twice at (almost) no cost: once when you die as a living being, and then again if you die as an undead one.

[Lord_Gareth]

And my fluff is now finished! YAY!

[Kellus]

Hmm. I really like the Children, but a few things caught my attention–

• In a few places you refer to the class as the Tomb Orphan, which I assume was the previous name of the class.

EDIT: Duh, I just saw in your fluff that Tomb Orphan is an alternate name for the class. That'll teach me to skip straight to the crunch. Objection withdrawn!

• Charnal Touch adds inflict spells to your class spell list, but those spells are already from the school of necromancy, so they're already on his spell list as a result of Rite of Passage. In addition, "inflict" isn't a descriptor for the spell, it's just part of the spell name.

• How long is the duration of Wake the Slumbering Mind? If it's permanent, it should probably say so.

• The Bone Orchard mentions it can be destroyed, but it doesn't explain how. Similarly, it says that the Child can infuse an undead with negative energy once per round, but it doesn't say what type of action that is.

• On another note for Bone Orchard, it says it creates a "forty foot circle". Is that a 40ft. radius or a 40ft. diameter circle?

• Does Destruction to Rebirth occur immediately, or does the creature that died need to wait at all before it can be reborn? As it stands, it sounds like if you kill someone with an inflict light wounds spell, they can immediately choose to turn into a ghoul on your turn. Is that how it's supposed to work?

• I read your reply to ErrantX, but I'm still a little unclear on Life and Death. When they're brought back as an undead, do they lose their Con score and gain tons of immunities and everything, or is it just in name only? If they do change their stats, you should probably refer to a template like Necropolitan so people know what to apply to their characters.

Otherwise, this looks like a really fun, flavourful class! Great job!

-=-

Thanks for the review, ErrantX. I know the class is a little different from what was intended for the contest, but I wanted to try making a "fallen" character who had abandoned something other than just an alignment. In this case, a wilder who has abandoned their emotions. I'll get more of the fluff done so you can get the feel of the class, but I'm glad you liked it!

[ErrantX]

And my fluff is now finished! YAY!

Excellent, well done!

-X

[Lord_Gareth]

Hmm. I really like the Children, but a few things caught my attention–

• In a few places you refer to the class as the Tomb Orphan, which I assume was the previous name of the class.

EDIT: Duh, I just saw in your fluff that Tomb Orphan is an alternate name for the class. That'll teach me to skip straight to the crunch. Objection withdrawn!

• Charnal Touch adds inflict spells to your class spell list, but those spells are already from the school of necromancy, so they're already on his spell list as a result of Rite of Passage. In addition, "inflict" isn't a descriptor for the spell, it's just part of the spell name.

And here I thought they were Conjuration. Thanks for being consistent, WotC! *******s...

• How long is the duration of Wake the Slumbering Mind? If it's permanent, it should probably say so.

Can do.

• The Bone Orchard mentions it can be destroyed, but it doesn't explain how. Similarly, it says that the Child can infuse an undead with negative energy once per round, but it doesn't say what type of action that is.

Swift action, and they're trees. Smash them like you would smash trees.

• On another note for Bone Orchard, it says it creates a "forty foot circle". Is that a 40ft. radius or a 40ft. diameter circle?

Diameter; edit forthcoming.

• Does Destruction to Rebirth occur immediately, or does the creature that died need to wait at all before it can be reborn? As it stands, it sounds like if you kill someone with an inflict light wounds spell, they can immediately choose to turn into a ghoul on your turn. Is that how it's supposed to work?

Eh, I'll put in a 24 hour delay.

• I read your reply to ErrantX, but I'm still a little unclear on Life and Death. When they're brought back as an undead, do they lose their Con score and gain tons of immunities and everything, or is it just in name only? If they do change their stats, you should probably refer to a template like Necropolitan so people know what to apply to their characters.

...You're undead, with the benefits and drawbacks of the type. Undead don't have con scores. Undead have D12 hit die. Undead have [rest of undead stuff here]. How complicated can it possibly be?

Otherwise, this looks like a really fun, flavourful class! Great job!

Thank'ee ^_^

[Khatoblepas]

Posted the Illuminated Priest's mechanics. Working on the fluff now. x3

[DeskChairLamp]

I've just posted the first draft for the Drifting Petal Ascendant.

[Lord_Gareth]

Anyone else noticed that our newest contest has yet to be stickied?

[ErrantX]

Not for lack of trying. I've PM'd a few mods to do it and they just either haven't gotten around to it, forgot, or don't care to.

Either way, I'll keep trying.

-X

[Lord_Gareth]

A sidebar on the Children's beliefs has been added to the "Playing a Child of the Mausoleum" section.

[Pramxnim]

I've submitted my entry, the Sin Knight. This is very much a work in progress and it will see many updates as I work out the kinks in the design and fill in the fluff.
Feedback is much appreciated, as always!

EDIT: The crunch is now done. Fluffy time awaits! (anyone spot the reference?)

[ErrantX]

I like the added fluff Gareth, nice stuff.

I've got 3 new prestige classes that I am eagerly awaiting the finishing of so I may PEACH them properly. Great starts to all three of them. Sin Knight is particularly interesting to me because of the 7 paths it offers. Good stuff!

-X

[Pramxnim]

And....... the fluff is done!
God I hate making sample characters, especially high level ones

I'm really glad with the way Raven turned out to be though , I might convince one of my friends to use her in a future campaign .

Did no one get the fluffy time reference?

[Samb]

I've put in my entry, the partitioned mind. This is a wilder who has forsaken the emotional and uncontrollable nature of her powers and sealed all of her emotions into a corner of her mind far from her conscious thoughts.

I liked this entry a lot but some things could be improved on. First, the name is a class feature of sanctified mind.

A permanent schismed mind could make for a very power PrC, and with wild surge and practised manifester allows you to manifest powers at full power all the time. But that being said, this PrC needs to be BETTER than schism or there is no point in picking it to begin with. And I have to say divided mind did not do that. I'll start at the top:

As a wilder entry the 1/2 BAB is not good at all. Most wilders play gish and 3/4 as gish is bad enough. Nice that you had wild surge progression but where is the surging euphoria progression?

The requirements are way too steep for a wilder also. 3 powers from telepathy is only doable for a telepath or a wilder that has taken cognition thief PrC. And a Synad with levels in cognition thief would have schism with extended power on it already and might benefit more just completing that PrC in favor of this one. Even if you used a mantled or educated variant (found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) the power investment for a wilder is prohibitive.

As a telepath entry this is a lot easier, but again divided mind loses a lot of its appeal since you can manifest and pick schism already without EK.

Schism lets you use all your PP too, not divided up, which is better than saving that 7 PP. Sure you save time, but most likely you would have manifested schism under temporal accel, or linked power to start with. Again, divided mind is inferior to schism in that you can't use wild surge with your upper mind. It's true that most wilders surge under schism to bypass ennervation but I like having the option to surge twice if i have to.

The bonus EK is nice, and the makes up for the lose of EK from the educated variant, but its upper mind only. Again these are all un-surgeable, and hence more expensive to put metapsionic feats on for a wilder that is used to using wild surges to pay for them (like me).

Your capstone is confusing, since the lower mind can't do move actions to begin with.

As it stands, I just don't see why this really benefits a psion or wilder since schism or synad multitask would be better. I never underestimate a psion with wild surge (not overchannel) but dividing up your PP seems like a bad idea.

It has potential but you need to really make the divided mind feature better than schism or I just don't see the point, and losing BAB is just plain bad.


Quick and dirty why to build a wilder (by yours truly):
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=4368.0
I don't know how you play wilder (not many people do), but here's the few tid-bits I got from the CO boards and my own experience.

[Khatoblepas]

The Illuminated Priest is now all fluffed up with no place to go. I'd like some PEACH on it :3

[DeskChairLamp]

Drifting Petal Ascendant's done, aside from the sample encounter. Nonetheless, ready for PEACHing.

[Samb]

Oh and lulz on the sellout. That might just get my vote for just being plain awesome.

[Bhu]

Can we do an Epic level PrC?

I have a couple of ideas and one is epic

[boomwolf]

Nothing says you cant.

Nice contest, can i resubmit my IX entry? (:P)

Anyways, got an idea.

Healer of the Dead.

Name is very confusing, per see-its not a livign healing the dead, its a dead healing the living! (by some very, very noble means, sacrificing his own hitpoint, his capstone ability I have in mind is actually potentially fatal even in full health!)

[ErrantX]

I will check out those three classes tonight and PEACH them. As far as Epic, go nuts. Nothing says you can't. :)

-X

[Samb]

I was going to pass on this contest especially since there is a psionic entry in already but inspiration has struck me!

I was thinking of a Dexter like character, a psychopath that masquades as law enforcement to try and satisfy has homicidial tendancies only tobe unsatisfied and takes matters into his own hands. Would that qualify for a fallen character? He follows the code of law enforcement as a facade but betrays it in spirit.

Maybe go for inquisitor or rogue entry. Is that kosher for this contest?

[ErrantX]

I was going to pass on this contest especially since there is a psionic entry in already but inspiration has struck me!

I was thinking of a Dexter like character, a psychopath that masquades as law enforcement to try and satisfy has homicidial tendancies only tobe unsatisfied and takes matters into his own hands. Would that qualify for a fallen character? He follows the code of law enforcement as a facade but betrays it in spirit.

Maybe go for inquisitor or rogue entry. Is that kosher for this contest?

I dig it. Go for it!

I'm actually working on a couple of different things in relation to this contest, but sadly, as I am running it and it would be sort of a conflict of interest, I obviously won't be posting it in the contest thread. But when I get done with it, look for it!

-X

[Samb]

Hmm I can't think of what the entry class should be for my Dexter class. Maybe factotum or rogue since they have the skill set, but none of them give that detective/batman feel. Sneak attack certainly has that serial killer feel though...
I think I have the class features down though just need an entry class.

[Pramxnim]

Homebrew a base-class to go with your PrC?

[Aergoth]

I think I managed to get all of it together, my PrC is posted. The Knight-Revanent is set.