OOTS #656 - The Discussion Thread

[Masamune]

Epic! The bane of all invisible characters, eh?

Invisibility is rather easily made obvious if someone sees a door open by itself.

[motub]

Invisibility is rather easily made obvious if someone sees a door open by itself.

Or hears it open, even if they're not looking, because it squeaks (hence the strip's title ).

[motub]

Prediction: Xykon will be distracted by O-Chul and/or V for a crucial few seconds,

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Blackwing snatches up Xykon's phylactery and drops it into the void for the win. ;-)

.... so you think that the "big result" of beating this lesson (literally) into V's head is that V

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will finally remember that shi is never actually alone, but always has one team member available to hir (her familiar)

?

<rotfl> Well, I guess it would be a start, anyway. </rotfl> But I gotta say, it would be like slamming away at a mountain of granite for two hours with a jackhammer... sweat pouring off you, ears completely destroyed, exhausted and sore.... and finally, a pebble breaks off and rolls away. Only 12,000,000 more like that, and we've got a tunnel through the mountain ,

But you're right, that would be cool.

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Though I don't know how Blackwing has been getting V to take that Ginko Biloba that the Oracle advised (it helps memory and brain function), since he's so rarely called upon....

P.S. In case you hadn't guessed, I at least think that your prediction is wackily plausible enough to deserve spoiler tags; you might want to adjust your original post and add them as well (as I understand it, this is a politeness to The Giant, who may feel forced/impelled to change whatever he's going to do because someone guessed/spilled it ahead of time).

[BillyJimBoBob]

Methinks the imps use of the feminine objective pronoun when describing the elf has given away V's long-opined gender.

Or maybe not.

Not. C'mon, admit it, you people do this on purpose, don't you?

Eventually just about every second creature you'll encounter will have permanent true seeing right from the MM.

Eventually, at the point where 3.x is no longer an adventure game and devolves into a series of competing magical tactics. Think about it for a minute: Every other creature wouldn't need True Seeing if there weren't so many spells which created "You can't see me and I kill you" scenarios.

[Faramir]

Wait a mo...

Are we seriously still arguing/complaining about the fact that the characters in this strip aren't optimized? ...

I'm sorry, your argument isn't sufficiently optimized for me to take it seriously.


:)

[BillyJimBoBob]

Says who? Where was that ever said, anywhere? "Usually evil" has never been said to mean "usually combat-oriented," and if ALL goblins normally kill people why doesn't the army have any women?

Who needs to say something which has been shown in the strip over and over? Please point out the hobgoblins living in an idyllic, verdant river valley, peacefully trading with their neighbors whilst composing flowery poetry. All I've seen is a bunch of armed and armored hobgoblins attacking a city of humans.

And as for the females? They killed and ate them. It's as good a theory as most of yours.

[B. Dandelion]

Who needs to say something which has been shown in the strip over and over? Please point out the hobgoblins living in an idyllic, verdant river valley, peacefully trading with their neighbors whilst composing flowery poetry. All I've seen is a bunch of armed and armored hobgoblins attacking a city of humans.

Well....

And as for the females? They killed and ate them. It's as good a theory as most of yours.

That would just be plain impractical.

[BillyJimBoBob]

Well....

Try this for a more rational perspective. Unless, of course, you really feel that a gag strip counters the many other examples.

That would just be plain impractical.

Why? Since hobgoblins reproduce via binary fission the females are simply weaker, more tasty members of hobgoblin society, right?

[spargel]

Try this for a more rational perspective. Unless, of course, you really feel that a gag strip counters the many other examples.

Everyone can point out an example of a species doing something bad.

Why? Since hobgoblins reproduce via binary fission the females are simply weaker, more tasty members of hobgoblin society, right?

Strawman logic doesn't work.

[B. Dandelion]

Try this for a more rational perspective.

Rational. Right. Of course. You know what you remind me of, is those "rational" people who keep telling us that torture is morally acceptable because sometimes we have "no choice," and torture WORKS. Except then when evidence comes down the line that it doesn't work, they're putting their fingers in their ears and going "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" and trying to block out the same reality they're accusing the rest of us of lacking the moral courage to see correctly. They just won't listen to the counter evidence even when it's of the pragmatic sort, even when it is pointed out that some of the most evil organizations that have existed quit using torture to get information because other methods were more practical, NOT because they suddenly had a crisis of conscience but because they weren't concerned with being EVIL first and foremost -- they were concerned with getting RESULTS!

I gave you very nearly exactly what you asked for, it is not my fault you were never paying any attention to the parts of the comic that don't serve to reinforce and validate your particular --and might I add tiresome-- opinion on this matter. Which was completely beside the point, anyway. I was never defending the goblin race. I was talking about how most people don't murder. That doesn't have to be because goblins are all noble altruists. You can cheat, swindle, lie and backstab somebody --i.e. be evil-- without requiring the use of murder, and if goblins are usually weaker than human beings it makes sense that the smarter ones would simply try to avoid combat for the purpose of their own survival. Good doesn't have to mean dumb, I fail to see why evil should have to mean "suicidal."

Unless, of course, you really feel that a gag strip counters the many other examples.

Mm-hmm. Nice try.

I mean, I could talk about SoD, but what would be the point? You're not equipped to hear any answer that doesn't fit within your expected parameters.

[Selene]

Weren't the hobgoblins living more or less in peace before Xykon & RC got there? They had an army and were practicing drills, but we humans do that when we're not at war, too.

[Simanos]

With our GM if you did this you started to "see things" you should not, especially when sleeping. Think Cuthulu sanity checks and resulting reductions in wisdom. There is a reason why some things should not be permanent.

Some might think this harsh, especially considering that permanent spells are easy to remove. All the DM has to do is make sure your next encounter does a few targeted dispels. Also note that True Seeing isn't in the list of spells that can be made permanent so the DM has to allow it first.
See Invisible though is in that list and Xykon could have had that, but obviously he didn't.

[Heilyn]

Hey! My first post. Been a fan early, early on, before the comic even hit the hundreds. It didn't really occur to me to join the forum until today. I just got to say that people can complain about V's actions, but I'm just so happy that real action is happening again. I mean, we even got a chance to see our favorite Lich again after how long?!? At this point I'm just waiting for Roy to come back and watch awesomeness happen within the story.

[BlueWizard]

We want Roy! We want Roy! We want Roy! We want Roy!

[jere7my]

Try this for a more rational perspective. Unless, of course, you really feel that a gag strip counters the many other examples.

Urm...you're pointing to a hobgoblin army in the middle of a war as evidence that hobgoblins are innately murderous? Do you want to follow that line of thinking all the way to humans, or should I?

I would say Start of Darkness is our best evidence that hobgoblins aren't all vicious cutthroats. I'd go so far as to call it an explicit theme.