[3.5] Warlock help! (Or making Warlock at least Tier 3 in power)

[ErrantX]

In my current campaign, I've got a problem with one of my PC's class selection. He's just not strong enough to keep up with the rest of the party. He's playing a Rogue 1 / Warlock 2 / Swordsage 2 / Daggerspell Mage 7 (I'm allowing Daggerspell Mage to improve his maneuvers on each even level), but he's still falling behind in power due entirely to his warlock levels. He's using Swordsage stuff for Shadow Hand primarily and he's trying to play his to his character's strengths as a flanker and damage dealer combined Hideous Blow and Sneak Attack damage. But he's so far behind compared to the rest of the group, listed below:

Human diviner 3 / druid 3 / spelldancer 2 / prestige bard 2 / Fochlucan Lyrist 2
Kalashtar crusader 4 / cleric 2 / Ruby Knight Vindicator 7(refluffed and worked to the Silver Flame)
Hellbred warblade 5 / Eternal Blade 7 (was formerly an elf)
Human conjurer 4 / artificer 1 / ultimate magus 7 (I'm letting artificer count)
Half-elf ranger 5 / revenant blade 5 / dervish 2

As you can see, the group is fairly heavily optimized or at the very least, using better classes in most situations.

What can I do to improve my Warlock? Give him more invocations? Improve Eldritch Blast damage? Both? He's planning on getting 3 levels of hellfire warlock in there as well, but I need to help improve him to keep up with the rest.

-X

[DownwardSpiral]

What is he trying to accomplish with those warlock levels? a hideous blow at that level is what, an extra d6? Let him retrain it to more swordsage. The extra 2 levels gives a higher maneuver level, and is much better than the d6.


Also, I can't remember if there are any real requirements for Craven, but an extra +CL level damage for sneak attacks should help with the damage a bit. Especcially if he's going for flanking all the time.


Arg, I keep forgetting thing and adding more stuff to this post, I'm sorry. ANYWAY. If he wants to keep warlock, you should probably make him fit a level of binder in their for the negation of the con damage. I'm pretty sure the rest of the people in the party won't like preparing a bunch of restore abilites to offset the hellfire damage.

[Southern Cross]

Can your character take levels in the eldritch theurge prestige class?That would improve both his warlock abilities and spellcasting ability.

[Fizban]

I'm guessing he's letting it progress warlock in place of spellcasting, and also adding some extra manuevers on top of that.

It looks like the rest of the party is either full powered martial adepts, or dual caster/martial or other caster. The warlock is dual caster/martial, except his caster isn't actually a caster, so he's really just half martial.

Daggerspell mage really doesn't have anything that great in it for a warlock at all. He's also using a TWF class with a single attack strategy (hideous blow).

I really don't think it can be salvaged by anything except retraining the whole thing into swordsage, but here's my suggestion: Assuming I'm right about progressing warlock and sworsage both with the daggerspell mage, he's basically pulling a 3 part build: caster, sneak attack, and martial adept. Since none of those 3 can stand on their own with that much dilution. This means he has to make all their abilities count at once.

He needs to at least get his damage up to a normal TWF rogue rate, so that means we need at least 1d6/2 levels on both weapons. Stacking his EB and SA damage would work, but he only has one attack with hideous blow, and you can't TWF with eldritch glave. He also has to be able to use it with his manuevers, so the only choice is to make it a swift or move action that applies to all his attacks for the round. Normally this might be to much, be he really needs it.

After that, he needs to select Tiger Claw maneuvers to make the most out of his dual weapons. Now he can use EB damage as with a full attack or TWF maneuver. If he gets his sneak attack on, he'll be roughly the equivalent of a TWF rogue with a few manuevers.

Edit: as I pop over to homebrew, I notice something I forgot on the front page: Daggerspell Invoker homebrew. Might try using that instead. Assuming a standard build of rogue 1/warlock 5/DI X, he'd have nearly full invoking. Next level he'd get the eldritch infusion, and between that and his sneak attack, he'd only be one or two dice behind normal TWF rogue, with the benefit that some of it works on non-SA-ables, and he could add an essence to provoke a save or suck on every attack. For manuevers, he could use the rest of his feats to get Martial Study a few times. The character would be a lot more focused on invoking, but at least he'd have a focus.

Again, the main problem with his build is that it's using two abilities (invoking and sneak attack) that can only compete at full power, at half power. You need your full sneak attack in a TWF routine, or your full eldritch blast with Eldritch Glaive, to get close to par on optimized builds. If he was split half rogue/half warlock, he could make a sneak attacking eldritch glave to almost keep up with either on their own, but with the swordsage he's not strong enough to make it work. He needs to either focus on swordsage exclusively, or find a way to get more than half sneak attack and EB at the same time on all his attacks. The only way to do the "one big attack" is with an ubercharger or a martial adept, sneak attack and eldritch blast can only compare when used on every hit of a full attack.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Are you using fractional BAB for this game, or is he not even hitting on most of his attacks?

Hideous Blow is a standard action to use, so he can only attack 1/round with it no matter what he does.

I would consider doing three things with this character:
1. Explain to him that Hideous Blow is a standard action and it cannot be combined with a full attack, that his idea to use it to boost his damage is inherently flawed, and that he should replace Warlock with a decent spellcasting class like Wizard. Chill Touch is a superb spell to combine with a full attack, or (Lesser) Shivering Touch if you want the character to be insanely overpowered.

Replace Rogue with Spellthief, and make sure he gets the feat Master Spellthief in Complete Scoundrel. Depending on how you interpret it, he could add all of his levels except Swordsage to determine his caster level for all of his spellcasting classes. That puts his caster level only two points behind his character level, which can easily be made up for with Practiced Spellcaster. If he chooses to replace Warlock with Wizard he could freely cast spells in light armor with this.

2. Failing that, let him replace Warlock with more Swordsage, and switch to the Arcane Swordsage variant on page 20 of ToB, under the Adaptation heading. Be warned, Arcane Swordsage is considered to be very overpowered, but keep in mind that he cannot have the same maneuver/spell readied more than once. In this case, he should go Rogue (or Spellthief) 1/ Swordsage 4/ Daggerspell Mage, with his Daggerspell Mage spellcasting added to Swordsage. He should combine a good mix of buffing, protective, and offensive touch spells with his maneuvers. Swift spells like Wraithstrike and Bladeweave are particularly good, and spells he would want to be able to cast every fight such as Whirling Blade and Disintegrate are also decent choices. Just being able to use (Draconic) Polymorph and Greater Dispel Magic a nigh-infinite number of times/day is enough to consider any character powerful.

3. This can be combined with either of the above if you don't think he has enough of an edge. Give him an Outsider race for free (no more than +1 LA), such as Tiefling, Aasimar, or one of the Planetouched in MM2. Make sure he gets Polymorph, and he can take the form of a Kelvezu demon from MM2. That will give him +8d6 Sneak Attack and a Con damage poison that's automatically delivered with each weapon attack, in addition to amazing physical ability scores and natural armor. This would make any character extremely powerful, and may be just what he needs to keep up judging by the rest of the party. If he uses this with Arcane Swordsage you may be back next week to ask how the rest of the party can keep up with him.

[Viv]

First, if he wants melee blasting, trade Hideous Blow for Eldrich Glaive (Dragon Magic page 82).

This shape:
(1) Allows you to get multiple attacks from BAB.
(2) Lasts until the start of the next round, giving you the benefit of attacks of opportunity.
(3) Gives you reach.
(4) Is a touch attack.

It doesn't let you use TWF, but then, neither does Hideous Blow. What's not to like?

[JeminiZero]

Drop Rogue entirely. Switch Hideous Blows to Eldritch Glaive as mentioned above. Let him qualify for Jade Phoenix Mage using Warlock Invocations (1 least invocation with equivalent spell level 2 or higher should do).

Finally let him apply maneuvers when using Eldritch Glaive. (E.g. Times Stand Still lets him make 2x full attacks. Desert Wind burning blade adds fire damage to his eldritch glaive etc). Forget Hellfire Warlock entirely, go with JPM all the way.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Warlock9/Hellfire Warlock3 all the way. With Hellfire shield, Karmic Strike and Robiliar's Gambit (later on), people will be afraid to hit you.

Be sure to pick up either Shape Soulmeld: Strongheart Vest to give yoruself Dr1 to ability damage, or, if that is ruled to not work with warlock, the Bind Vestige feat to gain fast healing 1 for ability scores.

[Zephyros]

How is that former elf and now hellbred become Eternal Blade at 5 level?

(nitpicking I know )