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2009-06-15, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- The Land of Cleves
- Gender
Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
I'm sort of making a Binder/KotSS (Tome of Magic) character, and I noticed something annoying about the prerequisites. KotSS is clearly a melee-type, with full BAB and proficiency in martial weapons. One of the prereqs, though, is Weapon Focus, and Binder only gives proficiency in simple weapons. And proficiency in the weapon is a prereq for Weapon Focus.
So it looks like a KotSS has the following choices:
1: Dip a level in Fighter or some other martial class to gain weapon proficiencies. But this means losing a level of binding progression.
2: Take Weapon Focus in a simple weapon like spear or heavy mace that the Binder is proficient in. But this means either giving up the benefit of Weapon Focus once you become a Knight, or giving up the benefit of using a martial weapon rather than a simple one.
3: Taking a weapon proficiency feat as a Binder for some better weapon. But this is even more of a waste than 2, since once you take your first level in Knight of the Sacred Seal, you get all martial weapons for free, so you're throwing away a feat.
4: Using the weapon proficiency granted by a vestige like Leraje or Haagenti to qualify for Weapon Focus in something like composite longbow or greataxe. This avoids all the problems above, and is (I think) technically RAW-legal, but it runs the risk of taking 1d4 bludgeoning damage from a DMG to the head.
None of these options seem to really be all that good. Are there any better ways?Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2009-06-15, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
Get a race that starts with weapon proficiency, like Elf.
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2009-06-15, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
Dip Cloistered Cleric and go for a god with the War domain.
Also gets you Knowledge Devotion and one other domain.Last edited by Pharaoh's Fist; 2009-06-15 at 12:11 PM.
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2009-06-15, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- The Land of Cleves
- Gender
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
Get a race that starts with weapon proficiency, like Elf.
Dip Cloistered Cleric and go for a god with the War domain.
Also gets you Knowledge Devotion and one other domain.Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2009-06-15, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Gender
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
Ask your DM if retraining Weapon Focus to something Martial at a later point is a feasible choice. Or better yet, ask about that Weapon Grouping variant in the SRD, where such feats can be taken for broad categories of weapons such as "axes", "swords", "polearms" and the like - then you can move up to Martial weapons of that type when you take the KotSS levels.
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2009-06-15, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
Use the heroics spell from the spell compendium. It gives you a temporary fighter feat. Take exotic weapon proficiency in something.
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2009-06-15, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Washington, DC
- Gender
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
Take a level of Warblade and gain Weapon Aptitude, which lets you re-focus any weapon specific feat. Also grants a Stance and 3 manuevers.
Or be a race that offers martial weapon proficiency in something useful.
Or take Exotic Weapon Prof in something useful.
Or take a feat that requires a simple weapon Weapon Focus, such as Three Mountains.
Or take a feat that requires a simple weapon Weapon Focus, but use and Aptitude weapon to use a strong weapon. Lightning Maces comes to mind.
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2009-06-15, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- Tallahassee, Florida
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
Take a level in fighter.
Take a level in KotSS.
Retrain fighter level to binder.
You will still meet the prereqs, provided you didn't use the fighter bonus feat to meet the prereqs. KotSS will then provide the prereq for the Weapon Focus (so you can still use it), which meets the prereq for KoTSS.The easy I do before breakfast,
The difficult I do all day long,
The impossible achieved during the workweek,
Miracles performed when possible.
People call me the Fixer,
and I am here to help you.Spoiler
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Fixer's Fighter Fix
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2009-06-15, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Texas...for now
- Gender
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
Convince a DM to rule that a Warblade's Weapon Aptitude should have been the default for any full-BAB class from the begining?
[/sarcasm]
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I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-06-15, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
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2009-06-15, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
The answer to most of these questions is "be a neraph."
They're literally the best race ever for a gish class. They get free martial weapon proficiency, which auto-qualifies them for cool stuff like Abjurant Champion, Eldritch Knight, Spellsword (I think), and they're outsiders, which is sexy as heck for Metamorphic Transfer BS.
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2009-06-15, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
- Location
- England
- Gender
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
Your best bet is probably taking Weapon Focus for a simple weapon and retraining later.
IIRC you can take the feat for Touch attacks, which I think some of the Binder powers use. If I'm correct that could be an option.Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
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2009-06-15, 01:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
- Location
- Broken Damaged Worthless
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
Also, they're awesome looking and get a cool as hell racial trick.
However, you are incorrect. They do not get automatic proficiency. They can merely treat the annulat as a martial weapon rather than an exotic.
Unless of course you are talking about some other race called "Neraphim", commonly shortened (even by the race themselves) to "neraph".
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2009-06-15, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Location
- Some kind of hell
- Gender
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
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2009-06-15, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
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2009-06-15, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Gender
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
Planar Handbook.
They're a lot of fun. My second character was a Neraph Barbarian.
Not needing sleep was awesome.
EDIT:
Also, losing one level of Binder is not the massive, "OMG, I'M GONNA SUCK!" that you seem to think it is. (Or that it can be for other spellcasters.)
Also, um... what's the problem here? You just need Weapon Focus(any weapon).
Ask your DM about option 4 first. I can't remember where, but it is an allowable use of the rules by RAW(but not core RAW, so ask.).
If it doesn't work, a level of Fighter is your best bet. Take Weapon Focus(whatever you want) as your bonus feat.
If the loss of a single level of Binder pains you THAT much, you can take: Improved Binding, for an effictive +2 to your EBL for determining your highest level vestige. (Useless above EBL 17)
Or you can take Skilled Pact Making, giving +4 to all Bind Checks. (to offset the loss of one point of soulbinding.)
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2009-06-15, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Washington, DC
- Gender
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
Here's there full stats, courtesy of WotC. Other strong but often overlooked racial choices for a melee character include Dragonborn (wings), Earth Dwarf (+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Cha, dwarvern characteristics), Elan (can spend power points to decrease damage or increase Saves), and Mongrelfolk (+4 Con ,-2 Int, -4 Cha).
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2009-06-15, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
There is also wieldskill in PgTF. Its a level 1 spell that gives you proficiency with any single weapon or armor as if you had the proper feat.
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2009-06-15, 06:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
I vote for either Weapon Focus (Touch) or taking an exotic weapon...
Aside from that, the Morning Star is a simple weapon that doesn't totally suck.Last edited by Thurbane; 2009-06-15 at 06:21 PM.
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2009-06-15, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- The Land of Cleves
- Gender
Re: Qualifying for Knight of the Sacred Seal
There is no DM involved here; I'm just creating a character for the heck of it.
Neraph wouldn't work, since they have to be chaotic, and Knights of the Sacred Seal can't be chaotic. For the record, by the way, "neraph" isn't short for "neraphim"; it's the singular form. One neraph, two neraphim.
On the subject of races in general, binders benefit from a good Charisma, so Elan, assorted dwarves, and Mongrelfolk might not be the best choices.
If the loss of a single level of Binder pains you THAT much, you can take: Improved Binding, for an effictive +2 to your EBL for determining your highest level vestige. (Useless above EBL 17)
Or you can take Skilled Pact Making, giving +4 to all Bind Checks. (to offset the loss of one point of soulbinding.)
Weapon focus (touch attacks) and Exotic Weapon Proficiency both look reasonable, though. The old Lightning Maces/Aptitude kukris trick is a classic, too, but probably a bit feat-intensive for the build I have in mind.Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics