The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...

[Zergrusheddie]

Our group of level 9ish characters are running through the Tomb of Horrors. We've already encountered the statue with the Sphere of Annihilation (The Order of the Stick comics and a good memory saved my ass) and have run into several situations that are just Secret Door inside a Secret Door inside a Secret Door with nothing but a trap that kills everyone. I remember hearing that Tomb of Horrors is one of the most infamous modules ever. What kind of dungeon is this other than a "let's go here and kill everyone!" factory? Please don't post anything too specific, as we are still running it.

Best of luck
-Eddie

[The_Werebear]

It's a kill factory. It produces blood spatters and broken dreams.

Sorry I can't provide more hope, but it's one giant "screw you" after another.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

@ The_Werebear: The term is 'Gygaxian'.

@ The OP: It kills you. A lot. It says 9th level characters, but the traps are near-impossible for a Rogue who isn't seriously focused on traps to find, the encounters are about 3 CRs higher than listed, and the entire thing is arbitrary death.

[JeenLeen]

I ran it using the version updated for 3.5 and it was a cakewalk for my team. I admit that that was because they were playing intelligently--they were terrified because of what they'd heard about--and they were optimized. A Tomb of Battle-based fighter (overcome DR), a helpful utility caster, and a good rogue were all the party needed. A wand of Detect Secret Doors is something a DM running it should ban.

I heard the original version 1 D&D's Tomb of Horrors was very difficult, sometimes if you just step on the wrong square you die, no save, nothing. That might have been an exaggeration, but 3.5 is much easier, it seems.

Edit: I admit that, if not for the ToB fighter, half the party would have killed in the first real fight they got in. Without Detect Secret Doors, they would have wound up in other fights that would have wiped out a lot of enemies. Of all the CR 11+ battles, they only ran into two (including the final boss.)

[Baxbart]

I ran it once for my (granted... they weren't massively experienced) group - and had to introduce a rolling respawn system since people ran out of spare characters to bring in. People died left, right and centre. Iirc, it was around 6 deaths on average per player, and they didn't ever manage to really find what they were looking for before being chased out and giving up.

It is harsh, and though it can be very fun, it can also be very dull for anyone except the trapmonkey quite a lot of the time.

What's worse is that I'm now currently involved in a GURPS conversion of ToH. Now THAT is unbelievably deadly.

[Blackfang108]

Last weekend, playing LFR.

My friend(regarding a tomb we were entering, OOC.): This isn't the Tomb of Horrors, right?
Me (IC): The sign said Acerark(sp?).

He stiffened up so quickly his head cracked the wall behind him.

I was on the floor laughing. (He's currently running through it in a 2e campaign.)

[Starscream]

Yeah, the entire point of ToH is to make players cry while the DM cackles with glee, having finally got revenge for every attempt they made to treat his campaign worlds like their own personal demolition derby.

This article is basically a funny review of the module, with two guys discussing the most horrible features.

I've only done to Tomb once myself. I actually survived (barely), and I've never gone back to it because I don't want to spoil my perfect 1/1 record. Probably the only way to guarantee winning is to memorize the whole thing, and even then some luck will be needed.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Probably the only way to guarantee winning is to memorize the whole thing, and even then some luck will be needed.

No, the only way to win is to play a CN merc, who is only in it for the money, and loots his fallen allies and runs ASAP.

[Waspinator]

If I recall, even in-universe the primary reason it was built is because the owner was a complete jerk.

[shadzar]

You are lucky to get a t-shirt that says you survived the ToH, but even luckier if you ARE alive to wear it afterwards.

I would strongly give this advice:

Spoiler

Show

Touch nothing except the floor.

You did bring your 10' poles with you right?

[chiasaur11]

You are lucky to get a t-shirt that says you survived the ToH, but even luckier if you ARE alive to wear it afterwards.

I would strongly give this advice:

Spoiler

Show

Touch nothing except the floor.

You did bring your 10' poles with you right?

What kind of sucker touches the floor?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I would strongly give this advice:

Spoiler

Show

Touch nothing except the floor.

...ARE YOU TRYING TO GET HIM KILLED?!? It's the TOH! Never, under any circumstances, touch the floor. If you don't have fly at-will, you deserve what you get.

[Lapak]

I heard the original version 1 D&D's Tomb of Horrors was very difficult, sometimes if you just step on the wrong square you die, no save, nothing. That might have been an exaggeration, but 3.5 is much easier, it seems.

The original version was indeed much worse. There were a fair number of times where nothing but nothing but random chance prevented your death (such as getting into the place from the outside) and several places where the obvious course resulted in death, being careful and approaching the puzzle/trap with caution and cleverness resulted in death, and being utterly paranoid resulted in either death or being unable to proceed. ('Touch scepter to crown', I'm looking at you!) Only doing something truly extraordinary - searching one specific area of a room in all possible ways, say - would give you the hint that mind indicate what needed to happen.

The only reliable way of penetrating the 1e Tomb was with an army of backup characters and having some of them retreat so that the backup knew what happened to their predecessors. And of course the final threat was ridiculously over-powered for the recommended level, meaning that the reward for succeeding was a worse and more permanent death.

[monty]

You did bring your 10' poles with you right?

11-foot pole. You now how many things there are with a 10-foot radius?

[Eldariel]

It's an awesome adventure. Kills idiots. It's like Darwin himself designed it. Then again, it kills almost everyone else too. But at least the overly nosy Rogue finally gets what's coming to him.

[Starscream]

It's an awesome adventure. Kills idiots. It's like Darwin himself designed it. Then again, it kills almost everyone else too.

You'd draw a distinction between "Everyone who enters the Tomb of Horrors" and "Idiots"?

[Eldariel]

You'd draw a distinction between "Everyone who enters the Tomb of Horrors" and "Idiots"?

Magical compulsion?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

You'd draw a distinction between "Everyone who enters the Tomb of Horrors" and "Idiots"?

To be fair, many people don't know they're going into it. It's supposed to be just another module from the perspective of the players. It's only some DMs who have a dank, depressed village near the Tomb, filled with people who know how many it kills but are afraid to leave because they don't know what would happen if it doesn't recieve enough blood.

[NeoVid]

See, the creators of this module have a little jar of crushed gamer spirits to mark their success.

[Drascin]

See, the creators of this module have a little jar of crushed gamer spirits to mark their success.

..."little"? I'd expect they have enough to fill an 18-wheeler by now.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

The best way to draw players in is use the "Return to the Tomb of Horrors" adventure. This way, they think they are just investigating a school of necromancers.

But yeah, it's a meatgrinder. From the "welcoming" front door to the end of the line. But if you actually manage to survive it, you will become a legend.

[Gorgondantess]

..."little"? I'd expect they have enough to fill an 18-wheeler by now.

...It's a really big jar.

[Eldan]

Our DM did the only sensible thing: he ran a paranoia conversion of it.

[Swordguy]

I heard the original version 1 D&D's Tomb of Horrors was very difficult, sometimes if you just step on the wrong square you die, no save, nothing. That might have been an exaggeration, but 3.5 is much easier, it seems.

This is true, because the original ToH was not a challenge for the characters. it was a challenge for the players - YOU, the fat guy with glasses sitting at the table, have to figure out how to get around these traps. It's a totally different mindset than "modern" gaming, where the character is considered separate from the player in every way.

Not having the options you do in 3.x helps a LOT in that regard as well. As you said, Wands of Detect Secret Doors completely blow a huge proportion of the adventure (in the original, sans elf or specifically-cast spell, you generally had to look at an image of the scene provided in the adventure and figure out if there was a secret door on your own). Likewise, the ability to "disable device", even if the mechanism is totally concealed or out of reach (which it mostly always is in the ToH) blows a bunch of the challenge out of the water. And this says nothing about stuff like Permanancied Arcane Sight or similar stuff 3,x lets you do.

Finally, I believe this is the best descriptor of the ToH in internet history:

Player 1: I walk into the room.
DM: Are you breathing?
Player 1: Uh, yes.
DM: Make a save vs. poison. Is it a 20? You fall down, dying.
Player 2: Gak! I hold my breath, get to his side and cast Remove Poison.
DM: It's too late - winged devil-monkeys fly out from behind the pillar and counter your spell with advanced laser technology. You also turn into a flounder.
Player 2: What the f-
DM: ...and explode.

[Zergrusheddie]

...ARE YOU TRYING TO GET HIM KILLED?!? It's the TOH! Never, under any circumstances, touch the floor. If you don't have fly at-will, you deserve what you get.

I learnt that in the first corridor when there was a trap every 10 feet. Spider Climb has saved the party (counting on fingers) 6 times so far. Case in point:

DM: There are spikes on either side of the wall in this corridor.
Me: Looking for the mechanism.
DM: You don't find it in the first 10 feet...
Me: Ok, screw that! Running on the ceiling at full speed!
DM: *Evil glare*

Another point was: Finding a Secret Door that was locked and trapped inside a Secret Door that was locked. That Secret Door led to a door which was impossibly locked (The Beast with 38 Strength took the door off it's hinges). A natural 20 on the Search Check finds a trap mechanism and nothing else. When we left the room, the DM actually told us that it was just a pit trap into lava, door would slam shut, and the floor would reclose and basically be auto-death...

No one has died yet, but my Beguiler has been taken down to -9 HP from a trapped altar and been submerged in Green Slime. Thanks for all the comments and thanks again for not giving anything away. The fact that this got so many posts so quickly makes me think that this Death Factory has ticked loads of people off.

Best of luck
-Eddie

[SoD]

The only real way to get everyone to praise you and treat you like a god for completing the Tomb of Horrors; don't do it and say you did.

And for gods sake, if you're a ninja, do NOT turn ethereal.

[mostlyharmful]

Death. Death. I say unto thee DEEEEAAAATTTHHHHH....... for no damn apparant reason and completely randomly, the wall eats you, the ceiling falls on you, the traps are trapped with secret uber traps which are of course also trapped, the puzzles are insane, the secrets are dangerous to know and the friggin' clues are either misleading or traps in themselves. Oh, and don't what ever you do try to go ethereal or the rabid demon penguins eat your soul.

[Zergrusheddie]

Yeah, the DM actually said that it was loaded with Ethereal killers, so don't do Jaunts or anything. The entire place has the party scared out of their wits.

[mostlyharmful]

Yeah, the DM actually said that it was loaded with Ethereal killers, so don't do Jaunts or anything. The entire place has the party scared out of their wits.

Good. They might make it two or even three rooms in.

[Flickerdart]

..."little"? I'd expect they have enough to fill an 18-wheeler by now.

Nah, people who try Tomb of Horrors are very dense.