Roleplaying a demon/devil

[BenTheJester]

I will be playing a demon for the first time ever next campaign.
Knowing quite a lot about human psychology in real life, I can usually apply that to my characters to make them realistic to the core.

While an elf or dwarf has a different mindset from a human, the similarities are still quite numerous.
A demon, now that's something else. They don't grow from a young age, they just *poof* appear from the abyss, they don't have feelings, at least not in the way humanoids do, and think completely differently.
So this is why I need help to give my Succubus some good personnality traits. I have read both Fiendish Codex, so I know quite a bit about fiends, I just don't know what personnality to give her.

I don't want her to be the classic "seduce, level-drain, go to town" stereotype.

Build:

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I will be using the Savage Species class progession for my Succubus since we start low-level.
My build will be something like: Succubus 12/Paladin of Tyranny 2/Fiend of Possession 6.
Yes, she is Lawful Evil. And I will be taking Brand of the Nine Hells and later, Mark of Nessus.

Resumed backstory:

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-Born(formed out of the Abyss itself) on the 570th layer of the abyss, Illile was Gated in by the Black Cult of Ahm while she was still just a young demon(<1 day old).
-Was magically bound and was subjected to a spell that slowed the evolution of a demon so they could study how they evolved.
-The cult was convinced by another cultist(who was a worshipper of Asmodeus) to give her to his master, so she could serve in his name.
-She was deported to Nessus and she pledged herself to Asmodeus, and she is now collecting souls in his name.
-Being exposed to nothing but pure Lawful Evil from the begining of her existence, her chaotic tendencies got suppressed in favor of law.

[Calinero]

Hm. All sorts of interesting possibilities here. One area to look at--how well does she understand humanity? Is she curious about what they do, observing from the outside (and occasionally poking with a stick to see what happens)? Or does she understand their feelings, and revel in manipulating them? Just try to figure out what emotions she does have, if any, and if she doesn't have any, which ones does she pretend to have? What are her motivations?

[Telonius]

Well, the usual questions about motivation are particularly applicable here, but depend a lot on the nature of your gaming world. Just how free are devils and demons able to be? Is it something that's inborn, or chosen? Or is it more like being an elemental, with Evil standing in for Water or Earth? I can't answer those questions for you, it would be something you'd need to work out with your DM. Depending on what the answers are, your characterization would proceed from there.

One thing I might suggest ... your character might be totally evil, but she's not omniscient. She'll pursue the course that she thinks is likely to lead to greatest evil in the long run, to the best of her abilities, given the information she has at the time.

That sort of judgment of precisely what things would lead to the greatest evil, could be the thing that really defines the character. What does she think will produce more evil, a plague, or a corrupt judge? Is suffering an end in itself? Is lust a better way to corrupt than greed or wrath? (Since she's a succubus, she's obviously best at lust, but does she consider other methods to be more effective, if only she could master them?)

[Optimystik]

I'm going to assume you meant to say "Chaotic Evil" in that spoiler.

You read FC1, so you probably saw most of what I'm going to tell you, but here anyway:
-Their primary motives are fear and hate.
-Chaos! Demons rarely focus on one thing for very long.
-They enjoy causing confusion, even when doing so might be against their best interests. Be unpredictable, lie for the fun of it, disobey orders unless the person who gave them is significantly stronger than you. Any spells you cast should reflect that aspect of your nature.
-Succubi dislike combat, even if they could likely win. Only fight when cornered or you significantly outmatch your opponent. Be flighty and difficult for others to count on. Keep trying to get members of the party to go off somewhere with you alone. And avoid paladins!

[hamishspence]

"Chaotic tendencies got suppressed in favour of law"

LE succubi have been done- Dragon Magazine- Wee Jas, changed by magic.

[KillianHawkeye]

Just remember that you still retain your [chaotic] subtype and are affected by spells/etc. accordingly. And you are also affected by spells as a lawful creature.

[hamishspence]

There are rituals in Savage Species to add or remove alignment subtypes- good idea for such a succubus.

[JackMage666]

Play a Succubus that has self-respect for herself and her body?

"What!? No, I'm not going to sleep with you. Yes, I'm a succubus? What!? You think we're all alike!? No, I'm just going to disembowel you."

[Jothki]

Evil outsiders would likely have trouble grasping why someone would be anything other than completely evil. They'd know that humans often pride themselves on helping others, and they might have a good grasp of the mechanics behind human decisions, but on some fundamental level they would have difficultly unterstanding acting outside of one's own interests.

[Pronounceable]

Also remember that demons hate everyone and everything. Think of someone you loathe in real life, think of something you'd go mad over even if done by someone you love dearly, then get the loathsome person to gleefully do that. That's how a generally merry demon feels on a good day.

Chaotic tendencies can be suppressed, but hate is integral. The only thing that approaches joy average demon ever feels is in making others suffer. The real meat of characterization you can make is there.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Also remember that demons hate everyone and everything. Think of someone you loathe in real life, think of something you'd go mad over even if done by someone you love dearly, then get the loathsome person to gleefully do that. That's how a generally merry demon feels on a good day.

Chaotic tendencies can be suppressed, but hate is integral. The only thing that approaches joy average demon ever feels is in making others suffer. The real meat of characterization you can make is there.

But it's also good to note that they don't outwardly ACT like a person might with those feelings. After thousands of years of it and having been created/spawned/born that way, they're used to it. They could seem dark on the outside, but for a succubus it's very easy to hide... but do something like say, a read thoughts spell and it's gonna be nothing but rage, hatred and in the case of a succubus, lust.

[Kaiyanwang]

"Chaotic tendencies got suppressed in favour of law"

LE succubi have been done- Dragon Magazine- Wee Jas, changed by magic.

I remember - but I dislike it a lot. In my campaings, the tie of outsiders with their subtypes is very tight.

My humanoids alignment vary more, if not maybe for Elves and Dwarves, but Ousiders remain ideas made flesh.

[Swordguy]

Read Tales of MU. That should be inspiring.

[Calmness]

What is the rest of the party playing? Just curious.

[Tiki Snakes]

I will be playing a demon for the first time ever next campaign.
Knowing quite a lot about human psychology in real life, I can usually apply that to my characters to make them realistic to the core.

While an elf or dwarf has a different mindset from a human, the similarities are still quite numerous.
A demon, now that's something else. They don't grow from a young age, they just *poof* appear from the abyss, they don't have feelings, at least not in the way humanoids do, and think completely differently.
So this is why I need help to give my Succubus some good personnality traits. I have read both Fiendish Codex, so I know quite a bit about fiends, I just don't know what personnality to give her.

I don't want her to be the classic "seduce, level-drain, go to town" stereotype.

If you don't want to play her as a cliche, ignore the 'does not follow human psychology' schtick. Play her as a person. A person who may not understand intricate customs, probably has a high libido, and will have certain tendancies as far as general behaviour goes that ties in with the good-vs-evil alignment, but don't make it too big a part of the character.

Complex Character > Pantomime Evil.

I would personally say that if anything, not only will a Succubus have feelings, but is likely to experience them with far greater intensity than most people.

[Fishy]

There's always Falls-From-Grace, proprietor of the Brother For Slaking Intellectual Lusts. :P

Since she was pressed into human culture and service the day after she was spawned, it would be entirely appropriate and possible for her to simply self-identify as human- and if she hasn't, she certainly has enough to pass as one easily. But that's cheating, and non-human sapients are awesome.

So, I don't know how the progression works, but a fully-grown 3.5 succubus is an absolute master of evading the consequences of her actions. Between Change Shape, Ethereal Jaunt, and Greater Teleport, all at will, any time things stop being fun for her she can just go somewhere else and be someone else. And that's before the mind-control and immunity to scrapes, bruises, burns, and other casual hazards of the material plane. Even if they weren't Always Chaotic Evil, having that kind of power their whole life could easily give someone the moral development of a spoiled and selfish child. Is there any compelling reason why she shouldn't always do whatever she wants all the time?

... And then you're right back to boring seduce/level drain/'because I can'. Nevermind.

[Tiki Snakes]

... And then you're right back to boring seduce/level drain/'because I can'. Nevermind.

Except that you have arrived there for an interesting reason. If you then tackle the reason head on, and play the 'spoiled child' coming to terms with, due to being involved in a party, no longer being able to get away with everything, no longer care-free and foot-loose, you've got a classy bit of character growth to play with as she starts to actually have to deal with the consequences of her actions for the first time in her life.

Depending on the party and the campaign, you could take that in any number of interesting directions.

[Optimystik]

I remember - but I dislike it a lot. In my campaings, the tie of outsiders with their subtypes is very tight.

My humanoids alignment vary more, if not maybe for Elves and Dwarves, but Ousiders remain ideas made flesh.

I agree wholeheartedly. Making a succubus lawful should arguably cause it to cease to exist (or at the very least, make it cease being a succubus.) Alignment isn't a choice for Outsiders; it completely defines them.

This is doubly true for the ethics axis. Good and Evil represent the ends, Law and Chaos represent the means. Changing someone's end goal is feasible, but to change the means they pursue is to alter their character so fundamentally as to all but destroy it.

[BenTheJester]

I know being Lawful is against everything, but I guess I could bend the rules for once.

I really like your ideas, continue that way.

What is the rest of the party playing? Just curious.

I still don't know, it might even be a good party.
In case of an evil party, my role will be simple.
In case of a good party, I will have to spend all my time in a humanoid form, probably an half-elf or something, and be able to "shapechange" into a bugbear or other good fighting humanoid in fights. My party will never get to see my character sheet in such case, and I will pose as a party face with my insane charisma.

[Tiki Snakes]

I strongly reccomend getting your DM's opinion on the nature of such outsiders. Specifically, how tied they are to their 'native alignment'. (peh.)

If there's the possibility of the Succubus ever being non-evil, it will make the good party a lot more survivable if you allow the possibility of that in your character. (if she can be made, over time and with influence, merely neutral? You might even survive being found out. It's got to be a good thing, right?)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I strongly reccomend getting your DM's opinion on the nature of such outsiders. Specifically, how tied they are to their 'native alignment'. (peh.)

If there's the possibility of the Succubus ever being non-evil, it will make the good party a lot more survivable if you allow the possibility of that in your character. (if she can be made, over time and with influence, merely neutral? You might even survive being found out. It's got to be a good thing, right?)

Heck, use my anti-Drizzt concept. She has heard rumors of a Succubus who has risen so far beyond her roots that she is now a Paladin, and has modeled herself off of this paragon of virtue. Her greatest desire is to meet her one day. At which point you make use of your 10 Assassin levels and make sure one of you is dead at the end of the day.

[BenTheJester]

No, I definately want to keep her evil. Changing one side of her alignment is already enough.

Also, I like the challenge of fitting in a good group. My DM said I would get my hand early on a Ring of Undetectable alignment to help me.(Modified Ring of Mind Shielding that just has the undetectable alignment property)

My DM already approved me being Lawful. Since she was taken away from the abyss before she could even be "completed", she isn't made of pure "chaotic essence".
I assume that normally a demon would be born from this chaotic essence and instantly grow to its full mature form, but she was taken away in that short instant between creation and completion, and was then deported to Baator, where, instead of using this "chaotic essence" to grow, she used the strong Lawful-aligned energies ever present in Baator(especially since she went straight to Nessus).

I still don't know whether she will keep the chaotic subtype(the basic essence are stong enough) or trade for the lawful one(the lawful energies suppressed her chaotic essence) or just completely drop it(both are not strong enough).

[Herobizkit]

The funny thing about LAWFUL evil is, people tend to forget that they are the cunning, charismatic, "cool" bad guys that can rally a foolish amount of people to follow him and hang on his every word.

Consider the following stolen from a different RPG; I have found this to be one of the best description of Lawful Evil:

The cliché that there is "No honor among thieves." is false when dealing with [this type of] character. This is a person who is driven to attain his goals through force, power, and intimidation. Yet [this type of] person stands apart from the norm, with his own, personal code of ethics (although twisted ethics by the standards of good). He expects loyalty from his minions, punishing disloyalty and treachery with a swift, merciful death. [This type of] person will always keep his word of honor and uphold any bargains. He will define his terms and live by them, whether anyone else likes it or not.

• Always keep his word of honor (he is honorable).
• Lie to and cheat those not worthy of his respect.
• May or may not kill an unarmed foe.
• Not kill (may harm, kidnap) an innocent, particularly a child.
• Never kills for pleasure.
• Not resort to inhumane treatment of prisoners, but torture, although distasteful, is a necessary means of extracting information.
• Never torture for pleasure.
• May or may not help someone in need.
• Work with others to attain his goals.
• Respect honor and self-discipline.
• Never betray a friend.

This should help in figuring out how to assimilate into a group.

[hamishspence]

I can remember reading one of the books based on that ruleset. Superheroes, mutants, and whatnot.

Oddly, Sir Gareth in Waterdeep, City Of Splendours sourcebook, while fitting much of this, especially ther Not Lying, is CE.

[Herobizkit]

Oddly, Sir Gareth in Waterdeep, City Of Splendours sourcebook, while fitting much of this, especially ther Not Lying, is CE.

All bets are off when Waterdeep is concerned. While Sir Gareth may choose not to lie, I believe he acts in a non-CE manner because he refuses to believe that he is CE. From the FR Wiki (emphasis mine):

After saving the life of Hronrulf, Gareth lost the use of his right hand and was forced to retire from the Knights of Samular. It was at this time that he also fell from the grace of Tyr, began to worship the deity Cyric and sabotaged all that he previously strived to uphold. It was his actions that allowed Dag Zoreth of Darkhold to nearly unite the Rings of Samular as well as posess the Kezefbane for the Zhentarim.

Despite this, Gareth has never admitted to himself that he no longer worships the Maimed God, deluding himself that he is one of the deity's faithful. He maintains this rationale with self-delusion and in some cases complete denial.

So, yeah, the power of denial is quite... erm... powerful.

[JellyPooga]

I've always thought that outsiders of all sorts (good and evil, lawful and chaotic) should all be more than willing to take the really long term view by human standards...I mean, these guys simply do not die from old age; a year to them is like a day to us, a century a year and a millenium a decade...they can most definitely wait a couple of days for a plan to come to fruition. Even (most) Demons in their chaotic evilness are intelligent enough to see that patience is a virtue well worth displaying...jam tomorrow and all that.

So to a human, a Lawful-ised Demon might well seem really laid back whilst it waits for it's devilishly (pun intended) complex plans to bear fruit...set things in motion that might take days (or more) to see results. Take the subtle approach that takes longer and has the same effect as a more direct action but has the added benefit of covering your tracks. Always go by the devious route.

[Ninetail]

A demon, now that's something else. They don't grow from a young age, they just *poof* appear from the abyss, they don't have feelings, at least not in the way humanoids do, and think completely differently.

So this is why I need help to give my Succubus some good personnality traits. I have read both Fiendish Codex, so I know quite a bit about fiends, I just don't know what personnality to give her.

I don't want her to be the classic "seduce, level-drain, go to town" stereotype.

I'd build her as you would any other character, really.

Even if you're taking the "don't have real feelings, etc." approach, bear in mind that a succubus is a demon expressly "made" to tempt mortals. Therefore, she must be able to pass as one. She must have the capacity to understand them (in order to best seek out their weaknesses and use those against them, if nothing else). For anything of true impact -- any grand design beyond the simple and straightforward "hammers" of lust, greed, and the rest -- she must be able to relate to mortals.

In order to do that, she must either have feelings, or be able to mock them well enough that nobody would know the difference.

So, what kind of feelings?

Well, she's an invulnerable (relative to mortals), immortal being with no moral compass to speak of. At will, she can read others' thoughts, bewitch them to serve her whim, change her shape, and, if things go bad, turn ethereal or teleport. She can go anywhere, be anyone, charm most anyone into doing whatever she pleases, and uncover the deepest, darkest secrets of just about anyone she happens to run into.

Stereotypically, she doesn't care for violence, but she's very capable of it if you choose to make her so. More importantly, she doesn't need to resort to violence. She's the ultimate spymaster. (A couple of rogue levels would make her absolutely devastating, but her base abilities are quite enough.) There's almost nowhere she can't go, almost nothing she can't learn, and there's nothing at all keeping her from using what she learns to blackmail into submission or just outright destroy whoever it is she happens to target. And she'll be delighted to do it. She doesn't even need a reason; crushing her enemies is its own reward. She's almost impossible for most people to stop, let alone catch -- and if they did, many of them couldn't harm her to begin with.

She's likely to be a bit egotistical, but if she isn't -- if she keeps a level head and has a decent sense of judgement -- then she's really dangerous.