Damn, Xykon is smart as Fudge

[Chirios]

Seriously. For someone who doesn't like planning he really takes time out to protect himself and his facilities.

[liooil2000]

Hello, Redcloak?

[Ancalagon]

Xykon just does not like a certain level of planning and preparing. That does not mean he does not prepare to a certain level - and then stops because it simply does not matter anymore (in his opinion) to plan more.

But he's right: People underestimate him and think he is stupid because he does not care and does not *seem* to plan. He looks like a harmless, funny buffon (well, how kills a goblin here and there) but he's not that.

edit: Hehe, and yes, Redcloak is actually known to overplan things. ;)

[shadzar]

Yeah, just give Xykon an entertaining reason to do something (pies filled with acid spitting beetles thrown into peoples faces) and he will do it.

[Optimystik]

Yeah, just give Xykon an entertaining reason to do something (pies filled with acid spitting beetles thrown into peoples faces) and he will do it.

Technically, Redcloak did that...

Seriously. For someone who doesn't like planning he really takes time out to protect himself and his facilities.

If you mean the phylactery, that's one thing any lich would bend over backwards to protect. He doesn't have to be a tactical genius to know that warding it is a good idea, especially since he's already had to use it at least once.

[NerfTW]

Xykon has a short attention span, but he's not an idiot.

"I'm just going to fly in and blast high level spells until everyone dies" does not necessarily mean
"I'm so scatter brained I'm not going to make sure that my phylactery is protected from being dropped on a hard surface, especially since we already had a close call with it months ago."

Also, he's stated that he's been finding ways to amuse himself since he can only craft magical items for eight hours a day. Which means he probably just created protection spells out of boredom.

[shadzar]

Technically, Redcloak did that...

That was my point. RC can get Xykon to do things including planning when there is something in it for X.

[Optimystik]

That was my point. RC can get Xykon to do things including planning when there is something in it for X.

Oh, you meant the planning. I thought you meant the pie itself.

*whistles innocently*

[Silverraptor]

Please don't confuse not knowing with not caring!

[Dr.Desastro]

Sorry to mention this...can you be dumb AND an epic level spellcaster? Are there INT bonusses for being a lich? XP from years of evading death?
Maybe he has a small wisdom score? Or he is plain sadistic and likes his minions to despair. He does not live so maybe life (and all living creatures with their needs and thoughts) are a big joke for him. I wonder whether you get insane by becoming a lich...o.k., you had supremacy before...

[shadzar]

I wonder whether you get insane by becoming a lich...

I tried telling people in other places that yes you do, but they wish to ignore the 3.5 MM.

"As a rule, these creatures are scheming, and some say, insane."

[KingMerv00]

Sorry to mention this...can you be dumb AND an epic level spellcaster?

Liches get a +2 to Int. Not that it always matters. Bards, Clerics, Druids, Paladins, Rangers, and Sorcerers don't need intelligence to cast spells, epic or otherwise.

It would be pretty interesting to play an epic lich cleric with an intelligence of 5. :D

[Mystic Muse]

I tried telling people in other places that yes you do, but they wish to ignore the 3.5 MM.

"As a rule, these creatures are scheming, and some say, insane."

notice that fact that the only part that is an actual rule of that is the scheming. it says people SAY they're insane

sanity is relative anyway.

and I wasn't aware that fudge was smart.

[Holammer]

Sorry to mention this...can you be dumb AND an epic level spellcaster? Are there INT bonusses for being a lich? XP from years of evading death?
Maybe he has a small wisdom score? Or he is plain sadistic and likes his minions to despair. He does not live so maybe life (and all living creatures with their needs and thoughts) are a big joke for him. I wonder whether you get insane by becoming a lich...o.k., you had supremacy before...

When he became a Lich he had +2 to INT/WIS/CHA but he was never the sharpest knife in the drawer to begin with.
Intelligence is hardly important for sorcerers like Xykon. Short story, for game mechanics sorcerers rely on charisma for their spells.

This is covered in extensive detail in the Start of Darkness book.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Are there INT bonusses for being a lich?

Yes. It seemed rather noticeable when Xykon was lichified in Start of Darkness, too.

XP from years of evading death?

Only if the lich is a PC (NPCs don't typically track XP, just levelling up when the DM says so) and if all those years provided significant challenges to provide the XP.

Maybe he has a small wisdom score?

Actually, Xykon seems to have the "Street Smarts" and "Willpower" aspects of Wisdom in spades. It's his Wisdom that people really underestimate all the time.

Also: Wisdom and Charisma both get boosts from becoming a Lich as well.

Or he is plain sadistic and likes his minions to despair.

Uh… yeah. Exactly.

[bladesyz]

It's funny how people still think Xykon is dumb buffoon, and attributes all his successes to Redcloak, when the comic has demonstrated at every turn that Xykon is a lot smarter than people give him credit for.

Some people need to learn to look beyond the surface.

[Murdim]

Well, Xykon got +3 Int/Wis/Cha from aging, AND +2 Int/Wis/Cha for becoming a lich. That means his mental abilities are at least 5 points higher than they were in his youth. Even if he had 7 in Intelligence and Wisdom in first place, he would end up with 12 in these stats. 7 is more-or-less the minimum in a mental ability for a non-mentally-challenged character. 12 is above-average, and high enough to give actual bonuses.

[Kalbron]

I think possibly the main reason people struggle to understand Xykon is because his perception of time and reality have changed through his transition to unlife.

Sure, he may look like he's having fun all the time, but why not? Its not like he's going to die of natural causes at any point, so those days he spent dreaming up stupid & amusing tortures for O-Chul? In the scheme of things that's a pittance compared with how much time Xykon could "live" for.

[NerfTW]

Please don't confuse not knowing with not caring!

Exactly.

We've seen time and time again that Xykon is not an idiot, most importantly in the finale to Start of Darkness. I cannot fathom how anyone can still argue that he's stupid. It's like arguing that Belkar isn't evil. There might have been some doubt early on, but there are plenty of instances since that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's perfectly capable of planning things out.

[An Enemy Spy]

When you say Fudge, who do you mean? That guy from Harry Potter? He never seemed all that smart.

[charl]

When you say Fudge, who do you mean? That guy from Harry Potter? He never seemed all that smart.

It's a PG-13 euphemism for another word that begins with F and is four letters long and references the act of human mating.

[Prowl]

Good luck defining what 'sane' means to a lich.

[Rainbownaga]

Bards, Clerics, Druids, Paladins, Rangers, and Sorcerers don't need intelligence to cast spells, epic or otherwise.

Wouldn't the int bonus come in handy making those spellcraft checks for epic level spells.

Admittedly with the crazy dc's and the stuff that's come out of char.op, i doubt a couple of ability points are going to make much of a difference

[shadzar]

When you say Fudge, who do you mean? That guy from Harry Potter? He never seemed all that smart.

I think Cornelius Fudge and Xykon are close to the same competency level. For what that is worth.

[Chronos]

It's funny how people still think Xykon is dumb buffoon, and attributes all his successes to Redcloak, when the comic has demonstrated at every turn that Xykon is a lot smarter than people give him credit for.

Even granting that Xykon's no idiot, I do think that it's fair to say that Redcloak is smarter than him, and certainly wiser.

[bladesyz]

Even granting that Xykon's no idiot, I do think that it's fair to say that Redcloak is smarter than him, and certainly wiser.

Very doubtful, unless you're just talking about D&D stats. Redcloak acts more cautiously than Xykon, so he comes off as being smarter and wiser.

However, you forget that Redcloak is a magnitude weaker than Xykon. An epic lich has power to throw around that a teen-level cleric can only dream about. Xykon acts more rash and reckless because he's got the power, and the smarts, to back it up.

Case in point, almost everyone thought O-Chul was going to destroy Xykon's phylactery. No one thought that Xykon would have warded it with magic.

[wumpus]

I seem to remember that one of the critical parts of lichification is that you need to prepare a potion. You make it over a rather long time (standard Int buff spells aren't going to help), and make an Int check when you drink it. Make it and you're a lich. Fail and die.

I think these are TSR/WOTC rules, but am not certain. If Rich is "playing" with them, either X got lucky or could even do proper planing (and apply the needed buffs) before lichification

[David Argall]

almost everyone thought O-Chul was going to destroy Xykon's phylactery. No one thought that Xykon would have warded it with magic.

Almost everyone thought O-Chul was going to try to destroy the phylactery. But a fairly large number of us felt he was going to fail. Since this was based on the feeling it was the wrong time and the wrong character to be destroying the phylactery, we didn't bother with the exact details of how he would fail. And the text description of a phylactery implies strongly that it has magical protections.

[SadisticFishing]

I seem to remember that one of the critical parts of lichification is that you need to prepare a potion. You make it over a rather long time (standard Int buff spells aren't going to help), and make an Int check when you drink it. Make it and you're a lich. Fail and die.

I think these are TSR/WOTC rules, but am not certain. If Rich is "playing" with them, either X got lucky or could even do proper planing (and apply the needed buffs) before lichification

Not even a little bit in 3.5 :D

Xykon doesn't seem all that stupid, either. He's no wizard, but really, the difference between 14 int and 30 is that the 30 int character is better at math. 14 is enough to be extremely tactical.

[shadzar]

I seem to remember that one of the critical parts of lichification is that you need to prepare a potion. You make it over a rather long time (standard Int buff spells aren't going to help), and make an Int check when you drink it. Make it and you're a lich. Fail and die.

I think these are TSR/WOTC rules, but am not certain. If Rich is "playing" with them, either X got lucky or could even do proper planing (and apply the needed buffs) before lichification

I know the potion is mentioned in Van Richten's Guide to the Lich. Called the Potion of Transformation.