Project Half-Dwarf [3.5]

[Froogleyboy]

Ok, I was hanging out at the CSGS (PM me if you live in alabama nd wan't a place to hang out and play DND) and talking to my friend Spanky when I noticed that there were no Half-Dwarves. We each have our own city, and he has dwarves in his city. I asked him if I could mate with a dwarf to make some half-dwarves. He threatend to shoot fireballs at me and told me to stay away. So now I am going to take some workers from my city ,polymorph them to appear as dwarves, and send them to Spanky's city. Is there any way to make this plan better.

[Shpadoinkle]

Either derro or duergar are described as being half dwarf, half human. I forget, and I lent my books out so I can't look it up at the moment.

[RTGoodman]

Neither Derro nor Duergar are half-human, as far as I know. Derro are insane underground-dwelling dwarf-LIKE creatures, and Duergar are the Dwarf version of Drow.

Muls, on the other hand, half-dwarf half-human hybrids, were (and I guess still are) a major part of the Dark Sun campaign setting. You can find various homebrew versions online, but the official Dark Sun website nowadays is at Athas.org. I'm betting they've got a version floating around somewhere there.

[Gaiyamato]

Dwarves are a stable race and really only crossbreed with fey, celestials and fiends who basically crossbreed with anything anyway. lol.

The Darksun material is not fully 3.x compatible, though there was a darksun project for 3.0 online run by a third party.

I'd go with fey creatures. Nymphs would work well. :)

Alternatively you could use some mind flayers and using the template in the FF make Half Dwarf - Half Mind Flayers. Did that recently in my current campaign just for giggles. Half mind flayers wearing hats of disguise posing as members of the royal guard. lol.

[Worira]

Dwarf is a dominant gene. If a dwarf and a member of another race have a child, that child will be, without fail, a dwarf. Interestingly, the child of that child will also, without fail, be a dwarf.

To put it another way, if "DD" is the genotype of a dwarf, and "dd" is the genotype of a non-dwarf, then offspring of the F2 generation will have the genotype "DD". The "Dd" genotype does not exist.

[Froogleyboy]

Where , prey tell , Does it say that dwarf is a dominant trait

[herrhauptmann]

Arcanis has a race which is half-dwarf. However, their human/dwarf hybrid is called a gnome, and is the despised bastard child of the setting. -4 cha, -2 con, +2 wis, and they're universally reviled.

[The Mentalist]

Yet another reason to love Arcanis.

[Froogleyboy]

thx guys but I'm not asking for races. I'm asking for ways to make my plan better

[Atcote]

They should use beer scented perfumes and make their legs especially hairy, even if they're female. It also helps to suggest that they somehow use gold during copulation, and a battle-axe or pick, if that's what they're into.

[endoperez]

To put it another way, if "DD" is the genotype of a dwarf, and "dd" is the genotype of a non-dwarf, then offspring of the F2 generation will have the genotype "DD". The "Dd" genotype does not exist.

Genetics does not work that way. D+d=Dd. It could look like a dwarf, but second generation could produce non-dwarves (dd).

[raptor1056]

Dwarf is a dominant gene. If a dwarf and a member of another race have a child, that child will be, without fail, a dwarf. Interestingly, the child of that child will also, without fail, be a dwarf.

To put it another way, if "DD" is the genotype of a dwarf, and "dd" is the genotype of a non-dwarf, then offspring of the F2 generation will have the genotype "DD". The "Dd" genotype does not exist.

Wrong. The cross would look like this:
--D--D
d Dd Dd

d Dd Dd


Necessarily yielding ALL genotype Dd, unless the non-Dwarf mate has a D gene already, which you assume to be impossible. If this genotype does not exist, then dwarves are incapable of creating offspring with non-Dwarves, evidenced to be untrue by all of the MM1 half-X hybrids. Additionally, species is determined by a huge series of DNA coding as long as 15 BILLION base pairs or more. So determination of genetic traits is a little more complex than doing a single homozygous cross. Essentially, the compatibility of various genus in D&D is far too complex to determine with the information supplied in the rulebooks that I have seen. Whether or not a Half-Dwarf/ half-human can exist should probably just be houseruled in to best fit the campaign. Sorry if I come off as a bit condescending, it's just that I don't like people making various unsupported assumptions. Very unscientific, you know.

[Tsotha-lanti]

The Darksun material is not fully 3.x compatible, though there was a darksun project for 3.0 online run by a third party.

Say what? Athas.org is absolutely 3.5; download the PDFs and check it out for yourself.

Mul stats (revision 6 of the core PDF, doubt they've changed since):

• +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Cha
• Medium size
• Speed 30 ft.
• Darkvision
• Tireless (+4 to checks to perform physical actions over longer periods, like running & swimming, and +4 to saves against spells causing weakness, fatigue, exhaustion, or enfeeblement)
• Extended activity (can perform 12 hours of hard labor or forced march without fatigue)
• Dwarven Blood (considered a dwarf for effects and abilities)
• Nonlethal DR 1/-
• Favored Class: Gladiator
• Languages: Common; Bonus: Dwarven, Elven, Gith, Giant, Tarek
• LA +1

Dwarf is a dominant gene. If a dwarf and a member of another race have a child, that child will be, without fail, a dwarf. Interestingly, the child of that child will also, without fail, be a dwarf.

To put it another way, if "DD" is the genotype of a dwarf, and "dd" is the genotype of a non-dwarf, then offspring of the F2 generation will have the genotype "DD". The "Dd" genotype does not exist.

... I don't think that's how dominant genes work. Nevermind that there's no "race" gene - no single gene makes me a human instead of a chimp, or white instead of black, or whatever else - but the gene being dominant just means that it manifests if it's present on just one chromosome...

According to your logic, dwarves could reproduce with non-dwarves but would just keep producing dwarves.

[Worira]

Wrong. The cross would look like this:
--D--D
d Dd Dd

d Dd Dd


Necessarily yielding ALL genotype Dd, unless the non-Dwarf mate has a D gene already, which you assume to be impossible. If this genotype does not exist, then dwarves are incapable of creating offspring with non-Dwarves, evidenced to be untrue by all of the MM1 half-X hybrids.
Additionally, species is determined by a huge series of DNA coding as long as 15 BILLION base pairs or more. So determination of genetic traits is a little more complex than doing a single homozygous cross. Essentially, the compatibility of various genus in D&D is far too complex to determine with the information supplied in the rulebooks that I have seen. Whether or not a Half-Dwarf/ half-human can exist should probably just be houseruled in to best fit the campaign. Sorry if I come off as a bit condescending, it's just that I don't like people making various unsupported assumptions. Very unscientific, you know.

You'd think, yes. Sages are uncertain why this isn't the case with dwarves. Some speculate that when genetics was invented, all the dwarves' chromosomes were out drinking. Others believe that when a clean-shaven monk arrived at the dwarven halls to spread the word, he was severely beaten and hurled from a window by several voluminously-bearded fighters.

[raptor1056]

You'd think, yes. Sages are uncertain why this isn't the case with dwarves. Some speculate that when genetics was invented, all the dwarves' chromosomes were out drinking. Others believe that when a clean-shaven monk arrived at the dwarven halls to spread the word, he was severely beaten and hurled from a window by several voluminously-bearded fighters.

And, being a monk, he had to stand still in order to attack all of the dwarves that were surrounding him. Also, the stout fellows laughed at him when he talked about "wrinkled peas." (tee hee. Mildly phallic.)

[Human Paragon 3]

While you're polymorphing, might as well throw on a Eagle's Splendor for a cha boost.Couldn't hurt.

Make some of them wizards and cast Charm Person on your dwarfy conquests. If you have a real high level arcanist you can have them go in and dominate the dwarves.

This is despicable, by the way.

[Froogleyboy]

First off, how is it despicable? Second, I don't wana dominate people. The plan is long term. They are going to live in the city and find wives.

[ericgrau]

OP: "Friggin' party member telling me there can't be any half dwarves. Charles! Paul! I'm going to polymorph you into dwarves so you can go to the dwarven city and mate with dwarven women. Go prove him wrong.
Paul: "<Pbfffffft> (spits out coffee) Whaaat?"
Charles: "I hate being an NPC."
OP: "It's okay, you'll like it. You're gonna marry them and establish families and lives."
Paul: <falls over>

[Flickerdart]

Could you not PAO one of them into a Dwarf woman? Faster that way.

[kjones]

Book of Erotic Fantasy has general half-race rules.

EDIT: I misremembered. It doesn't.

Hackmaster has half-dwarves, I think...

[Tsotha-lanti]

Technically, if you polymorph someone into a dwarf, they should presumably have dwarven sex organs, chromosomes, etc.

The Book of Erotic Fantasy is mentioned, and I do believe this is precisely one of the things it addresses: how do pregnancy and polymorph interact?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Technically, if you polymorph someone into a dwarf, they should presumably have dwarven sex organs, chromosomes, etc.

The Book of Erotic Fantasy is mentioned, and I do believe this is precisely one of the things it addresses: how do pregnancy and polymorph interact?

Poorly, and why is that one of my most-referenced books?

A Polymorphed creature still has the same genetics as the original form, and will therefore produce children of their race+the race of the other parent. A creature gender-bent may, depending on DM, be able to have children, though anyone polymorphed who becomes pregnant must be very careful not to lose the Polymorph effect, or risk Con drain.

[Devils_Advocate]

First off, how is it despicable?

What, you don't think that marrying someone under false pretenses is a little morally dubious?

And it's not like they won't find out, either. You're planning on them producing weird halfbreed offspring. Presumably these children will be noticeably different from full dwarves, else what's the point? So, these couples will have halfbreed babies, and then the secretly human spouses will be like "Surprise! Our whole relationship is part of a crazy scheme to create a new hybrid race! Because half-elves and half-orcs apparently weren't enough."

That seems a tad... inconsiderate. Y'know?

[raptor1056]

I just realized the easiest possible way to create a half- dwarf. It involves a saw.

[Atcote]

What, you don't think that marrying someone under false pretenses is a little morally dubious?

And it's not like they won't find out, either. You're planning on them producing weird halfbreed offspring. Presumably these children will be noticeably different from full dwarves, else what's the point? So, these couples will have halfbreed babies, and then the secretly human spouses will be like "Surprise! Our whole relationship is part of a crazy scheme to create a new hybrid race! Because half-elves and half-orcs apparently weren't enough."

That seems a tad... inconsiderate. Y'know?

Surely the solution here is to only send really, really ugly humans to find really, really ugly dwarves, so, in the knowledge that they'll never find anyone who will legitimately love them, they can propogate out of chance and experimentation.

Yep, that's a totally considerate and non-morally dubious theory right there.

[IM@work]

Dwarf is a dominant gene. If a dwarf and a member of another race have a child, that child will be, without fail, a dwarf. Interestingly, the child of that child will also, without fail, be a dwarf.

To put it another way, if "DD" is the genotype of a dwarf, and "dd" is the genotype of a non-dwarf, then offspring of the F2 generation will have the genotype "DD". The "Dd" genotype does not exist.

Your misunderstanding of genetics is staggering.

Also, is there anywhere in 3.5 that shows how genetics and races work? If so I would like to know where that is; should be fun to see how babies is made in D+D.

[Coidzor]

Your misunderstanding of genetics is staggering.

Also, is there anywhere in 3.5 that shows how genetics and races work? If so I would like to know where that is; should be fun to see how babies is made in D+D.

I believe there's a couple of sources around... Book of Erotic Fantasy is 3.0, I think... Nymphology is 3.5 I think and Forbidden Tome of Carnal Knowledge(?) is a fan created web-based thing that's been circling the interwebs for awhile... and I can't remember whether it's 3.0 or 3.5 so I'll call it 3.X

There's also Bastards and Bloodlines which I think more operates as a splatbook for a whole menagerie of established hybrids more than offering rules about how hybrids are formed. Though I think it does go a little bit into it.

V: Who?

[Devils_Advocate]

Wait, is anyone actually taking Worira seriously?

It's called a joke, people! You know, kidding around? Heard of it?