[3.5] Suggestions for a CR ~9 monster.

[Myou]

I'm looking for a fun and unusual monster for my PCs to fight.

The ECL 7-8 PCs are asleep in a Rope Trick space, and when they get up tomorrow they have a trip of about 5-10 miles across feilds and pasture land without much vegitation until they reach their destination at the coast.

The climate is tropical and there's long grass and the odd farm but not much else, can anyone suggest a good CR 9 or so monster for them to face? Hopefully something that will be out of the ordinary and pretty tough, but not unbeatable.

Any published sources are fine (but do let me know what the source is).

Thanks in advance! ^^

[Seffbasilisk]

Warbeast Feral Mineral Warrior Rhinocerous

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Were-Bull. Just because.

[Myou]

Warbeast Feral Mineral Warrior Rhinocerous

Comical template-stacking was not what I had in mind. xD

Were-Bull. Just because.

Are there actualy stats for that somewhere? Is it not just minotaur? o.O

[Eldariel]

Are there actualy stats for that somewhere? Is it not just minotaur? o.O

You can make a Lycanthrope out of any animal IIRC. The rules are right there in the "Lycanthrope"-entry of the MM.

This'd be a bit off-the-wall, but Greater Earth Elemental is CR 9. Give it the Detach-feat from Savage Species and fool around a bit - have it throw Small Earth Elementals at its opponents that try to grab on impact. Note that has nothing to do with the rules and is completely illegal in every way possible, but would probably make for a memorable encounter, especially if you give it Regeneration somehow so it can go underground to regenerate after it's taken enough hits.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Use the Lycanthrope rules with a Bison. Then advance it with 6 Ranger or Barbarian levels. I'd go Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Warshaper 4.

[RTGoodman]

Try the d20SRD.org d20 Monster Filter. Just set it to CR 8-9 and go to town.

Some that I like from that list include: Athach (since no one ever uses them), Behir (but be careful - they can be VERY deadly for their CR), a Gray Render, a Roc, or maybe even a Sphinx of some kind (Androsphinx if your party is neutral or evil, or Gynosphinx otherwise).

[Mr.Bookworm]

Rocs! Fun for the whole family!

And by family, I mean you, and by fun, I mean maniacal cackling due to a +37 Grapple modifier, an 80 foot fly speed, and a monster entry that specifies that grabbing people and swooping off is a Roc's favorite tactic.

I've never done this myself, but I heard a story about a Barbarian that got grabbed by one, after a fight that left the Roc hurt. He managed to get himself out of the claws of the Roc, and climb up onto his back, where he started stabbing. (very well rolled Escape Artist and Climb checks) The Roc, of course, started trying to get him off, but couldn't, so he managed to whittle it down to almost-dead. He was about to take his final swing, when the DM said "Are you sure"? He said of course he was bloody sure. So he killed the Roc, and the DM gently reminded him of the fact that he was three hundred feet up in the air. 20d6 falling damage later, and the Barbarian was a red smear on the ground.

[Myou]

Use the Lycanthrope rules with a Bison. Then advance it with 6 Ranger or Barbarian levels. I'd go Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Warshaper 4.

Well, I'm hoping for a creature I don't have to build myself with class levels, but it could work. :3

You can make a Lycanthrope out of any animal IIRC. The rules are right there in the "Lycanthrope"-entry of the MM.

This'd be a bit off-the-wall, but Greater Earth Elemental is CR 9. Give it the Detach-feat from Savage Species and fool around a bit - have it throw Small Earth Elementals at its opponents that try to grab on impact. Note that has nothing to do with the rules and is completely illegal in every way possible, but would probably make for a memorable encounter, especially if you give it Regeneration somehow so it can go underground to regenerate after it's taken enough hits.

Heh heh, that's pretty cool, I like it, I think I may go with that. :3
What book are greater elementals in?

Try the d20SRD.org d20 Monster Filter. Just set it to CR 8-9 and go to town.

Some that I like from that list include: Athach (since no one ever uses them), Behir (but be careful - they can be VERY deadly for their CR), a Gray Render, a Roc, or maybe even a Sphinx of some kind (Androsphinx if your party is neutral or evil, or Gynosphinx otherwise).

Ohhh, I think a Roc or Gynosphinx will be good!

Hmmm, which to choose, elemental, sphinx or roc?

[Myrmex]

If you want to kill the party one at a time, go with roc.

[RTGoodman]

Heh heh, that's pretty cool, I like it, I think I may go with that. :3
What book are greater elementals in?

Just the normal ol' Monster Manual (and SRD).

Ohhh, I think a Roc or Gynosphinx will be good!

Hmmm, which to choose, elemental, sphinx or roc?

It's up to you, but the Roc is definitely going to be deadly, and the 'Sphinx probably will be too with all of her symbol SLAs.

Here's another idea - two creatures of the same CR make an encounter level equal to their CR +2. So you can pick two CR 6-7 creatures to make an appropriate challenge. My personal pick would be two Bulettes, two Shambling Mounds, or two Wyverns. (Just make sure your party has access to restoration-type spells for the last one - their Con poison is rough.)

[Myou]

Rocs! Fun for the whole family!

And by family, I mean you, and by fun, I mean maniacal cackling due to a +37 Grapple modifier, an 80 foot fly speed, and a monster entry that specifies that grabbing people and swooping off is a Roc's favorite tactic.

I've never done this myself, but I heard a story about a Barbarian that got grabbed by one, after a fight that left the Roc hurt. He managed to get himself out of the claws of the Roc, and climb up onto his back, where he started stabbing. (very well rolled Escape Artist and Climb checks) The Roc, of course, started trying to get him off, but couldn't, so he managed to whittle it down to almost-dead. He was about to take his final swing, when the DM said "Are you sure"? He said of course he was bloody sure. So he killed the Roc, and the DM gently reminded him of the fact that he was three hundred feet up in the air. 20d6 falling damage later, and the Barbarian was a red smear on the ground.

How delicious! X3

Good thing my PCs can cast fly.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd go for some sort of predator that would be lurking in the grass. Maybe just one, maybe more than one depending on what you pick. A Weretiger with four levels of Warshaper (instead of the one Warrior level) would be perfect. Switch Tiger for Dire Lion if it would be more appropriate for the area, it would have slightly different stats at the same CR. Be hiding in animal form, jump out, Pounce, Improved Grab, and try to carry off their target to eat him later. The smaller the target, the better, then they'd probably have to do a little side quest of tracking it down to save their unlucky companion.

[Myou]

Just the normal ol' Monster Manual (and SRD).

Ah, I should really check before asking. xD

It's up to you, and here's another idea - two creatures of the same CR make an encounter level equal to their CR +2. So you can pick two CR 6-7 creatures to make an appropriate challenge. My personal pick would be two Bulettes, two Shambling Mounds, or two Wyverns. (Just make sure your party has access to restoration-type spells for the last one - their Con poison is rough.)

Well, I like single enemies, but a duo of Bulettes or mounds sounds fun. :o

Gah, it's a shame my PCs dont have further to go, I'd like to throw more than one suggestion at them.

[Tehnar]

I would suggest 3-4 babau demons, if you don't mind demons just walking on the beach. Maybe they had some vacation time coming. You could put them in lawn chairs and have them drinking bloody marys (made from real blood of course) as the PCs stumble on them.

Anyway, whatever you chose to set against the PCs, I strongly suggest you have multiple monsters. That way no single monster is too strong, and the encounter does not automatically end if the PCs get lucky or unlucky.

Very few monsters function well as solo's, that is either they are too strong, or not strong enough, and prove to be a real challenge.

[AslanCross]

I'd go with a hydra.

[Graymayre]

Vampiric Were-Tyranosaurus Rex. with proper levels to scale.

Can you imagine a little snail suddenly becoming a gigantic vampiric T-rex? For added fun, make him were-Blue Whale instead!

[wadledo]

It could be because I'm reading Heroes of Horror, but a Lesser Dusk Giant sounds both terrifying and immensely fun.
Pg 147 in Heroes of Horror.

Or a Cadaver Golem.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Here's my suggestion:

Spoiler

Show

Hobbes
Human Weretiger Warshaper 4
Humanoid Form:
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Die: 4d8+6d8+28 (90 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft.
AC: 15 (+2 Dex, +2 Natural, +1 Deflection), Touch 13, Flat-Footed 13
BAB/Grapple: +7/+14
Attack: Unarmed Strike +11 melee (1d3+4)
Full Attack: Unarmed Strike +11/+6 melee (1d3+4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Alternate form, tiger empathy, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +10, Reflex +8, Will +5
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +16, Move Silently +15, Listen +11, Spot +12
Feats: Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (bite), and Improved Natural Attack (claw), Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Multiattack, Iron Will
CR: 8
Alignment: Neutral
Treasure: Ring of Protection +1, Permanent Greater Magic Fang (+1 all, caster level 5), standard coins and goods (in lair)

Hybrid Form:
Size/Type: Large Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Die: 4d8+6d8+38 (100 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 40 ft.
AC: 19 (+4 Dex, +5 Natural, +1 Deflection, -1 Size), Touch 14, Flat-Footed 15
BAB/Grapple: +7/+26
Attack: Unarmed Strike +16 melee (1d4+12), or Claw +16 melee (1d8+12), or Bite +16 melee (2d6+12)
Full Attack: Unarmed Strike +16/+11 melee (1d4+12) and 2 Claws +14 melee (1d8+6) and Bite +14 melee (2d6+6)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Curse of Lycanthropy, Morphic Weapons, Morphic Reach
Special Qualities: Alternate form, tiger empathy, low-light vision, scent, Damage Reduction 10/Silver, Morphic Body, Morphic Immunities, Morphic Healing, Fast Healing 2
Saves: Fort +15, Reflex +10, Will +5
Abilities: Str 32, Dex 18, Con 23, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +14, Move Silently +17, Listen +11, Spot +12
Feats: Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (bite), and Improved Natural Attack (claw), Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Multiattack, Iron Will
CR: 8
Alignment: Neutral
Treasure: Ring of Protection +1, Permanent Greater Magic Fang (+1 all, caster level 5), standard coins and goods (in lair)

Tiger Form:
Size/Type: Large Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger)
Hit Die: 4d8+6d8+38 (100 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 40 ft.
AC: 19 (+4 Dex, +5 Natural, +1 Deflection, -1 Size), Touch 14, Flat-Footed 15
BAB/Grapple: +7/+26
Attack: Unarmed Strike +16 melee (1d6+12), or Claw +16 melee (2d6+12), or Bite +16 melee (3d6+12)
Full Attack: Unarmed Strike +16/+11 melee (1d6+12) and 2 Claws +14 melee (2d6+6) and Bite +14 melee (3d6+6)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Pounce, Improved Grab, Rake, Curse of Lycanthropy, Morphic Weapons, Morphic Reach
Special Qualities: Alternate form, tiger empathy, low-light vision, scent, Damage Reduction 10/Silver, Morphic Body, Morphic Immunities, Morphic Healing, Fast Healing 2
Saves: Fort +15, Reflex +10, Will +5
Abilities: Str 32, Dex 18, Con 23, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +14, Move Silently +17, Listen +11, Spot +12
Feats: Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (bite), and Improved Natural Attack (claw), Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Multiattack, Iron Will
CR: 8
Alignment: Neutral
Treasure: Ring of Protection +1, Permanent Greater Magic Fang (+1 all, caster level 5), standard coins and goods (in lair)

Hobbes is a predator, he avoids humanoid form unless he absolutely must socialize with his food. He stalks his prey in the form of a tiger, using Morphic Weapons to increase his damage upon assuming that form. When attacking a group he typically targets the lightest opponent, either the smallest or the one carrying the least weight. After his initial pounce he attempts to carry them away to be eaten in solitude. He is seldom found in either of his other forms.

Alternate Form (Su)
A weretiger can assume a bipedal hybrid form or the form of a tiger as a standard action.

Morphic Weapons (Su)
When in hybrid or tiger form, Hobbes may spend a move action to increase the damage of one of his natural weapons by one size, included in his statistics block. This can be done at will and will typically be in effect whenever he's encountered. He may also grow additional natural weapons, which deal damage appropriate to his size, though he seldom does so.

Morphic Reach (Su)
When in hybrid or tiger form, Hobbes's reach extends five feet further than normal. Unlike most creatures, he does not appear to have this extended reach until he makes an attack.

Morphic Body (Su)
When in hybrid or tiger form, Hobbes's Strength and Constitution scores are each increased by +4.

Morphic Immunities (Ex)
When in hybrid or tiger form, Hobbes is immune to stunning and critical hits.

Morphic Healing (Su)
When in hybrid or tiger form, Hobbes gains Fast Healing 2. He may also spend a full-round action to attempt a Concentration check (DC equals the total damage he's sustained) to immediately heal 10 points of damage.

Curse of Lycanthropy (Su)
Any humanoid or giant hit by a weretiger’s bite attack in animal or hybrid form must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or contract lycanthropy.

Improved Grab (Ex)
To use this ability, a weretiger in tiger form must hit with a claw or bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake.

Pounce (Ex)
If a weretiger in tiger form charges an opponent, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.

Rake (Ex)
Attack bonus +14 melee, damage 2d6+6.

Tiger Empathy (Ex)
Communicate with tigers and dire tigers, and +4 racial bonus on Charisma-based checks against tigers and dire tigers.

Skills
In any form, weretigers have a +4 bonus on Balance, Hide, and Move Silently checks. *In areas of tall grass or heavy undergrowth, the Hide bonus improves to +8 in the tiger form.

[sonofzeal]

Psion (call it Grey Elf), Shaper, with "Mass Cloud Minds", "Vigor", "Greater Concealing Amorpha", and "Astral Construct". Clouds Minds as soon as they come in, then summons Astral Constructs to keep them busy. If anyone passes the save, he can Cloud Minds again, or just rely on 50% miss chance and his constructs to keep him safe.

Should be able to keep the party on the run for a while and provide for a tactically interesting encounter, but is unlikely to actually kill anyone off; even if they all fail their Cloud Mind saves, they can either use AOE spells to catch the Psion, or just kill off a few Astral Constructs. You might not want to have the Psion taking actions every turn though, and I'd limit him to two active Constructs at a time.

[theMycon]

Hmmm, which to choose, elemental, sphinx or roc?

It all depends on environment and what you want to do. From what you've said, I'd recommend the Roc. It'll be a challenge, and hurt them, but not make it an entirely luck-based "kill it without being hurt or TPK" situation.

You've already said that it's a tropical grassland- and your whole party can fly. So Elementals other than air will basically be a long, slow, plodding, harmless encounter. If you're indoors, they're often a threat far above their CR- you can rarely hit them places they can't hit you, and they're more likely to hit than you are (and hit harder), and often have more HP than the party put together; at the "appropriate" level. There are ways to cleverly kill them without much damage, still, but other than "be optimized and unload full-power from turn one", they take a while.

The Roc is best in an open plane. They thrive on mobility, damage-dealing, a guerilla tactics. Since you didn't mention trees, the party ought to be able to kill it between his grabbing someone and disappearing over the horizon.


The Sphinx... is save or dies, basically. She has 1/4th the elementals HP, and 3-4 solid attacks from an "average" built fighter at this level should kill it. The AC is nothing too impressive, and the physical attacks are mostly for show, they can hit the wizard with the claws and not much else. The mobility is nothing to sneeze at but, since everyone can fly, nothing too fancy. But dropping a bunch of Fort-and-Will DC22 saves means you either fail & die/sit there until someone wins, or pass & kill him FAST. These guys are never fun.

Greater Elementals are in the MM, or d20SRD online, to answer the previous question.

[Myou]

You guys come up with some great ideas, it's a shame I can't use more of them.

I think I might try to work some more into the game. :3

It all depends on environment and what you want to do. From what you've said, I'd recommend the Roc. It'll be a challenge, and hurt them, but not make it an entirely luck-based "kill it without being hurt or TPK" situation.

You've already said that it's a tropical grassland- and your whole party can fly. So Elementals other than air will basically be a long, slow, plodding, harmless encounter. If you're indoors, they're often a threat far above their CR- you can rarely hit them places they can't hit you, and they're more likely to hit than you are (and hit harder), and often have more HP than the party put together; at the "appropriate" level. There are ways to cleverly kill them without much damage, still, but other than "be optimized and unload full-power from turn one", they take a while.

The Roc is best in an open plane. They thrive on mobility, damage-dealing, a guerilla tactics. Since you didn't mention trees, the party ought to be able to kill it between his grabbing someone and disappearing over the horizon.


The Sphinx... is save or dies, basically. She has 1/4th the elementals HP, and 3-4 solid attacks from an "average" built fighter at this level should kill it. The AC is nothing too impressive, and the physical attacks are mostly for show, they can hit the wizard with the claws and not much else. The mobility is nothing to sneeze at but, since everyone can fly, nothing too fancy. But dropping a bunch of Fort-and-Will DC22 saves means you either fail & die/sit there until someone wins, or pass & kill him FAST. These guys are never fun.

Greater Elementals are in the MM, or d20SRD online, to answer the previous question.

Ah, sounds like the Roc will be best then. ^^

The party don't have the ability to fly, but they have a wizard and we're using spell points so as long as he prepares fly....


Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions!

[Magnor Criol]

I dunno, a pair of bulettes attacking in tandem could be frighteningly effective. They're not above animal intelligence, but they've got high wis so it could be assumed they're fairly cunning; so some real shenanigans could be pulled by having one surface and attack, then sink on the next round; and then the other surfaces somewhere else, attacks, then sinks; et cetera. Basically the party thinks they're fighting one bulette, at least for a good deal of the fight, and even when they catch on they still only get to aim at one at a time.

That may be a bit sophisticated tactics-wise for them, though.

[Kol Korran]

i'll throw in another suggestion- the Yrthak.(basic MM, near the end) it's a flier, it can blast the surface, or rocks and such (which will probably surprise the players), it attacks mostly by a sonic lance (which the players probably won't be prepared for), and it can also snatch just like the Roc does. it is a somewhat strange monster, and rarely used, but it has a very clear theme, and is versatyle enough to keep your party occupied for one encounter. perfect for a "wandering monster" type of thing.

hope this helped, don't forget to tell us what you've chosen.
Kol.

P.S: i like the Bulletts idea as well, but that's because i realy like the idea of land sharks...

[Myou]

I dunno, a pair of bulettes attacking in tandem could be frighteningly effective. They're not above animal intelligence, but they've got high wis so it could be assumed they're fairly cunning; so some real shenanigans could be pulled by having one surface and attack, then sink on the next round; and then the other surfaces somewhere else, attacks, then sinks; et cetera. Basically the party thinks they're fighting one bulette, at least for a good deal of the fight, and even when they catch on they still only get to aim at one at a time.

That may be a bit sophisticated tactics-wise for them, though.

Ohhh, I like it! =D

i'll throw in another suggestion- the Yrthak.(basic MM, near the end) it's a flier, it can blast the surface, or rocks and such (which will probably surprise the players), it attacks mostly by a sonic lance (which the players probably won't be prepared for), and it can also snatch just like the Roc does. it is a somewhat strange monster, and rarely used, but it has a very clear theme, and is versatyle enough to keep your party occupied for one encounter. perfect for a "wandering monster" type of thing.

hope this helped, don't forget to tell us what you've chosen.
Kol.

P.S: i like the Bulletts idea as well, but that's because i realy like the idea of land sharks...

Thanks!

So many I want to use. xD
I'll let you guys know what I go for! ^^

[AngelOmnipotent]

When I read that there was going to be long grass, I automatically thought of a bunch of Raptors :D

It may not be a singular CR 9 monster, but having a bunch of Fleshraker Dinosaurs (MM3, CR 2 each), or even one of them being a wild shaped Druid leading them, would be quite challenging. That also deals with the problem if the party decides to fly - a well placed druid spell makes them fall to the ground.

[Dragonsdoom]

A pity my party is in mid-dungeon crawl, there are some very inventive encounters here and my party is 7th.

[Myou]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone!

A pity my party is in mid-dungeon crawl, there are some very inventive encounters here and my party is 7th.

Well, when they get out maybe something fun wil be waiting for them. :3




Well, the battle is over! For now at least.

A Roc flying high over the plains spotted them and carried off the rogue (gunslinger but it's the same thing reflavoured), but the wizard fired off a Ray of Stupidity and the Roc only had 2 int. xD

It plowed into a marsh and died, the rogue surviving.

Since the PCs were still in good condition I had the Bulette pair attack, surfacing one by one. But they have 2 int too, so the first one went down without even getting an attack in. I added a third and had them surface at once to flank, going for the wizard since he took out the other bulette, and while they took the wizard down to negative HP, he took out another with a third ray before he went down. So when the dust settled the rogue was at 2 thirds HP and the warblade was barely scratched.

Damn that wizard and his spell points. xD

So now they have to trael through the marsh, I paln to have them attacked by two shambling mounds and some will-o-wisps after that. :3

(This whole trip is a trial they have to go through.)

[RTGoodman]

[...] the wizard fired off a Ray of Stupidity and the Roc only had 2 int.

As a player, I LOVE that spell. As a DM, I hate it so very, very much.

Oh well, at least will-o'-wisps have a high Int. The shambling mounds don't, though, so they'll probably fall for that same trick, too. Unless, of course, ray of stupidity is mind-affecting, since Plants are immune to that. (I can't remember if it is or not, but it seems like it could be.)

[Keld Denar]

Wow, you actually let your players use Ray of Stupidity? I'm a pretty lenient DM, but there are 2 spells that I completely outright ban. Ray of Stupidity and Shivering Touch. Those 2 spells along allow a wizard to kill about 99% of the monstrous manual with little to no effort. I mean, look at the havok that it brough. 3 relatively tough foes all 1shotted by your wizard with no opportunity to save even.

Anyway, as long as everyone is having fun. I just SEVERLY dislike those 2 spells, especially when metamagic is applied.