How to be a beholder mage without being a beholder

[Myrmex]

What are the ways to qualify for beholder mage without actually being a beholder?

[Eldariel]

Technically getting two Polymorph Any Objects on you with Metamorphic Transfer/Assume Supernatural Ability on you works. Two castings of Polymorph Any Object make the second one permanent and Assume/Transfer give you an Anti-Magic Eye, which you need to put out to qualify.

Of course, you could put the vestigial eye out anyways and a DM might let you by with that, but if not, use Assume/Transfer. You may need a second copy of the said abilities to get the Eye Stalks, again depending on rulings on whether or not they're necessary.


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[The Glyphstone]

A prerequisite is Race: Beholder, so none.

If you meant without starting as a beholder, it's easy. Be any humanoid race, and get enough money to turn yourself into an Elan (abberation) with Polymorph Any Object. Since this is a +9 duration factor (same kingdom, same size, same Int), it's permanent. Now, as an Elan, get another Polymorph Any Object into a Beholder - same kingdom, same class, same Int gives you a +9 duration factor again, and you are now a beholder.

EDIT: Ninajed, what he said.

[Myrmex]

Goddamn, that's cheesy.
Thanks you guys.

[The Glyphstone]

Beholder Mage is cheesy, yeah.

Beholder Mage/Ur-Priest/Mystic Theurge, on the other hand....

[Chronos]

Beholder Mage is a class designed for DMs who want to kill off their entire party, but don't have the intellectual honesty to just say "Rocks fall everyone dies".

[Myrmex]

Beholder Mage is a class designed for DMs who want to kill off their entire party, but don't have the intellectual honesty to just say "Rocks fall everyone dies".

If you have a weak party, sure. Otherwise it presents an easy and straight forward way to keep up with the party's actions/round with a single monster encounter.

[Chronos]

Remember that the beholder has access to all the same optimization tricks and overpowered spells that your party's wizards do, plus can cast more spells per round than everyone in your party combined, and further really can pull off the "Schrödinger's Wizard" business that everyone always complains about on message boards, since it can know as many spells as it wants and still cast them all spontaneously.

[wadledo]

Naturally, how many spells does a Beholder Mage 10 know?
I've always been confused by that.

[monty]

Naturally, how many spells does a Beholder Mage 10 know?
I've always been confused by that.

All of them. Well, as many as he has the resources to get a hold of.

[wadledo]

All of them. Well, as many as he has the resources to get a hold of.

If the beholder was just sitting in a cellar, slowly dying to death while it killed rats, how many spells would it have?

[monty]

If the beholder was just sitting in a cellar, slowly dying to death while it killed rats, how many spells would it have?

It learns new spells as a wizard, so unless it has access to spells from elsewhere, only 2/level, plus all the cantrips.

[Seatbelt]

Beholder Mage is a class designed for DMs who want to kill off their entire party, but don't have the intellectual honesty to just say "Rocks fall everyone dies".

My party killed a beholder mage. It was challenging, but not impossible.

[Eldariel]

My party killed a beholder mage. It was challenging, but not impossible.

My theory is that the Beholder Mage didn't make enough effort to not be killed.

[Thurbane]

If you have a weak party, sure. Otherwise it presents an easy and straight forward way to keep up with the party's actions/round with a single monster encounter.

The Nagahyrda from Serpent Kingdoms can do this too...

[grautry]

My party killed a beholder mage. It was challenging, but not impossible.

Did he have casting capabilities equal to your wizards?

Because, seriously, beholder mages are beyond insane. If your party is spread out in two directions - which is not that unlikely, then with the Agile Tyrant merit, he can unload eight offensive spells in the first round. And he can use the two remaining spellstalks to buff himself.

Not to mention that a Beholder Mage can take an overpowered prestige class and continue its insane spell progression. A Beholder Mage/IoSTV? BM/Incantatrix? I don't even want to think about it.

Oh yeah and he has Sorcerer spell progression as far as number of spells go, not the wizard one. He's capable of spontaneously casting any spell from its spell list and has more spells than a focused specialist. From any school.

Beholder mages are everything that people complain about in wizards, only taken to extremes. Schrödinger's Wizard with the capability to nova like 3-4 mages put together. It doesn't even matter if you take him by surprise, since he can buff himself with 10 spells in the first round. A powerful Time-Stopped beholder could, theoretically, open 8 Gates during the Time Stop. Or just say '**** it' and unload it's entire spell list.

Let's not comment on what happens when you combine Beholder Mage, Ur-Priest and Mystic Theurge, shall we?

[Chronos]

...then with the Agile Tyrant merit...

I take it that English is not your first language? We call those "feats". Just for future reference.

[Faulty]

Is figuring this stuff out a thought experiment or something? Because it has no practical use.

Are there any differences between the Monsters of Faerun and LoM BMs?

dying to death

Um...

[Lycanthromancer]

Um...

Dying seems to be a pretty big factor in death, generally.

[Seatbelt]

then with the Agile Tyrant merit, he can unload eight offensive spells in the first round.

Not sure I know what this is. Which means my DM probably doesn't know what it is either...

[/quote]Not to mention that a Beholder Mage can take an overpowered prestige class and continue its insane spell progression. A Beholder Mage/IoSTV? BM/Incantatrix? I don't even want to think about it.[/quote]

Those are banned. The DM refuses to even talk about them.


I don't know the specific stats of the Beholder Mage we killed. I know half the party died. I also know the DM wasn't expecting my character, who is pretty cheesy.

[wadledo]

Dying seems to be a pretty big factor in death, generally.

It could be dying to a beholder tyrant(I think, the undead beholder thingy).

[grautry]

I take it that English is not your first language? We call those "feats". Just for future reference.

I also happen to be a WoD player, where a similar mechanic is called "merits".

Considering that I'm, you know, human, I'm allowed to make mistakes like that.

Not sure I know what this is. Which means my DM probably doesn't know what it is either...

It's a feat - as has been mentioned. It's from the Lords of Madness.

Beholder mages have a little limitation - they can only turn three "eyestalks" in one area - forward/backwards/left/right. Which means, that they can 'only' unload 3 spells into one such area. With the Agile Tyrant feat, you can turn 4.

[Chronos]

Considering that I'm, you know, human, I'm allowed to make mistakes like that.

Oh, certainly, no hard feelings I hope?

(and really, "merit" is a better name anyway. In normal English, a "feat" is something you have done, not something you can do)

[Thurbane]

Considering that I'm, you know, human, I'm allowed to make mistakes like that.

You know, a Polymorph Any Object could fix that for you.

[Myrmex]

Remember that the beholder has access to all the same optimization tricks and overpowered spells that your party's wizards do, plus can cast more spells per round than everyone in your party combined, and further really can pull off the "Schrödinger's Wizard" business that everyone always complains about on message boards, since it can know as many spells as it wants and still cast them all spontaneously.

As a CR 21 or 22 encounter, sure, and if you cheese it out, sure, and if you fail to account for that, sure.

But at that point, it's little more than one hypothetical construct vs. another, ie, high level wizard duel. Mostly nothing happens, since they both have a bunch of crafted contingencies, and then teleport away to find dragons to beat up and loot.

A powerful Time-Stopped beholder could, theoretically, open 8 Gates during the Time Stop. Or just say '**** it' and unload it's entire spell list.

Unless it is doing some Killer Gnome shenanigans, it only gets 1 ninth level eyestalk/round. Using its standard action to cast an ur-priest spell, and a rod of quicken, annnnd something tricky, perhaps 3 gates + timestop?

[grautry]

Unless it is doing some Killer Gnome shenanigans, it only gets 1 ninth level eyestalk/round. Using its standard action to cast an ur-priest spell, and a rod of quicken, annnnd something tricky, perhaps 3 gates + timestop?

Well no.

Casting spells from a spellstalk is a free action - and any spellstalk can cast any spell. There are no "levels" of spellstalks as far as I can see in the descriptions.

And as far as standard actions go - I'm not even sure whether they can cast spells in their standard actions.

Oh, certainly, no hard feelings I hope?

(and really, "merit" is a better name anyway. In normal English, a "feat" is something you have done, not something you can do)

Nope, as I said when I was editing the post, I probably sounded a bit harsher than I intended when I wrote that. And really, you were trying to be helpful, so what could I really be insulted about?

You know, a Polymorph Any Object could fix that for you.

I should probably become a kobold, right?

[tyckspoon]

Well no.

Casting spells from a spellstalk is a free action - and any spellstalk can cast any spell. There are no "levels" of spellstalks as far as I can see in the descriptions.

Beholder Mage in general is kind of poorly written, but it's in there- the line says "from then on, that eyestalk casts spells of that level." Ten levels of spells, ten eyestalks. Each spellstalk is the casting tool for 1 level of spells, so normal casting for a 9th or 10th level Beholder Mage would be 1 spell from every level. Not quite as overwhelming as 10 9th level spells, but there's usually something worth casting (well, maybe not from the cantrips.)

[grautry]

Beholder Mage in general is kind of poorly written, but it's in there- the line says "from then on, that eyestalk casts spells of that level." Ten levels of spells, ten eyestalks. Each spellstalk is the casting tool for 1 level of spells, so normal casting for a 9th or 10th level Beholder Mage would be 1 spell from every level. Not quite as overwhelming as 10 9th level spells, but there's usually something worth casting (well, maybe not from the cantrips.)

Ah, damn. My mistake then.

Still, even if limited by spell levels, their ability to nova is unparalleled. It's like having a Greater Rod of Quicken with unlimited charges - only better.

I still wonder how standard action casting works for BM's - that is, whether they can do it at all. The text doesn't seem to support that.

[Dr_Horrible]

I still wonder how standard action casting works for BM's - that is, whether they can do it at all. The text doesn't seem to support that.

They can't cast their BM spells. Which is why you Theurge it with Ur-Priest to get spells you can cast with a standard action.

[tyckspoon]

Or carry (tongue?) around some scrolls/wands/staves. Or just bite things/whack them with a mouthpick weapon.