Protecting your MacGuffin.

[Justin B.]

So, in a Forgotten Realms campaign I'm currently playing, our goal is to collect a great and powerful artifact of healing. It is a gem cut into an eight pointed star, and millenia ago it was broken up by a demonlord, who then charged the forces of evil all over Toril to keep the 8 pieces of the star protected from the forces of Good.

At this point, we have a single piece of the star, but my character is the cautious type (high-Wisdom Cleric of Corellon Lariethian) and knows that evil forces will soon be coming to retrieve the artifact from us, so I am trying to think of the best ways to protect this artifact of magnificent healing abilities.

Here is what I have so far:

We've made a simple wooden case bound in cold iron, which my DM has ruled looks exactly like regular iron. This is to help deter demons from handling the case, while allowing it to appear inocuous to others.

The case is lead lined to block from most divinations.

The case is locked with both an Arcane Lock and a DC 30 regular lock (for now, I plan to purchase a more difficult lock in the future.)

Inside of the case, a leather bandoleer has been constructed with pockets for each of the eight shards of the star.

What I plan to do is:

Put a teleportation trap or contingency on the case, so that anyone who opens the case without saying a specific password will find that the bandoleer inside has suddenly teleported to another location, probably a secured, lead lined vault in the middle of a well-protected city, hopefully with quite a few traps of it's own on it.

The bandolieer itself will have a similar trap or contingency that will cause each individual pocket to teleport the individual pieces of the star to various different safe locations. On the outside of the bandoleer there will be many various phrases and riddles in many different languages, all pointing to a possible hint about what password for opening the bandoleer. None of the solutions will be the correct word, merely serving as a tactic for misdirection.

I also intend to have another, more elaborate case made, perhaps with an engraving of an eight pointed star, and gold and silver traceries, and an elaborate expensive lock and gaudy key to go with it. This case will be empty, to distract any would-be artifact thieves from the real star, whihc is located in the much more mundane case elsewhere in the parties possession.


Those are my ideas. What else would you folks do to protect your all powerful artifact?

[Tiki Snakes]

Put it in your pants. No, really. Better yet, work on your muscular control, wrap it in a some sheep-gut or something, and make it a suppository macguffin.

I'd like to see the pickpocket roll to snatch THAT.

Plus, it's going to always count as attended, is in a dark, unidentifiable place, no line of sight, no line of effect. Plus you can't go wrong with giving the BBEG a close close-up view of the interior of your colon in exchange for him trying to spy on you. Eh?

[edit - The idea is to break your dm to the extent that he loses all interest in screwing you out of the Crystal thingy, but it could backfire depending on how resistant to toilet humour your dm is. :) Not a tactic for the feint of heart, or loose of, ya know.]

[monty]

Do you have to be able to retrieve it in the future? If not, then that opens up some better options.

[Justin B.]

Tiki: Getting all 8 of the shards up there might be a problem.

Monty: Retrievable is a must.

[Kosjsjach]

Call me crazy, but what's wrong with the Secret Chest spell? Are your enemies likely to have allies/denizens on the Ethereal Plane?

[Berserk Monk]

Why would making the case out of cold iron prevent demons from touching it? Just because it can bypass their DR, doesn't mean it instantly harms them when they touch it. Unless it has spikes jutting forth from it, I don't see how it will stop any demons from running off with it. Humans have the same odds of being hurt with a cold iron weapon as well as most other creatures. Do you get harmed when you pick up the box.

[herrhauptmann]

Doesn't the leomund chest spell serve adequately for this as well? I like your leadlined bunker idea too.
You could just put the chest in there to start with, teleport to it as needed when you gain a piece.
-Line the walls with various Symbols, nondetection and a permanent Consecrate spell. Definitely mess up the day of anyone who manages to teleport to it without permission.
All you'd have to deal with after that is someone 'accidentally' finding it. Say some duergar are following a mineral seam and discover your underground vault. Or a mage using, what is it, passwall that creates a tunnel a few hundred feet long? That'd be even worse, he'd passwall his way in by accident, and all your symbol spells would have gotten negated because the wall they're written on no longer exists.
-If you want to create duplicates for misdirection purposes, let the fakes have a trap set up that makes the old portable hole/bag of holding trick. If they can't find the trap (and you better keep upgrading the trap DC as you level up), they'll get blasted to astral plane or whatever with no save.
-Would Shrink Item work on your artifact? If so, name your group "Company of the Gemstone" or somesuch, and you've got a group insignia, which is the completed gem. It can be on a cloak, armband, shirt etc. And as you gain the pieces, use Shrink Item/Permanency/ (and spell that hides magic auras) and sew/sovereign glue the gem piece to someone's insignia.

What level is your party currently anyway?

[Justin B.]

Call me crazy, but what's wrong with the Secret Chest spell? Are your enemies likely to have allies/denizens on the Ethereal Plane?

We're dealing with a Demonlord's directive to all evil beings, I'm not counting this out. Anything with evil alignment would drool at the chance of destroying such a gigantic artifact of Good. Not to mention, if it is with us physically at all times, we have a better chance of foiling whoever is going after it. Leaving is stationary and secured is a secondary option considering the resources we are going against. Think Fellowship of the Ring, secrecy is our best defense. If it is constantly moving, it will be much harder to pin down.

Why would making the case out of cold iron prevent demons from touching it? Just because it can bypass their DR, doesn't mean it instantly harms them when they touch it. Unless it has spikes jutting forth from it, I don't see how it will stop any demons from running off with it. Humans have the same odds of being hurt with a cold iron weapon as well as most other creatures. Do you get harmed when you pick up the box.

It's not unknown for creatures to have a natural aversion to the things that overcome their damage reduction. Any little bit helps.

-Line the walls with various Symbols, nondetection and a permanent Consecrate spell. Definitely mess up the day of anyone who manages to teleport to it without permission.

Yes, this is a good idea, unfortunately I'm currently level 8, and I am the highest level in the party, not quite an option yet, but a definate plan when these kind of resources become available to us.

If you want to create duplicates for misdirection purposes, let the fakes have a trap set up that makes the old portable hole/bag of holding trick. If they can't find the trap (and you better keep upgrading the trap DC as you level up), they'll get blasted to astral plane or whatever with no save.

My only issue with this is that the artifact itself may be lost as well. Which is something we definately do not want.

-Would Shrink Item work on your artifact? If so, name your group "Company of the Gemstone" or somesuch, and you've got a group insignia, which is the completed gem. It can be on a cloak, armband, shirt etc. And as you gain the pieces, use Shrink Item/Permanency/ (and spell that hides magic auras) and sew/sovereign glue the gem piece to someone's insignia.

This might be something to consider for misdirection purposes. The only issue I might see is that we don't want to leave the gem shards too exposed. Considering it's an artifact it probably isn't subject to shrinking anyway.

[Aquillion]

Anything with evil alignment would drool at the chance of destroying such a gigantic artifact of Good.

This is an important point, and something you might want to keep in mind. They want to destroy it, not steal it. So your box actually isn't as useful as you might think -- a demon can steal it and toss it into a sphere of annihilation, say, without ever bothering to read your pretty misdirections or worry about the locks and traps and contingencies at all. (They might not know for sure it's inside, but if they're that eager they're going to just destroy every container you have.)

So I would make the contingency something that includes that case -- make it "whenever the box is about to be opened or destroyed", or even just "whenever the artifact is about to be destroyed" if you need something simpler.. Depending on how complicated your DM lets you make contingencies, you could also have it teleport away just before anyone attempts to dispel the contingency itself, though that's pushing it.

Once you're high enough level to do so, putting an Instant Summons on the artifact is also a good idea.

Also, you don't necessarily need to put it inside an actual container. I assume that it's immune to day-to-day damage from high temperatures and smashing? You could, for instance, forge it into some large metal object, such as a sword or armor (coat the artifact itself in lead, of course, so its presence in there can't be detected.) You can get it out by smashing or melting the object containing it, but most other people will have no reason to know it's inside. A box obviously contains something; a sword doesn't. (And, of course, with Instant Summons you can fetch it from inside of whatever object you've placed it inside of very easily.)

This assumes you don't have to access it regularly, though, only when you really, really need it.

How big is it? What are its dimensions?

[Justin B.]

This is an important point, and something you might want to keep in mind. They want to destroy it, not steal it. So your box actually isn't as useful as you might think -- a demon can steal it and toss it into a sphere of annihilation, say, without ever bothering to read your pretty misdirections or worry about the locks and traps and contingencies at all. (They might not know for sure it's inside, but if they're that eager they're going to just destroy every container you have.)

Mm, perhaps I should have mentioned that I don't believe it can be destroyed entirely. The reason it has to be collected and put back together is because the Demonlord acquired it and shattered it into 8 pieces, and sent them all around Toril. If it could have been destroyed, why didn't he do it then?

Once you're high enough level to do so, putting an Instant Summons on the artifact is also a good idea.

Very good idea, however, the artifact is a series of eight identical pieces, so I would need one for each piece until we can put it all together again. Still, definately worth the effort, if we can manage it.

Also, you don't necessarily need to put it inside an actual container. I assume that it's immune to day-to-day damage from high temperatures and smashing? You could, for instance, forge it into some large metal object, such as a sword or armor (coat the artifact itself in lead, of course, so its presence in there can't be detected.) You can get it out by smashing or melting the object containing it, but most other people will have no reason to know it's inside. A box obviously contains something; a sword doesn't. (And, of course, with Instant Summons you can fetch it from inside of whatever object you've placed it inside of very easily.)

This is a good idea, however, the individual shards themselves have potent healing abilities that may be useful. For instance, the first shard we've acquired can cast the Heal spell once a week, and the DM said that getting more shards will increase the powers of all the Shards we possess.

Perhaps there is a work-around for this though. The shards themselves are about three to four inches thick at the top, and about a half a foot long, narrowing to a point. When all the pieces come together, they form an eight pointed star. It's easily concievable that there be a hallow inside a sword hilt, lead lined of course, that one could slip a piece of the star into.

However, if the location of the Shards do get discovered, we've lost that second teleport that may be the critical factor in deciding who keeps what pieces, unless of course the vaults themselves have teleport traps on them, which is not only tedious, but also hilarious.

By the way, you are all being amazingly helpful, please keep it up.

[Tiki Snakes]

Tiki: Getting all 8 of the shards up there might be a problem.

That's what the rest of the party is for. Also, magic items that aid diplomacy checks, cause, yeah, I'll admit good luck with that one. :D

[Emy]

Would the Hoard Gullet spell from Dragon Magic help? It's similar to having a bag of holding... in your stomach. So pickpockets or whatever other minions won't be able to just grab/sunder it off of you. It has a one hour per level duration, which at your level means you'll need 2 spell slots per day to keep it going all the time.

[Waspinator]

If you do go with keeping it in some kind of box, layer the box with as many materials as you can. Wood, lead, cold iron, mithral, adamantine... You never know when one of those might block some obscure effect or divination spell. Also, stick some garlic in with it, just in case. I'm always a little paranoid about vampires and other forms of undead....

Then make sure to make copies of the box. The others don't need all of the defensive mechanisms or fancy materials; just give each party member one and make sure noone opens them when they could be observed. If someone wants to steal the thing from you, they'll have to guess who actually has it even if they know what the box looks like.

[Duff]

Also, your dummy caskets shouldn't be empty, it should hold the best forgery you can manage, possibly with the best hired/constructed body guard genuinely believing it is the artefact (so when the demon eats it they produce a genuine heart rending "Noooooooo"

[Olo Demonsbane]

Cast Polymorph any Object on it into...wait for it...a tooth!

Then punch your friend in the mouth. While he splutters at you, stick the gem where one of his teeth were and activate the Heal ability...now hes simply very confused.

Then, to top it off, use a scroll of Modify Memory on him and a scroll of Programmed Amnesia on yourself, triggered to remind you whenever you get another gem. That way, no one can torture it from your teammates or you.

[Kosjsjach]

Would the Hoard Gullet spell from Dragon Magic help? It's similar to having a bag of holding... in your stomach. So pickpockets or whatever other minions won't be able to just grab/sunder it off of you. It has a one hour per level duration, which at your level means you'll need 2 spell slots per day to keep it going all the time.

I think this might be your best bet.
Heck, if your DM allows custom magic items, a throat-slot item of continuous hoard gullet should cost you all of 2000gp. For an extra-dimensional hide-away space that can't be taken from you, that's pretty sweet.

[UserClone]

Cast Polymorph any Object on it into...wait for it...a tooth!

Then punch your friend in the mouth. While he splutters at you, stick the gem where one of his teeth were and activate the Heal ability...now hes simply very confused.

Then, to top it off, use a scroll of Modify Memory on him and a scroll of Programmed Amnesia on yourself, triggered to remind you whenever you get another gem. That way, no one can torture it from your teammates or you.

This is freaking fantastic. I also love the Hoard Gullet idea, and the spell in general.

[Hawriel]

Big complicated plan you have there. Do you have the recorses, mony, time and contacts to pull all that off? Thats pritty much a campaigne just to get that done. Alot can go wrong with that plan.

As for the cold iron being just a box.

Yes it would cause demons pain to touch it. Just like a warewolf touching silver. There is a reason why it bypasses their DR. Its their kryptonite. Wizards changed the folklor from normal iron to 'cold iron' to make is special.

Why bother making the box out of ordinary wood if your just going to bind it in iron, line it with lead, and enchant the crap out of it to the point it would glow like Elmenster's tower with detect magic?

edit
Oh yeah not only the time and mony but how are you going to keep that size of a project secret?

[Lycanthromancer]

You could always get a scroll of polymorph any object and turn it into a grain of sand or something equally nondescript, with numerous anti-divination spells on it (including hiding its aura), along with an instant summons scroll. Teleport it to a planar location that is an infinite desert full of sand (maybe the temporal energy plane, as described in the Manual of the Planes?).

Find the World's Largest Dungeon and start spreading (false) rumors that the pieces are hidden somewhere inside. And that it's in the tarrasque's stomach. And in the throne-room of The Lady of Pain. In a stronghold of the illithids. Or maybe in an extradimensional pocket in Elminster's pipe. Or...hehe...the Tomb of Horrors.

Also, create a homunculus, give it the shard, and then find a scroll of imprisonment. Make sure you use the scroll either in some extremely difficult-to-reach place, somewhere incredibly nondescript, or in a bastion of good. Preferably after making things very difficult to reach that place (for anyone but you, that is).

Any spell durations you wish to place on the artifact can afterward be preserved via quintessence.

[quick_comment]

As has been mentioned before, put an instant summons on it, then toss it into a scrying protected pocket plane.

You can indiana jones it - use creation magic and/or leadership sweatshops to make a hundred thousand things that look just like it. Use eternal wands of nystul's magic aura to make them all look the same.

You can polymorph it into something else. PAO it into just about anything innocuous.

If you are high enough level to cast genesis, just create your own plane, make it impenetrable and store it there.

If one of you is a warforged, see if you can get the crystal installed in him.

If one of you is a paladin, give it to the mount to hold. It cant be much safer than in Celestia with the mount.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I'm going to have to second the "suppository method;" though, if you want to be extra special, you can get someone to make screw-tight metal capsules, line the interior with lead, and go from there.

Now, not only will the object be extremely secure, but it won't even radiate for a detect magic, or similar divination spell.

Oh, and this'll be a heck of a lot cheaper too

[MickJay]

Don't make the box teleport away if touched/opened by someone without the password - make the person opening it get teleported somewhere else: into a pool of acid, active volcano, bottom of the sea, etc...

[Lycanthromancer]

Don't make the box teleport away if touched/opened by someone without the password - make the person opening it get teleported somewhere else: into a pool of acid, active volcano, bottom of the sea, etc...

You want to teleport the item out, simply because The Forces of Evil [tm] are now aware of where the item in question is. The next wizard (or critter with spells or spell-likes) can just cast dimensional anchor on itself, and there you are.

If you teleport the artifact out, they have to waste precious time searching for it again, which gives you more time to go after it to protect it, if need be. (Just make sure you receive a Blue Screen 'o Death message each time it's found.)

Nothing says you can't teleport the finder out, too, though.

You could easily have a number of containers spread around the Realms, all nondescript but different-looking, which are keyed to have the MacGuffin transported to them in sequence. If one is found (and touched) by an evil creature and/or open, have the teleport spell bypass that particular box, and send it on to the next one. Still keep the instant summons on it, so you can call it to yourself at any time without having to worry about which box it's in.

I suppose you could PAO it into a small piece of ice and send it to the Elemental Plane of Water. Good luck having Evil find it when it melts and is now a fluid part of an entire infinity of water. Just make sure it has that permanent instant summoning on it first.

You DO realize you can cast from scrolls even if you're too low level, right? Make use of this fact.

[JackQ]

Do you have a paladin in your party? Get saddlebags and place your protective box on his mount's saddlebags and have him dismiss the mount. The box is now protected in celestial realms.

[Thajocoth]

You're spending a lot for negative gain.

The more convoluted you are when trying to hide something, check for traps, ect... The more ideas you give the GM. With each thing you add to it's protection, the more specific a would-be thief of it would need to be. In this way, unknown to you, you are creating that character... The character who fits the description perfectly enough to take your MacGuffin... And you're guaranteeing that he'll find the party while they're sleeping.

If a GM would have someone steal it, I can see that as being worth no more than a sidequest to get that piece back. Really... By being PCs on a quest, your victory should already be assured, so long as you don't get a TPK along the way.

Basically, whoever in the party would survive what is otherwise a TPK should take it (with the exception of any GMPCs). I don't know if Warforged have this in 3.5, or if a party member of yours even is one, but in 4, they're perfect for holding up to 20lbs of something secret in a secret compartment within, and when knocked out, they're very likely to get back up with time. Otherwise, I'd just put it in a backpack.

[Lycanthromancer]

As to the DM getting 'ideas,' what you need to do is misdirect him as well.

Write everything you're actually doing down on a sheet of paper, sealed in an envelope, and have it dated by a notary (just tell the DM that you did what's in the envelope, but don't tell him what it was). Then tell your DM what you want everyone else to know.

When the BBEG finds 'the MacGuffin' (as he suspects it to be), you can laugh in his face when you give the envelope to the DM.



(Also, 6 little words to live by, when protecting something virtually indestructible: "I prepared explosive runes this morning." Note that they're of permanent duration, and you can have as many as you like. Few critters are immune to force damage. )

[Limos]

Here's a thought. Cut open your beefiest characters chest cavity and secure the shards under his ribcage. Then sew him shut and use healing magic to close the wounds.

No line of sight or effect
Always attended
No way to pickpocket it
Don't have to put anything in your rectum

[Radar]

You're spending a lot for negative gain.

The more convoluted you are when trying to hide something, check for traps, ect... The more ideas you give the GM. With each thing you add to it's protection, the more specific a would-be thief of it would need to be. In this way, unknown to you, you are creating that character... The character who fits the description perfectly enough to take your MacGuffin... And you're guaranteeing that he'll find the party while they're sleeping.

If a GM would have someone steal it, I can see that as being worth no more than a sidequest to get that piece back. Really... By being PCs on a quest, your victory should already be assured, so long as you don't get a TPK along the way.

Basically, whoever in the party would survive what is otherwise a TPK should take it (with the exception of any GMPCs). I don't know if Warforged have this in 3.5, or if a party member of yours even is one, but in 4, they're perfect for holding up to 20lbs of something secret in a secret compartment within, and when knocked out, they're very likely to get back up with time. Otherwise, I'd just put it in a backpack.

Yes and no. I'm not much of a DM, but i believe, that victory should not be assured - within PC's reach, but not certain. Even from players perspective it's better, because then your decisions are important. I wouldn't be able to fully enjoy an adventure, if my success was set in stone - where is the drama in it? As much as the players, DM also should not use out of character knowledge (or at least do it as little as possible) - if the villians can't know about something, they don't know it. Lycanthromancer written a very good solution to this problem.

Besides RPG games apart from acting are about being creative. Finding ingenius ways to solve various problems. Inventing a complicated safeguards for an artifact can be as fun as anything else - i certainly had a lot of fun reading all the ideas here. :-)

[Stormthorn]

Start with your base chest but after you get most the crystals make the following modifications

Have some sort of hidden locking mechanism on the outside of the chest. Unless it is located and secured then a string will break when you open the chest. The string is tied to a bag of holding with the bandoleer inside that. It is suspended over a portable hole. The string breaks, the bag falls.

And coat the chest in Dragon Bile and layer Ungol Dust inside of it to deter anything vulnerable to poison.

Then have a bunch of fake locks and string-securing mechanisms. Have them set to cast Banishment or a lesser version.

Then, if possible, put it into a Living Vault.
Then Polymorph Any Object that vault (or just the chest) into a single gold coin with a slight physical differance from the standard gold coin (so that you can later retrieve it if needed) then mix it in with a few thousand gold coins and put them all inside of a Mimic (you will probably have to pay or feed it to get it to cooperate, but they arnt evil) and place the Mimic inside the lair of the most powerful good dragon you can find. In factm convince a whole herd of Mimics that life would be sweet living under a dragons protection, and have them all look like the same box.

Really... By being PCs on a quest, your victory should already be assured, so long as you don't get a TPK along the way.

Its this sort of metagame egotism that causes GMs to throw TPKs your way.

[Venerable]

Let me see whether I understand the situation. Your goal is to obtain eight tiny MacGuffins, and you need to protect each one while you get the next. Arrayed against you is the entire host of Evil. Your current plan is to place multiple booby-traps around each MacGuffin, with layered fallbacks and misdirections.

Metagaming aside, you're gonna fail. It's pretty much impossible for a small group to out-think and out-plan a huge, diverse horde of opponents -- particularly opponents with a lot of power.

I suggest matching power with power. If this artifact is so Good, get the combined forces of Good to protect it for you. The Good powers will not want this thing destroyed! To that end, enlist clerics of Good religions (or even entire religious orders), get deities and devas involved, the whole nine yards. Ensure that every Evil attacker will face a comparable Good defender -- or, better yet, several stronger Good defenders.

You'll probably have to give up hope of possessing the MacGuffin once you restore it, but isn't that a small price to pay?