OOTS #649 - The Discussion Thread

[Starscream]

Here Lies the Fourth Wall
2003-2009
"It will not be missed"

Super funny strip, Giant. Seriously, my coworkers are looking at me like I'm a lunatic because I keep cracking up. And actually changing the cast page? A stroke of true genius!

[Iain]

Heh! The cast page change made that very funny, though I'm not sure it'll work so well in print.
I wonder whether they will be killing Xykon five strips from now? V could probably manage it just now. Of course, if Redcloak got away with the phylactery V's magic would still have achieved little since V abandoned V's family to keep it.

[fractal]

Note that if Durkon actually had a scroll of Resurrection, the cost of material components would already be included in that, and no additional diamonds would be needed. The loss of the diamonds would therefore be annoying and costly (scrolls are expensive), but not reason to panic. Since Durkon does not suggest this as an option, this suggests that Durkon does not, in fact, have such a scroll. The fiends lied to Vaarsuvius (again).

Will he/she figure it out?

[Iain]

Note that if Durkon actually had a scroll of Resurrection ... Since Durkon does not suggest this as an option, this suggests that Durkon does not, in fact, have such a scroll. The fiends lied to Vaarsuvius (again).

The fiends said Durkon had a scroll of sending, not of resurrection:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html

[Killer Angel]

Gah, you're right, he's been dead almost a third of the comic!

Yes, but to be fair, in these 207 strips, Roy had some good spot, regardless of beeing a dead fighter. He also saluted Gary!

[Iranon]

My first reaction was to complain that cheap meta-solutions like that don't work too well for OotS, even less so when they appear like a tired 8-bit-theatre rip-off (an impression increased by the artificial extent to which V's current power is portrayed as irrelevant... which doesn't work too well either because v got them there and Durkon acknowledged the destruction of the golem as a problem).

But then... Haley stealing from the cast page could be taken as a symbol for some haggling with an imaginary DM ('it's been etablished way back, right at the beginning of the campaign, that I have a big-ass diamond in my belongings. I never lost my regular purse, I haven't spent it, so it must be still there'). This doesn't quite fit with the I O Me but if we regard that as a throwaway gag since the cast page isn't the main material, it still works!

Something similar could apply to V... the DM going along with any hare-brained solution that renders V non-vital as a subtle hint that the splice isn't going to be a continuous moment of glory.

Wishful thinking? Maybe. But it's nice when even a comic you found initially disappointing can make you think and appreciate it on some level.

[misterk]

That was brilliant. Love the change to the cast page! Love the paciness we're getting at the moment, finally get the 6 back together (even if it may be to tear them apart again soon after!)

Incidentally, it's probably a bad sign that I have had dreams about waiting for my rss feed to update....

[fractal]

The fiends said Durkon had a scroll of sending, not of resurrection:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html

Hmm, an interesting point - that could be interpreted that way. However, why would you concern yourself with the casting time of Sending but not of Resurrection? They both take 10 minutes.

[deworde]

Hang on. If Haley can do that, can't she go back to a few strips before she lost her voice, and replace the treasure in her sacks with rocks?

[Greyskull]

I rarey comment on the comic but I loved this one - just made me LOL so much (V's solution to their golem problem, Hayley stealing the diamond off herself, and of course the last panel comment by Belkar).

[Iain]

However, why would you concern yourself with the casting time of Sending but not of Resurrection? They both take 10 minutes.

Absolutely valid when considering whether the fiends' plan would work, but the fiends didn't care about that - they were just using it to make V choose the splice for the wrong reasons. They could say this without lying (assuming Durkon actually does have a scroll of Sending); if it was a bit ambiguous, then so much the better - V was more likely to buy it.
Also, I suppose having a scroll of either would reduce the wait by 10 minutes, giving the dragon less time to soul bind the kids, so it wasn't entirely irrelevant.

[Griever3216]

Wow, never has the fourth wall been so broken before. Initially, the diamond part felt like a cheap solution and as I was reading I knew the Giant would have changed something in the main character page, otherwise it would have been too cheap for him to use. I am a fan of inside jokes and obscure references, so this made me smile a bit. Enough not to dislike the strip.

Belkar's joke at the last panel was indeed funny, but I think it is something he could have said even before today's strip. I do not know how hard bone golems are to beat, but the whole diamond part could have easily been skipped. I just feel today's strip only served the purpose to stall until we reach 650. A new strip is better than no strip and if this is what it takes to reach 650, let it be.

[Azazel]

Ouch... I think... I think there are some shards of the fourth wall in my face. I seem to recall something about panels and diamonds and then there was this big explosion...

Funny and all but I do think it's a bit of an easy way out masked by gags.
All in all, I'd prefer this to 150 more strips about fixing the diamond issue by the conventional methods.

[Doc Filth]

All this talk of the diamond being a "cheap solution" misses the salient point, that the relevant problem was only created in the same strip - hence it's only there for the purpose of the gag resolution. If it had wrapped up something that had been a plot thread for a while, then it might have seemed cheap.

[banjo1985]

I love the fact the cast page now has an IOU rather than that diamond.

[KIDS]

I love it how you updated the cast page as well. Win!

p.s. V turning into a dragon again and smashing the golem was great!

[Evil DM Mark3]

Indeed, the best pickpockets EVER.

[Athaniar]

Truly the best breaking of the fourth wall ever. And an awesome strip, too. And that the cast page has changed... that is pure genius.

[Turcano]

So, was I the only one who caught the Lola Rennt reference?

[Holammer]

Methinks Belkar just jinxed everything. (Dives for cover to avoid unexpected plot twist).

[ShinyRocks]

All this talk of the diamond being a "cheap solution" misses the salient point, that the relevant problem was only created in the same strip - hence it's only there for the purpose of the gag resolution. If it had wrapped up something that had been a plot thread for a while, then it might have seemed cheap.

Thank you! OOTS is still supposed to have humour, for all its story arcs, and this was just a joke. Durkon had the diamonds: the only reason to lose them and get the Cast diamond in one strip was for a gag.

And, I expect, as a bit of a fake-out to people who've complained about the strip dragging on and Roy not getting raised: 'Oh no, the diamonds are gone! Yet more strips before Roy comes back! Haha! Fixed it!' all within about ten panels.

[pendell]

*Clap clap clap*

That was HILARIOUS! And good on Vaarsuvius for squashing the bone golem.

Can't find the updated cast page .. can someone supply a link? Must be having an attack of the stupids.

ETA: It's been pointed out to me . Thanks.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[SteveMB]

Hey, the cast page is back. I remember it was gone for a while... was it in preparation for this strip?

Both comics' cast pages were gone, so it was probably just a glitch. That said, getting the page restored may have inspired that fourth-wall joke.

[motub]

There were a lot of little things that I very much enjoyed about this strip:

- No one is impressed or scared or awed by the Pink Dragon, so much so that the shift didn't even occur in-panel (making it a real "pfft!" throwaway, brought home by the only response being "Whoa." by Roy, who is inaudible). So even V's "biggest" (literally) show is a flop to hir friends and compatriots. However, the expedient method of destroying the golem (yeah, just step on it, ha!) was funny, as was the <blink, blink> response from the party;

- Durkon getting his pocket picked.... by some level 2 thieves. I seriously had to go back and check that they didn't say they were the "most awesomest pickpockets ever" to empahsize their youth and inexperience and Durkon's totally dwarven lack of sensitivity to (even a relatively incompetent) invasion of his personal space, even when that personal space includes a really rather large bag of diamonds that you'd think he'd a) be paying attention to whether they were still on his person, since he both needs them shortly, and they are of course valuable on their own account, and b) notice if they were removed, since the bag is an object of significant size whose absence should be noticeable (if only because it's not banging against your leg with every step, diamond edges-- they do seem to be cut, so they have points and edges-- suddenly no longer pricking one in the thigh, etc.). Even the fact that he's walking openly with valuables through the home city of the Thieves' Guild doesn't make an impression on his complete 'block of wood'-ness. Makes you just want to give him a kiss on top of his bald head and sigh, "Oh, Durkon....!"

- Elan reverting to his usual ingenuous self, seemingly, but this time with a difference-- in combination with Haley's skills, he actually came up with the most effective solution to the problem at hand. Wow. Suddenly, it's "Elan as he should be".

- But my very favorite thing, which is still making me smile, is Haley climbing the sidebar to get the diamond from the cast page. I'm sure she could have "gone around the back" (we know there is a backstage, a green room, etc), but no.... she climbed the bloody sidebar (which I will spend some time wondering how The Giant got the edge of pictured in the strip), which was just... brilliant. It's also fun to open the two cast pages-- thanks for the links, Ron Miehl-- in two browser tabs, and switch between them quickly; if you do this little animation, you see that nothing whatsoever is changed/moved in the strip itself (or even Haley's panel), with the exception of the diamond being replaced by the I.O. Me. Which has got to be some kind of tour-de-force(let) of illustration, or tracing, or layers or something. I'm not an artist (obviously), but it seems to me that it wasn't just "nothing" to do, and do as well/neatly as it was done. As always, it's lovely to see The Giant's attention to detail-- and his sense of humour, since how long has it been since any of us long-time readers went to the Cast page? It made me laugh that I (and, I knew, many others as well) went immediately there as soon as Elan mentioned it (for me, even before reading the rest of the strip), because my first thought was "Did Haley have a diamond on the Cast page? I don't even remember." And of course she left herself an I.O. Me. How sweet of herself.

See? I'm still smiling. And probably Roy will be back next strip (since there are no further impediments to his resurrection), and things will get a bit cliffhangery again as we draw the book to a close (seems to me that a nice full-cast-restored shot with a hint of doom on the horizon as a segue to the next series is a natural end point, no matter what the math says), so it's all good.

Nice strip. Still smiling.

[Griever3216]

was only created in the same strip - hence it's only there for the purpose of the gag resolution. If it had wrapped up something that had been a plot thread for a while, then it might have seemed cheap.

Thank you! OOTS is still supposed to have humour, for all its story arcs, and this was just a joke. Durkon had the diamonds: the only reason to lose them and get the Cast diamond in one strip was for a gag.

And, I expect, as a bit of a fake-out to people who've complained about the strip dragging on and Roy not getting raised: 'Oh no, the diamonds are gone! Yet more strips before Roy comes back! Haha! Fixed it!' all within about ten panels.

I do not disagree with any of you. All the obstacles have been resolved and the strips are coming at a regular pace so the resurrection is only a matter of a few days. I have never felt the comic was dragging and I certainly do not feel this way now. The diamond reference was indeed an one-strip gag, but it just was not my cup of tea. Some found the change in the cast page funny, some the whole gag in itself, but it is just a personal preference. I liked more V's shapechange which was like "OK, now we need to destroy the golem. V: This is taking too long and my patience is getting thin *instant shapechange - problem solved - silence*" But it was overshadowed by the diamond gag. To me this felt like a filler strip, but not very successful (geneally the forum seems to think otherwise though).

[RebelRogue]

So, was I the only one who caught the Lola Rennt reference?

Nope, but I haven't seen the film, either. Care to elaborate?

[hewhosaysfish]

I'm surprised no-one else mentioned this, what with everyone all rushing to the cast page:

The mysterious Vaarsuvius, keeper of a thousand arcane secrets.
And each one would drive you MAD!
MAD!

The more things change...

[Snake-Aes]

Hang on. If Haley can do that, can't she go back to a few strips before she lost her voice, and replace the treasure in her sacks with rocks?

She can't. No amount of sneakyness can get her back in strip-time. The cast page is an alternate reality, outside of the strip's mainstream.

[Saint Nil]

Most of my points have been made, but you can never say that this comic was awesome enough.

[HandofShadows]

Excellent page. Nice to see Haley living up to her new hair style.