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2009-05-18, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
Our group of level 9ish characters are running through the Tomb of Horrors. We've already encountered the statue with the Sphere of Annihilation (The Order of the Stick comics and a good memory saved my ass) and have run into several situations that are just Secret Door inside a Secret Door inside a Secret Door with nothing but a trap that kills everyone. I remember hearing that Tomb of Horrors is one of the most infamous modules ever. What kind of dungeon is this other than a "let's go here and kill everyone!" factory? Please don't post anything too specific, as we are still running it.
Best of luck
-Eddie
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2009-05-18, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
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- Lincoln
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2009-05-18, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
- Location
- Texas...for now
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Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
@ The_Werebear: The term is 'Gygaxian'.
@ The OP: It kills you. A lot. It says 9th level characters, but the traps are near-impossible for a Rogue who isn't seriously focused on traps to find, the encounters are about 3 CRs higher than listed, and the entire thing is arbitrary death.[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-05-18, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
I ran it using the version updated for 3.5 and it was a cakewalk for my team. I admit that that was because they were playing intelligently--they were terrified because of what they'd heard about--and they were optimized. A Tomb of Battle-based fighter (overcome DR), a helpful utility caster, and a good rogue were all the party needed. A wand of Detect Secret Doors is something a DM running it should ban.
I heard the original version 1 D&D's Tomb of Horrors was very difficult, sometimes if you just step on the wrong square you die, no save, nothing. That might have been an exaggeration, but 3.5 is much easier, it seems.
Edit: I admit that, if not for the ToB fighter, half the party would have killed in the first real fight they got in. Without Detect Secret Doors, they would have wound up in other fights that would have wiped out a lot of enemies. Of all the CR 11+ battles, they only ran into two (including the final boss.)Last edited by JeenLeen; 2009-05-18 at 01:20 PM.
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2009-05-18, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Loughborough, England
- Gender
Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
I ran it once for my (granted... they weren't massively experienced) group - and had to introduce a rolling respawn system since people ran out of spare characters to bring in. People died left, right and centre. Iirc, it was around 6 deaths on average per player, and they didn't ever manage to really find what they were looking for before being chased out and giving up.
It is harsh, and though it can be very fun, it can also be very dull for anyone except the trapmonkey quite a lot of the time.
What's worse is that I'm now currently involved in a GURPS conversion of ToH. Now THAT is unbelievably deadly.
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2009-05-18, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Gender
Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
Last weekend, playing LFR.
My friend(regarding a tomb we were entering, OOC.): This isn't the Tomb of Horrors, right?
Me (IC): The sign said Acerark(sp?).
He stiffened up so quickly his head cracked the wall behind him.
I was on the floor laughing. (He's currently running through it in a 2e campaign.)
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2009-05-18, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Elyria, Ohio
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Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
Yeah, the entire point of ToH is to make players cry while the DM cackles with glee, having finally got revenge for every attempt they made to treat his campaign worlds like their own personal demolition derby.
This article is basically a funny review of the module, with two guys discussing the most horrible features.
I've only done to Tomb once myself. I actually survived (barely), and I've never gone back to it because I don't want to spoil my perfect 1/1 record. Probably the only way to guarantee winning is to memorize the whole thing, and even then some luck will be needed.How to Play Rogues Properly:
SpoilerLike this:
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2009-05-18, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Texas...for now
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Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-05-18, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
If I recall, even in-universe the primary reason it was built is because the owner was a complete jerk.
"It's not like chess, where choosing to play black or white dictates your entire strategy. Also, chess doesn't have steam cannons."
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2009-05-18, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- Mandelbrot set
Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
You are lucky to get a t-shirt that says you survived the ToH, but even luckier if you ARE alive to wear it afterwards.
I would strongly give this advice:
SpoilerTouch nothing except the floor.
You did bring your 10' poles with you right?
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2009-05-18, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
Remember how I was wishing for the peace of oblivion a minute ago?
Yeah. That hasn't exactly changed with more knowledge of the situation. -Security Chief Victor Jones, formerly of the UESC Marathon.
X-Com avatar by BRC. He's good folks.
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2009-05-18, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Texas...for now
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Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-05-18, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
The original version was indeed much worse. There were a fair number of times where nothing but nothing but random chance prevented your death (such as getting into the place from the outside) and several places where the obvious course resulted in death, being careful and approaching the puzzle/trap with caution and cleverness resulted in death, and being utterly paranoid resulted in either death or being unable to proceed. ('Touch scepter to crown', I'm looking at you!) Only doing something truly extraordinary - searching one specific area of a room in all possible ways, say - would give you the hint that mind indicate what needed to happen.
The only reliable way of penetrating the 1e Tomb was with an army of backup characters and having some of them retreat so that the backup knew what happened to their predecessors. And of course the final threat was ridiculously over-powered for the recommended level, meaning that the reward for succeeding was a worse and more permanent death.
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2009-05-18, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Fresno (yes, THAT Fresno)
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2009-05-18, 03:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
It's an awesome adventure. Kills idiots. It's like Darwin himself designed it. Then again, it kills almost everyone else too. But at least the overly nosy Rogue finally gets what's coming to him.
Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.
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2009-05-18, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
- Location
- Elyria, Ohio
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2009-05-18, 03:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- Finland
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Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.
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2009-05-18, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Texas...for now
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Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
To be fair, many people don't know they're going into it. It's supposed to be just another module from the perspective of the players. It's only some DMs who have a dank, depressed village near the Tomb, filled with people who know how many it kills but are afraid to leave because they don't know what would happen if it doesn't recieve enough blood.
[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-05-18, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
- Location
- CA East Bay
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Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
See, the creators of this module have a little jar of crushed gamer spirits to mark their success.
"I don't approve of society, so I try not to participate in it."
=====
Avatar of Karl the human by Bradakhan
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2009-05-18, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
- Location
- Under Mt. Ebott
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2009-05-18, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
- Location
- White Sands Missile Range
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Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
The best way to draw players in is use the "Return to the Tomb of Horrors" adventure. This way, they think they are just investigating a school of necromancers.
But yeah, it's a meatgrinder. From the "welcoming" front door to the end of the line. But if you actually manage to survive it, you will become a legend.Thanks to Ceika (X2), Yeril, Holammer and Dr. Bath for the Avatars!
New Avatar, new form of self-destruction! Ceika is Beyond Awesome!
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2009-05-18, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
- Location
- Not in a human colon
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2009-05-18, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
- Location
- Switzerland
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Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
Our DM did the only sensible thing: he ran a paranoia conversion of it.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2009-05-18, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Covington, KY
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Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
This is true, because the original ToH was not a challenge for the characters. it was a challenge for the players - YOU, the fat guy with glasses sitting at the table, have to figure out how to get around these traps. It's a totally different mindset than "modern" gaming, where the character is considered separate from the player in every way.
Not having the options you do in 3.x helps a LOT in that regard as well. As you said, Wands of Detect Secret Doors completely blow a huge proportion of the adventure (in the original, sans elf or specifically-cast spell, you generally had to look at an image of the scene provided in the adventure and figure out if there was a secret door on your own). Likewise, the ability to "disable device", even if the mechanism is totally concealed or out of reach (which it mostly always is in the ToH) blows a bunch of the challenge out of the water. And this says nothing about stuff like Permanancied Arcane Sight or similar stuff 3,x lets you do.
Finally, I believe this is the best descriptor of the ToH in internet history:
Player 1: I walk into the room.
DM: Are you breathing?
Player 1: Uh, yes.
DM: Make a save vs. poison. Is it a 20? You fall down, dying.
Player 2: Gak! I hold my breath, get to his side and cast Remove Poison.
DM: It's too late - winged devil-monkeys fly out from behind the pillar and counter your spell with advanced laser technology. You also turn into a flounder.
Player 2: What the f-
DM: ...and explode.Originally Posted by Dervag
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2009-05-18, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
I learnt that in the first corridor when there was a trap every 10 feet. Spider Climb has saved the party (counting on fingers) 6 times so far. Case in point:
DM: There are spikes on either side of the wall in this corridor.
Me: Looking for the mechanism.
DM: You don't find it in the first 10 feet...
Me: Ok, screw that! Running on the ceiling at full speed!
DM: *Evil glare*
Another point was: Finding a Secret Door that was locked and trapped inside a Secret Door that was locked. That Secret Door led to a door which was impossibly locked (The Beast with 38 Strength took the door off it's hinges). A natural 20 on the Search Check finds a trap mechanism and nothing else. When we left the room, the DM actually told us that it was just a pit trap into lava, door would slam shut, and the floor would reclose and basically be auto-death...
No one has died yet, but my Beguiler has been taken down to -9 HP from a trapped altar and been submerged in Green Slime. Thanks for all the comments and thanks again for not giving anything away. The fact that this got so many posts so quickly makes me think that this Death Factory has ticked loads of people off.
Best of luck
-EddieLast edited by Zergrusheddie; 2009-05-18 at 04:41 PM.
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2009-05-18, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
The only real way to get everyone to praise you and treat you like a god for completing the Tomb of Horrors; don't do it and say you did.
And for gods sake, if you're a ninja, do NOT turn ethereal.For the last time, it stands for Shadow of Darkness!
Thankin' Nevitan fer me babytar!
Kasaad Shadowweb-Chitine Paladin of Freedom (now a clickable link!).
Genderbender week comin' up! SoDess by Bisected8 *applause*
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2009-05-18, 05:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- London
- Gender
Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
Death. Death. I say unto thee DEEEEAAAATTTHHHHH....... for no damn apparant reason and completely randomly, the wall eats you, the ceiling falls on you, the traps are trapped with secret uber traps which are of course also trapped, the puzzles are insane, the secrets are dangerous to know and the friggin' clues are either misleading or traps in themselves. Oh, and don't what ever you do try to go ethereal or the rabid demon penguins eat your soul.
Give them bread and circusses and the plebs wont rise against you. Give adventurers dungeons and trapped chests and they won't waste time looking to ransack your home and kill your wife.
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2009-05-18, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
Yeah, the DM actually said that it was loaded with Ethereal killers, so don't do Jaunts or anything. The entire place has the party scared out of their wits.
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2009-05-18, 05:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- London
- Gender
Re: The Tomb of Horrors: You've got to be kidding...
Give them bread and circusses and the plebs wont rise against you. Give adventurers dungeons and trapped chests and they won't waste time looking to ransack your home and kill your wife.
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2009-05-18, 05:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- NYC
- Gender