GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread

[DracoDei]

Wow... I must be precognitive... I send you an idea a week or two ago via PM. I take it you didn't like it that much?

[ErrantX]

@Khatoblepas

Okay, I like the concept, the healer that just takes it a little too far. I get it. The Healing Hands class feature is a Healer class thing, I presume. The first thing I notice is that it's rather intensive to enter. You either have to be a paladin (lousy healer), healer (lousy healer), or a multiclass ex-paladin or ex-healer / cleric. While having a prestige class that is built on mutliclassing is not at all out there, having a prestige class built on multiclassing classes you can't do anything with anymore is a little different. If the goal is straight up healer (the second optimal class), then that's fine. Also, the exalted Vows required to get in... no. That's a bad idea. Because you're asking your prospect to bow a couple feats that they can't ever use again and gain absolutely nothing to show of it from their class features. If the features of the class actually returned them or changed them, I'd say go. But otherwise, this is a bad idea. Lastly, the human sacrifice? Really? Where does this fit into the rest of the class? Why? More detail on the Rite would help tons!

On to the crunch. Your class features are all around pretty good, actually. In fact, I don't think I have a single bad thing to say about any of them. They're not overpowered, they're very reasonable and flavorful. They help set the tone of the class and provide with a potent basis to re-empower an ex-healer (and make them tons more worthwhile).

To the fluff: It's good stuff man. Arrogant, full of themselves and utterly believing in their insane methodology that life is more important than people. This is a prime example of being so good you're evil. This is really good. Outside of your clunky entry requirements, I really have to say this is a great class.

@DeskChairLamp

First off: I love the picture. Beautiful artwork. Good find there (or especially good work if you're the one who made it!). Your opening is very well put together, gives a great flow into the class. The requirements are sound, but I'd suggest either picking one or two of those feats and just make those the requirements. But that's MHO. I love your code of conduct system for this class, it gives a great "Fallen from Order" feel. Your Ascensions are beautifully named and interesting, and the soul abilities (giving the definite Eastern feel to the class, of rogue samurai who master their ki energy) are useful and makes former paladins incredibly bad ass (if they're even former!).

My only quibble is with Sakura Ascension, and it's on the stat boost. It's unusual for a stat boost to be a simple +1, I'd say a +2 to one of those stats (player's choice), and honestly, I'd either make it a bonus to Charisma or to Wisdom.

Also the retaining of certain abilities from Samurai and Knight is great, I'd suggest making one for paladin too (they don't get enough love).

Otherwise, this is an awesome class. Great job!

@Pramxnim

Love the pic, and love the concept. This is really cool. The fluff is good, but my only question is where to Sin Knights learn their neat tricks from? Devils? From other Sin Knights? Or is it all from inspiration? That's where I'm lost. I see that there is rumor of organization, but... I think there needs to be more here. I'd also require them to be any non-good, and/or any non-lawful.

For the Sin powers:
Envy: It's first level is too strong, in my opinion. The shapechanger subtype opens it up to Warshaper cheese. I'd give the subtype, if at all, to the level 7 ability.
Gluttony: It's bite is really strong, perhaps a little too strong. I'd say just tone everything down with that. I'm also really seeing non-good at best for the alignment restriction from just this one.
Greed: is great :)
Lust: is even better ;)
Pride: is awesome too. Good stuff, makes for a more Knightly Sin Knight.
Sloth: is neat, and I'm glad that unless you focus on sloth, your sinful indulgence in it only works so well.
Wrath: This is fun stuff.

Sinful indulgence is needed, definitely, too much fun to pick from. Augment Sinful ability is awesome as well.

This is a great class with good fluff and strong abilities. I'd just suggest putting some alignment restrictions on it.


@Aergoth

It's like Ghostrider meets Spawn and had Lord Soth as a love child. It's pretty neat. I was dubious at first, but as I read it (sadly, it is hard to read due to non-boldings on ability headings) I found it very interesting.

Honestly, I have thing bad to say about the class features. The sword is a bit strong, but it's fun so I'd leave it in there. This allows the fallen hero type who died to come back, i.e. let's a player keep playing their character, and that's awesome. Good work.

Just because I don't have a lot to say, doesn't mean it's not bad, it means that I can't pick it apart because there isn't anything wrong with it.

More in a bit.
-X

[ErrantX]

@Samb

While I love Dexter and love love love the character Dexter Morgan, I find it hard to imagine actually playing it as a PC. It would constantly divorce you from the rest of the party to have to go out and kill bad guys in a malicious sort of way. That being said, it makes for an awesome NPC class.

The ability to have two alignment types, un-traceability, etc are all absolutely necessary to the class and are not overpowering. They make the man, so to speak. It's very well put together and very simple to understand and utilize. I'd even consider making this guy an entire adventure set to try to catch (Dexter, Season 2!)

@Kornaki

Your class took me a few minutes to wrap my head around. I must say that I could be a scary ultimate magus based sorcerer on this class. That being said, I like what I see. The wizard turn over abilities are potent, but if I'm reading them right it's not overly so. My only question is on the 4-5 ability: If I have Spell Mastery in a spell, I can cast as a sorcerer as if it were a spell known? If that's true, then yay! A point to that feat! My only other suggestion is that instead of a +1 Int twice, have the character treat his Int as 2 points higher on those levels (like with the feat Spellcasting Prodigy) but not actually improve the attribute. I just think it needs something else in the earlier levels of the class, but I don't know what.

Simple and good. Nice work!

@Bergor Terraf

I think you just made Barbarian better by making it lawful. While I enjoy the concept, I'm not sure if I can really say it's a great class because it doesn't strike me as being a lawful barbarian; it strikes me as a barbarian who spends points to do crazy rage things. Honestly, without taking it the drawing board again I'm unfortunately unable to say one thing or the other. If this was a Monk class and it was refluffed and renamed I'd say it was awesome. But as a Barbarian class, I think it falls short. Sorry :(

@PairO'Dice Lost

I think I have to agree with Realms of Chaos completely; incredibly awesome all aspects, but too strong. I'd say tone some of these abilities down (just a little, nothing drastic) and this is absolutely perfect.

[ErrantX]

Alrighty! That wraps up my reviews. Contest closes at midnight tonight. Voting begins tomorrow.

-X

[ErrantX]

Voting is up!

-X

[Khatoblepas]

@Khatoblepas
Also, the exalted Vows required to get in... no. That's a bad idea. Because you're asking your prospect to bow a couple feats that they can't ever use again and gain absolutely nothing to show of it from their class features.
-X

Maybe I should have clarified it a little bit, but the vow breaking is vow, lower case. Not a feat Vow, but a promise you made. Roleplaying stuff. x3 Someone can have vowed to be a pacifist without having the Vow of Peace - if I required it I would have made it a feat prereq rather than Special. x3

[ErrantX]

Maybe I should have clarified it a little bit, but the vow breaking is vow, lower case. Not a feat Vow, but a promise you made. Roleplaying stuff. x3 Someone can have vowed to be a pacifist without having the Vow of Peace - if I required it I would have made it a feat prereq rather than Special. x3

Gah! Foiled again by case sensitivity! XD

-X

[Lord_Gareth]

So, what's the next contest gonna be?

[ErrantX]

I'm trying to decide that myself actually. I've got two ideas that I'm trying to decide between, and if I have my way, the new contest will be up tonight. At the very least it will be up by the weekend.

-X

[ErrantX]

New contest is up:

Can we Rebuild it? Yes we can!

You theme:

You will be creating an 'original' prestige class. Your class must have its own unique spellcasting or manifesting ability, be it a rebuilding spellcasting class (like the Sublime Chord), a class that has a small but specific set of spells (such as the Blackguard or the Suel Arcanamach), or one that has a whole suite of specific spells (such as the Ur-Priest or Blighter). The class otherwise can have any purpose, such as a holy warrior priest who focuses on healing, a manifesting class that focuses on elemental damage through her weapons, a meldshaper with a specific set of soulmelds for aerial combats, a mystery using shadow-druid with a penchant for duplicity, a martial adept with a small but specific list of invocations to aid his skills, a sneaky rogue that possesses a suite of illusionary spells to get his job done, a sorcerer who learns how to prepare spells and specialize those talents as a wizard, a battlefield controller who inspires his troops and uses walls to design his ideal battleground and so on. You may draw inspiration and rules from any source such as the Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, Magic of Incarnum, and so on and so forth. Just make sure it's original and new; no previous works please.

Enjoy and let us see what we get from you geniuses out there!

-X

[boomwolf]

Soooo.....

A spellcaster with any focus?

Isn't that a bit too open-handed?


I suggest altering the conditions.


If they stay the same-I call dibs on a melee spellcaster (a caster with an armory of melee-reach, anti-melee and melee-enchanting spells.)

[Eurus]

Interesting... I want to do something with Shadow Magic, I think. Perhaps a Shadow Magic-wielding paladin...

[ErrantX]

Soooo.....

A spellcaster with any focus?

Isn't that a bit too open-handed?


I suggest altering the conditions.


If they stay the same-I call dibs on a melee spellcaster (a caster with an armory of melee-reach, anti-melee and melee-enchanting spells.)

So long as it has it's own spellcasting progression within the prestige class. The best basis I can give you for comparisons are things like the Sublime Chord, Ur-Priest, Blackguard, Suel Arcanamach, War Mind, Holy Liberator, Divine Champion, etc. Something that has it's own individual progression for some sort of spells or manifestation.

Go nuts.

I want to keep this stuff as restricted to a theme as I can, while still leaving it open for creativity to run wild. This way, I don't get 5-10 versions of the same class. This way, I get 5-10 truly different and unique classes. That's what I'm going for. And hopefully even more classes than just 5-10!

-X

[Pramxnim]

What about something that seems like spellcasting, but really is not? A different mechanic that refreshes with each encounter?

To be more specific, does something that uses the Token system from Iron Heroes qualify?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Wow. Very open-ended. I like it...although I'll admit the sheer quantity of possibilities is going to make me take a while.

[ErrantX]

What about something that seems like spellcasting, but really is not? A different mechanic that refreshes with each encounter?

To be more specific, does something that uses the Token system from Iron Heroes qualify?

So long as it has a separate mechanic than the simple "+1 to existing class level" stuff, I say go for it. Factotum introduced us to the Inspiration point system, Warlock introduced us to Invocations. If you don't have to write massive blocks of text to show how to use these abilities (because many of us may not have the Iron Heroes books, I know I do not), I say fine. If it is going to require it, I'd suggest either inventing your own mechanics or stay within WotC published materials.

-X

[TSED]

I bet THERE'S an epic level wizard who gets mistaken for the familiar more times than he's comfortable with.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I bet THERE'S an epic level wizard who gets mistaken for the familiar more times than he's comfortable with.

Interesting and unique. I don't have time for a real thorough look now (working on my own class for this thing), but I'd recommend a single change...make the spellcasting table read 1-10, referring to class level. Otherwise it gets confusing if a character puts off entering this class until level 11+.

[TSED]

Interesting and unique. I don't have time for a real thorough look now (working on my own class for this thing), but I'd recommend a single change...make the spellcasting table read 1-10, referring to class level. Otherwise it gets confusing if a character puts off entering this class until level 11+.

Done.

I fully expect to tweak it a few times before the deadline. I keep looking at the Shape/Size warp and thinking "hmm, that should probably be earlier..."

EDIT:: Not to mention I have no idea if the capstone is overpowered or not.

[Owrtho]

Well, not sure about how it would be balance wise, but it seems odd that a reshaped would loose supernatural abilities they had from class levels (makes sense for those from their race). After all, most are more along the lines of spells than extraordinary abilities, and the reshaped keeps their spells.

Owrtho

[TSED]

Well, not sure about how it would be balance wise, but it seems odd that a reshaped would loose supernatural abilities they had from class levels (makes sense for those from their race). After all, most are more along the lines of spells than extraordinary abilities, and the reshaped keeps their spells.

Owrtho

Truth.

Hmm.

It was mostly a way to prevent stacking cheese, though. Imagine if a warlock went in? And kept his invocations, but grabbed all that spellcasting on top?

10th level warlock / 11th level caster gestalt is so not balanced with a typical level 11er. If you can come up with a way to balance it, sure, I'll make changes.

[Pramxnim]

Ah, but Warlock Invocations are Spell-Like Abilities, so... you'd still keep them with the current wording I'm afraid.

To cover your bases, I suggest saying you lose all spellcasting and the ability to use invocations from your classes, and all (Ex) and (Su) abilities from your race. How's that sound?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

The Eerie Traveler is posted...

I'm worried it might be a little underpowered, but I think the power of some of it's invocations (which occasionally have a bit more kick than the traditional Warlock abilities) might make up for it.

Opinions?

[fetfet]

Wyrdmage is up!

[Owrtho]

The Eerie Traveler is posted...

I really like the idea of that class. Also the picture used is fun. Makes me want to play one. As for balance, I'm not sure.

Owrtho

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I really like the idea of that class. Also the picture used is fun. Makes me want to play one. As for balance, I'm not sure.

Owrtho

Awesome. Thanks!

Wyrdmage is up!

While I love the idea, it doesn't seem to have the unique spellcasting/power progression that the contest requires. He mentioned the Sublime Chord (advances spellcasting beyond what the Bard can normally achieve), Ur-Priest (grants a new sort of spellcasting), and others like that. The Wyrdmage seems to just advance casting normally...and thus doesn't qualify for this contest.

Unless I've missed something, of course.

[Salvonus]

Hmm... I'm kinda tempted to make a homebrewing debut in this contest, but I seriously doubt I could make anything good enough to challenge you lot.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Hmm... I'm kinda tempted to make a homebrewing debut in this contest, but I seriously doubt I could make anything good enough to challenge you lot.

Oh please, Sally. You're an incredibly creative person, and pretty much everyone here is willing to help if your mechanics need a bit of a touch-up. I, for one, would love to see what you can whip up.

[mercurymaline]

Alright, I've decided to get involved in all this contest jazz. Pariahmind is posted.

[ErrantX]

Wyrdmage is up!

While I love the idea, it doesn't seem to have the unique spellcasting/power progression that the contest requires. He mentioned the Sublime Chord (advances spellcasting beyond what the Bard can normally achieve), Ur-Priest (grants a new sort of spellcasting), and others like that. The Wyrdmage seems to just advance casting normally...and thus doesn't qualify for this contest.

Unless I've missed something, of course.

This is correct, unfortunately your class is currently not qualified for the contest. While I like the idea behind it, for your class to qualify you're going to need to give its own spellcasting progression that has nothing to do with any base class's progression. Look to classes like the Blackguard, Assassin, Sublime Chord, Blighter, Suel Arcanamach, and many others for examples.

-X