Skaven as player race

[nathkry]

yes i know that i am making a race based off of warhammer (fantasy)

this is what i could think of

+2 dex, -2 str, -2 cha
60 ft. darkvision
bite atk 1d3
+4 hide, climb, move silently
spd 30 ft.
weapon familiarity: shuriken
a skaven with leadership counts other skaven as 1 lvl lower for follower purposes (min. 1)
small size
favored class: rogue
Automatic languages: common, undercommon Bonus languages: goblin, draconic, terran, dwarven, elven (drow dialect)

[The_Werebear]

You could just pull the hybrid stats for a wererat out of the MM.

[Truwar]

Sounds resoanble to me... Not sure if I would want to give up 2 points of charisma for a bite attack, but I guess the skill bonuses and movement bonus balances things up a bit...

[DragonWatcher]

A couple of things...

Most small races have a base move of 20 feet, what justifies the skaven being a small race with a move of 30 feet? I would personally either make them medium (first option, since skaven were supposed to be man-sized), or drop the movement to 20 feet.

Also, skaven have a history of using diseases as weapons. I would give them a +2 racial bonus to all saving throws made to resist diseases (including magical disease).

Also, I don't understand why you give them draconic as a bonus language. The Skaven might live underground, but they never had a history of dealing with dragons.

Anyhow, just a few thoughts. Good luck. :)

[Mephibosheth]

It’s been a while since I’ve done any work with Warhammer, but from what I remember, the Skaven were big into crazy technology (disease warfare, poisons, warpfire throwers, etc), degenerative magic, surprise tactics, and massed ranks of mediocre soldiers who are weak and skittish on their own and fanatical in large groups. Skaven go down pretty easy, but they just keep coming, overwhelming foes with numbers and weakening them with poison, diseases, and warped magic. They’re also roundly despised by non-skaven. Thus, I would say that their racial characteristics should reflect this somewhat twisted cunning and unreliability. I’d make them something more like this:

+2 dex, -2 con
Medium size
Base speed – 30 ft
Darkvision – 60 ft
+1 bonus on attack rolls with thrown weapons
Skills: +2 on craft (alchemy) checks, +2 on craft (weapons) checks, -2 on diplomacy checks
Saves: +2 racial bonus to resist the effects of diseases, -2 against fear effects
Favored Class: rogue
Languages: Automatic – common, skaven Bonus Languages – goblin, undercommon, terran, dwarven, drow

I don’t quite understand why you’ve given them bonuses to move silently and climb. From what I remember, their unobtrusiveness came more from their marginal status than their ability to hide. I also don’t get the weapon familiarity with shuriken, the bite attack, and the leadership modifiers, but again, I may just be behind the times.

Hope that helps,

Mephibosheth

[The_Werebear]

The leadership bonuses may be from the fact that they amass in crowds rather than go it alone.

[Sacrath]

The hard part isn't making the race, the hard part is assigning costs to those warpfire throwers and warpstone grenades they use. At least when I used them it was. I just used wererat stats, changed the DR to cold iron.

[SpiderBrigade]

I'd say for the racial stats just use the rules for Nezumi from OA/Rokugan. They're fast-moving, medium-size, and do get the poison/disease resistances and fairly similar skill bonuses.

The equipment/swarm tactics stuff is all setting flavor. In particular I don't think you need rules to make hiring extra Skaven followers easier. If you're making Skaven NPCs, just give them minions. If you have a party of Skaven PCs, you're on your way to a good-sized swarm already. If anything, just give them Leadership as a bonus feat, but only for other Skaven. If you have one Skaven PC in a party of non-Skaven...well that's a little weird, since hardly anyone can really stand Skaven ;-)

[Ikkitosen]

I'd be inclined to the following:

+2 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Cha
Medium
Speed 40 feet
60 feet darkvision
Bite Attack for 1D3
+2 to Craft: Alchemy checks, don't need to be a spellcaster to use this skill
Favoured class: Rogue

Can take a feat to represent their prehensile tails, allowing them to wield an extra weapon. Or maybe give them this for free and a +1 LA. This last is a balance issue, so maybe needs some playtesting.

[Norhg]

A couple of things...

Most small races have a base move of 20 feet

Correction. All Small Player Character Races Have 20ft Base Movement.

Goblins and kobolds both move at 30ft.

[CaptN]

Skaven are also discribed as too having a burning hunger that drives them to eat nearly three times their weight every two days or something like that. They also have an ultra short life span...15 years at the most.

One last thing, shouldn't they have an effinity for small and dire rats as well?

[richelieu]

I think Skaven should also get a level adjustment, mostly because I think they should get stats of

+2 DEX, +2 CON, -2 WIS, -2 CHA

The bonus to dex is obvious, and the reason why has been mentioned. But the bonus to Con should be there because they are constantly exposed to disease and poison: the Skaven live in such a filthy environment that the sickly just couldn't make it.
Also, they should be Medium cretures. They're at least as tall as Dwarfs when you look at the models. Some, like the Stormvermin, are fully the height of humans or Elves.

[LE4dGOLEM]

not constitution -- +2 saves against poison and diseases (maybe immunity at higher levels), remebering that constitution affects things like insta-kill hits of 50hp or more in one go...

[Belkarseviltwin]

I think Skaven should also get a level adjustment, mostly because I think they should get stats of

+2 DEX, +2 CON, -2 WIS, -2 CHA

The bonus to dex is obvious, and the reason why has been mentioned. But the bonus to Con should be there because they are constantly exposed to disease and poison: the Skaven live in such a filthy environment that the sickly just couldn't make it.
Also, they should be Medium cretures. They're at least as tall as Dwarfs when you look at the models. Some, like the Stormvermin, are fully the height of humans or Elves.

I wouldn't give them the Wis penalty- rats have good senses, and I'm calling the Grey Seers Clerics. Get rid of the Con bonus to balance that out- Skaven can't really take a punch.
I agree that they should be Medium- they only look small because they're hunched over.
A natural attack isn't necessary.

I also might make up some "fur colour" feats like the Warforged body feats. Black Skaven are generally larger and usually join the Stormvermin (with the result that most warlords have black fur), grey ones become grey seers.

Thus:
Black Fur
Prerequisites: Skaven, one physical stat at 15+, must be taken at first level.
Effect: You add Fighter to your list of Favoured Classes. You may pick a feat from the Fighter list as a bonus feat.

Grey Fur
Prerequisites: Skaven, Cleric, Wis 15+, must be taken at first level
You may rebuke rats (including rat swarms and Dire Rats) in the same way as undead. You add +1 to the save DCs of your Domain Spells.

Black Fur's gaining a bonus feat may look a bit problematic, but its other benefit (an extra Favoured Class) isn't too big, and the prerequisites stop it being abused.

[Karu]

The Ratmens from Sword and Sorcery's "Creature Collection"

[BelkarsDagger]

Wow... this is a baaaaad case of Thread Necromancy.

[Ted_Stryker]

The Ratmens from Sword and Sorcery's "Creature Collection"

Vigil Watch: Warrens of the Ratmen is an entire (soft-cover) book devoted to the slitheren, as they are called in Sword & Sorcery. Includes "storm vermin" of different clans and "rat ogres." Nothing on warpfire/warpstone as such, and not too much on Skaven-like technology. I guess S&S couldn't be that obvious about it. ;D

Personally, I'm in the +1 LA camp for Skaven. I'd actually give them +4 DEX and -2 CHA, and speed 40 ft. for Medium size. GM's call as to whether they should have +1 natural armor or not. Immunity to disease probably should go in there, too.

[Ted_Stryker]

I just looked up the Ratman template from the S&S book, and they gave them +6 CON (!!) in addition to the other stat alterations I suggested, in a +1 LA template. That seems a little excessive.

[fireinthedust]

just thinking of the slitherin (and I have the warrens book!)

I think they get the 0la mod for race because of their persecution of the surface of scarn... although the numbers are completely unbalanced compared to ther races. Who knows, maybe they just want pople to play them? the original non-wizards prodct, the community back then may not have had as good a concept of game balance (hey, it was just after 2nd edition, give them some slack!!!) ;)

the +6 is also likely for being so covered in filth all the time, like the dwarves in the coal mines underground with their +2 mod.

who knows.