[3.5] Dire bear versus dire tiger

[NephandiMan]

Hey, all. I'm playing a druid, currently level 7, but our DM says she intends to take the game up to epic levels. Prior to that, however, I'll be faced with a choice: keep the dire bear animal companion that I'll eventually take, or replace it with a dire tiger? (I haven't considered dinosaurs because I don't recall seeing any of them near Waterdeep, where our party currently resides). For ease of reference, here are the relevant SRD sections:

Animal Companion Advancement

Dire Bear

Dire Tiger

I did some number-crunching, and figured that by the time I can take the tiger, the bear will have higher Con and more HP, as well as higher AC (due to natural armor boosts) and higher Strength (leading to higher grapple and attack bonuses). The tiger, on the other hand, gets a rake attack, and can actually be stealthy (assuming we ever need that).

So, my fellow forumites, which do you think would be a better choice for animal companion, combat-wise? Feel free also to tackle the larger question of the efficacy of grappling in and of itself versus grappling-plus-raking.

[Eldariel]

Dire Tiger. Why? Pounce. Dire Tiger does so much more than Dire Bear on the first round of the combat without any actions spent by you that it's definitely the superior option. Besides, on the levels you get it, grappling becomes a true PiTA anyways.

[NephandiMan]

Good point... but how is grappling any more of a pain in the rear at level 16 and above than it is at any other time? Are you referring to opponents' significantly improved chances of escaping a grapple at those levels?

[Flickerdart]

The Bear becomes Huge a lot sooner than the Tiger, if that's what you fancy.

[ZeroNumerous]

Screw both and take the oft forgotten Dire Weasel. Not only is it super stealthy, but with a quick greater invisibility spell it becomes 1d4 CON damage a round that can't be stopped, gives no Fort save and becomes basically stupidly broken against anything eligible for ability damage. It's made only worse by Stoneskinning it or throwing down Giant Vermin(Centipedes) to grapple and pin the target before the weasel starts CON damaging it to death.

[Gorbash]

The Bear becomes Huge a lot sooner than the Tiger, if that's what you fancy.

Neither of them advances in size.

Bonus HD isn't the same as HD advancement.

[NephandiMan]

@ZeroNumerous: Interesting suggestion, and definitely something I would not have considered on my own. However, by level 16 (which is when this whole quandary becomes relevant), the weasel would have a grapple modifier of +15 (18 Str, +11 BAB, +4 for becoming Large via HD increase). I haven't made a survey of level-appropriate challenges, but it seems like it would be relatively easy for them to win a grapple check and remove said weasel - to say nothing of enemies at that level that are immune to Con damage.

Speaking of becoming large...

@Flickerdart: I thought animal companions didn't increase in size as their HD increased (in which case, of course, the weasel in Zero's scenario would be even easier for its hapless target to remove).

Edit: ninja'd in my own thread. First time that's ever happened to me.

[Eldariel]

Good point... but how is grappling any more of a pain in the rear at level 16 and above than it is at any other time? Are you referring to opponents' significantly improved chances of escaping a grapple at those levels?

I'm referring to the constantly increasing sizes and HDs (and thus BABs) of creatures you're likely to face, along with the escalating strength/availability of Freedom of Movement for Humanoid opponents. Winning the Grapple-check, or even just getting one, becomes a chore around level ~12. Charging is simply more reliable as it isn't totally shut down by any defense.

[ericgrau]

Dire Bear (advanced)
combat stats: 122 HP, 19 AC, 21/21/15 AB, 16/16/15 avg. dmg.
average DPR vs. CR 14* (AC 27): 11.25 single, 32.25 full, 21.35 grapple
hasted DPR: 47.4 full, 33.3 grapple
saves: fort/ref/will 13/10/9
movement: 40 feet
special: large size, improved grab on claw, evasion

Dire Tiger
combat stats: 120 HP, 17 AC, 20/20/14 AB or 22/22/20/20/16 (pounce), 13/13/11 or 13/13/9/9/11 avg. dmg.
average DPR vs. CR 14* (AC 27): 9.1 single, 22.6 full, 38.9 pounce (but -2 AC), 26 grapple
hasted DPR: 34.2 full, 45.9 pounce (but -2 AC), 35.9 grapple
movement: 40 feet
saves: fort/ref/will 13/12/11
special: large size, improved grab on bite, pounce
* arbitrary monster CR for a 16th level party; 4 CR 14 monsters is a CR 18 encounter

Both have lousy initiative. The tiger gets more damage in round 1 assuming the enemy hasn't already engaged it. But by round 3 the bear makes up for it with his more powerful full attacks. The bear has a far higher chance of starting a grapple since he gets 2 attempts at a high AB vs. the tiger's 1 attempt at low AB. He also has a +1 higher grapple mod. Once in a grapple the tiger does a little more damage though. The bear takes about 10-15% less damage from his AC. Unless you don't buff your companion's AC, in which case CR 14 monsters will be hitting both animals on anything short of a natural 1.

Remember that grapplers are denied their dex bonus to AC, need to make concentration checks to cast or use SLA's, spells must be without somatic components, etc.

I'd say go with the dire tiger if you expect to take out your opponents within 1-2 rounds. i.e., if you're helping the tiger take down his target, because he won't accomplish that alone. Then he can pounce over and over again. If you expect the tiger to take longer and/or want a grappler to disable certain opponents, then go with the bear: he'll do a little more damage, withstand a little more hits and he's more likely to start a grapple. i.e., do you want a "tiger" for multiple rapid strikes against multiple opponents or a "bear" for more damage or grappling in the long run against a single opponent?

[Salt_Crow]

I always liked Dire Bear over dire tigers until I saw this video.

Now I think I'm getting in touch with my inner furry. "Tiger... awesomeness..." *drools*