Ignoring SA Immunity [3.5]

[Myatar_Panwar]

My current rogue is going to be fighting alot of undead, and I am looking for a way to get some sneak attack here and there.

I know there are a couple of ways to ignore sneak attack immunity, but the only one I can remember is in an item: Death Strike Bracer's from the MIC. And those only work 3x per day.

What other ways are there?

[Eldariel]

Use Magic Device on a Wand of Grave Strike [Spell Compendium] works (note that as the spell is a Swift Action, using the Wand is too, provided that you can pick it and use a weapon without actions; Quick Draw or Glove of Storing works there). Also Greater Truedeath Weapon Crystal [Magic Item Compendium] works, but as it requires a +3 base weapon... Greater Magic Weapon could theorethically handle that, but that's something you need to check with your DM (and even then, it's a CL 12 Greater Magic Weapon you need, so a level 8 Cleric with Beads of Karma or Divine Spell Power is probably the earliest)

The best one though: Penetrating Strike [Dungeonscape ACF] - gives up Trap Sense (crap ability anyways - you find traps by searching for them, not by walking on them) for the ability to deal half Sneak Attack damage to normally immune creatures while flanking. Combine that with Darkstalker and you'll really be able to Sneak Attack most things.

[Salt_Crow]

Greater Truedeath Crystal from MIC allows you to SA undead all day long. It's quite expensive at 10k though. It also need to be attached to a weapon with +3 or higher enhancement bonus (disregarding 'effective' bonus) which may further delay acquisition of the item.

There's a cleric spell (level 1 I think) that allows you to crit/SA undead for 1 round too. Not terribly useful I'm afraid.



Edit: Ninja'd!

[Who_Da_Halfling]

I know the Swift Hunter feat lets you use Skirmish damage from the Scout against your Ranger favored enemies. Is there an equivalent feat for Rogues?

You could also look into the PHB2 alternative class feature that lets you sacrifice your SA damage to give -5 to the target's AC, which should be enough to let your party fighter or someone easily hit with all of their attacks and drop the enemy. This allows you to contribute to battle without having access to your damage.

-JM

[Eldariel]

I know the Swift Hunter feat lets you use Skirmish damage from the Scout against your Ranger favored enemies. Is there an equivalent feat for Rogues?

As I stated previously, Penetrating Strike is the closest thing to such - there're no multiclass feats that allow you to Sneak Attack favoured enemies for example. The good news is that penetrating strike owns, and should really be a standard Rogue class feature.

[BobVosh]

Gravestrike is truly the best option, however for a +2 total enhancement you can get the ghosttouch and the additional one from MIC that lets you crit/sneak attack undead.

What level are you?

[Curmudgeon]

Gravestrike is truly the best option, however for a +2 total enhancement you can get the ghosttouch and the additional one from MIC that lets you crit/sneak attack undead.

Incorrect arithmetic, Bob. You need a +1 numeric enhancement first, and Ghost Touch and Ghost Strike add an additional +1 enhancement cost each (total +3 enhancement cost)

A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

Ghost Touch: Price +1 bonus.
Ghost Strike [SYNERGY]: Price +1 bonus; Synergy Prerequisite: Ghost Touch.

You're better off getting a +3 weapon and adding a Greater Truedeath weapon augment crystal. That way you're always +3 to hit and damage, and you can swap the crystal for a Greater Demolition model if you come up against constructs. Your approach costs nearly as much, doesn't hit as well, and doesn't have that flexibility.

[Seffbasilisk]

I'd say Penetrating Strike is your best option. Minor loss for major gain. Even at 1/2 sneak, a Rogue can set some some vicious damage in the right places.

[hamishspence]

depends how common the creatures that you use Penetrating strike instead of Crystals on are.

Though it's likely to pay off earlier since crystal only come into play later, when they are affordable.

If Oozes, Plants, etc will be common, and undead/constructs rare, crystals may not be worth it. If its only undead you'll be facing, crystals may be more useful than the feat.

[BobVosh]

Incorrect arithmetic, Bob.

Actually I just mistyped. I blame laptop keyboards/my own ineptitude.

You're better off getting a +3 weapon and adding a Greater Truedeath weapon augment crystal. That way you're always +3 to hit and damage, and you can swap the crystal for a Greater Demolition model if you come up against constructs. Your approach costs nearly as much, doesn't hit as well, and doesn't have that flexibility.

Generally yes, but when he said lots of undead I assumed a reasonably large percent (relatively) of them will be incorpeal. I could be wrong, and if so, will definitely recommend your approach.

[mikej]

I'd go with Penetrating Strike since you're not giving up something major. To a lesser extent, Wand of Grave Strike would also be a good bet. Generally unless they're all undead encounter, i'd rather not pigeonhole myself into having all my gear effect just undead.

[Person_Man]

There's a PrC called Skullclan Hunter (from the Miniatures Handbook) which is basically a Rogue which hunts undead.

Whenever you attack an undead, your full Sneak Attack damage applies automatically (no need to flank or deny Dex). It also offers a bunch of immunities, the ability to track undead with Knowledge (Religion), permanent Protection from Evil (can't be attacked by summoned monsters or mind control), and any weapon you wield counts as Ghost Touch and ignores DR from Undead. The only down side to the class is that it requires Turn Undead to gain entry, and only offers +3d6 Sneak Attack over 10 levels (though you could always just dip a few levels to gain auto-Sneak Attack against undead).

I suggest you take a look.

[Renegade Paladin]

Generally yes, but when he said lots of undead I assumed a reasonably large percent (relatively) of them will be incorpeal. I could be wrong, and if so, will definitely recommend your approach.

I recommend his approach anyway, because a greater truedeath crystal causes the weapon to strike as a ghost touch weapon and grants +1d6 damage vs. undead, since it encompasses the functions of the lesser and least crystals as well.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Great suggestions!

I will definitely pick up Penetrating strike. Seems too good not to take.

I will probably also go for the greater crystal later on though, but for now it will have to wait (only level 5 right now).

The Skull Clan Hunter also looks pretty nice, but I am already multi-classing with Swashbuckler, and would rather not take another dip.

[JeenLeen]

There's also an alternative class feature for rogues in Complete Champion. You lose Trap Sense and instead gain the ability to sneak attack undead at 1/2 sneak attack die.

Sounds like some better options have been mentioned here, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[elonin]

Doesn't craven allow sneak attacks vs undead? If your dm is fair then a swift hunter feat adapted to rogues then taking favored enemy undead and perhaps other types that are immune to sneak attack.

[Curmudgeon]

No, Craven provides no such benefit.

[BobVosh]

I recommend his approach anyway, because a greater truedeath crystal causes the weapon to strike as a ghost touch weapon and grants +1d6 damage vs. undead, since it encompasses the functions of the lesser and least crystals as well.

See? This is why I should look at books...but noooo, I'm at work and don't remember those crystals. Mainly because my DMs hate those augment crystals.