Duskblade help

[nysisobli]

I was trying to make a pally, but my dm approved the duskblade. Im starting at level 1 any good tips

[Flickerdart]

3.5, I assume.

Paladins are not exactly a strong class even without the -4, and improvised weapons are awful weapons on their own right. You'll be better off with a different class and just call yourself a Paladin. Something like the Duskblade, who can channel spells through his attacks and make the actual weapon matter less, or the Crusader from Tome of Battle.

[nysisobli]

i guess, but i kinda like the paladin =) lol although i dont think my dm would allow duskblade

[Tsotha-lanti]

Ask your DM to let you take a "homebrew" Improvised Weapon Proficiency feat that removes the penalty. It's still shooting your own leg, but there you go.

[holywhippet]

Ask the DM if he will allow you to spend a feat giving you proficiency in improvised weapons. Maybe roll a D4 or a D2 to work out what, if any, penalty will be applied.

What exactly are you aiming for with your improvised weapons? Just grabbing whatever is closest and being swinging? Maybe you could spend some points in craft: weaponsmithing and modify your weapons in advance. eg. turning a table leg into an improvised club or a wood cutting axe into something more suitable for combat.

[nysisobli]

things like smite evil with a barstool lol

[Devils_Advocate]

I think a Lawful Good Crusader is basically a Paladin with different mechanics.

The Drunken Master PrC gets some special abilities with improvised weapons, but even it doesn't remove the attack penalty. I don't think that anything does that.

They're improvised weapons, after all. They're relatively hard to use as weapons next to objects specifically designed to be used as weapons.

[Darrin]

The Drunken Master PrC gets some special abilities with improvised weapons, but even it doesn't remove the attack penalty. I don't think that anything does that.

Hulking Hurler reduces the improvised penalty to -2. The City Brawler variant of the Barbarian (Dragon #349) also does this, but would be incompatible with a LG paladin.

The only way to get rid of the improvised penalty completely is a 3.0 PrC in Dragon #295, the Brawler. A one-level dip removes the -4 penalty. There's a nice little perk if you pick up another level of Brawler... you can use Weapon Focus, Improved Crit, and other weapon-based feats with improvised weapons. In the same article, there's also a general feat, "Improvised Weapon" that can be taken by anyone to reduce the improvised penalty to -2.

Brawler isn't all that easy to qualify for, though... BAB +7, Intimidate 5 (cross-class for a Paladin), and three feats: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, and Improved Unarmed Strike (two of these being nearly useless). Paladins don't get a lot of feats, although the Holy Warrior variant in CompChamp might help a little there (sacrifice spellcasting for bonus feats). A dip into Battle Dancer (Dragon Compendium) might help with the Unarmed Strike, although I'm still not sure where you'd want to pick up Intimidate as a class skill... might just have to do it cross-class all the way.

[AslanCross]

Honestly, I'd just pick existing weapons and call them something else. I once had an artificer who would be carrying a giant wrench and using that as a heavy mace. You could just use a greatclub and call it a barstool. If it's your background anyway, I'd say that you've become good enough at fighting with those kinds of weapons for you to not suck at them.

An LG Crusader would be practically the same as a paladin too.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Clubs and Quarterstaves are free to craft(takes 0 seconds, 0 CP, and 0 skill ranks). Whenever you enter combat, craft one or the other, and fluff it as 'picking up X'.

Warning: Side effects may include flung DMGs and an increased desire to break the game. Do not combine with canyons, flight above enemies, or lines of commoners. Always consult your DM before crafting infinite Quarterstaves.

[raptor1056]

Clubs and Quarterstaves are free to craft(takes 0 seconds, 0 CP, and 0 skill ranks). Whenever you enter combat, craft one or the other, and fluff it as 'picking up X'.

Warning: Side effects may include flung DMGs and an increased desire to break the game. Do not combine with canyons, flight above enemies, or lines of commoners. Always consult your DM before crafting infinite Quarterstaves.

One of my players once attempted to fill a ditch with a bajillion quarterstaves to save his Flight spell for later. I allowed him to, but decided that since each of the quarterstaves was being created as soon as the last was done, ie 0 seconds later, and was thus created in exactly the same place as the last one, the effect of a ton of overlapping matter in a small amount of space caused a forceful expulsion of all of the staves of such a degree that it caused a new big bang which instantly created a new universe exactly like the old one one, except that a certain inhabitant had gone from 18 intelligence to 4.

Do not question my astrophysics. I'm DM, it's my universe, and I will spit in the face of Stephen Hawking as I damn well please. Meh.

[nysisobli]

this was on the second page, changed my title so i thought i would bump it

[Korivan]

www.brilliantgameologists.com
go to duskblades handbook, though id go for a scyth weapon and modify it with the lamenating and serrated qualities from the AEG-mercinaries handbook

[nysisobli]

i didn't really find that handbook to be much help, i wanted someone who has played a duskblade before.

[AslanCross]

Shocking Grasp is a good spell choice, since it gives you high damage output early and works really well against foes wearing metal armor. Since it's a first level spell, you can use it more times per day.

Ray of Enfeeblement gives you more battlefield control and allows you to debuff enemy bruisers so you can concentrate on the softer targets.

It's typically a good idea to go with a two-handed weapon (since you don't get the Heavy Shield usage ability until later). It also fits the typical role of the Duskblade as a striker/damage dealer. If you're willing to burn a feat to take EWP: Spiked Chain, you can get some pretty nasty damage due to your reach.

At later levels (when Lv 3 spells are available), you can take the Arcane Strike feat to get more mileage out of your non-damage dealing spells. This is called "going nova"---burning through your resources faster than usual and frying enemies faster. It's one thing the Duskblade does really well.

[thorgrim29]

Duskblade hey? Good choice. They're very fun to play from the getgo, and start coming into their own around level 6 or so I'd say.

tip 1: use a two handed weapon
tip 2: Get power attack, maybe cleave if your dm likes to throw mooks at you

Level one spells: only one spell here is worth mentioning, the others are pretty cool, but only True Strike (tm) will be useful until level 20+

So what you do is fight mostly with your weapons, magic if necessary, and try to find the toughest nut to crack. Then you whack at it with two handed always hitting power attacks until it drops (should be pretty quick).

Rays are also cool, remember that arcane channeling works for rays, so if you're running low on level 1 spells, use a ray instead (also, the spell that teleports the other guy is awesome)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Pick up Combat Reflexes early on and use a two-handed reach weapon, wear armor spikes so you'll still threaten adjacent squares. Power Attack is absolutely necessary for just about any melee damage dealer. Definitely get Arcane Strike from Complete Warrior at level 9, for dealing damage you'll probably be better off using your spell slots for that than for casting spells.

Rays are also cool, remember that arcane channeling works for rays, so if you're running low on level 1 spells, use a ray instead (also, the spell that teleports the other guy is awesome)

This is absolutely incorrect. A 'ray spell' is an 'effect: ray' spell, it is not a 'touch spell' because it is not a 'range: touch' spell. It is only range: touch that causes a spell to be considered a touch spell, there are no other or alternate qualifying conditions. The mechanics of being delivered via a touch attack has nothing to do with it, regardless of whether it's a melee or ranged touch attack. A Cure spell delivered to a friendly target is a touch spell because of its range: touch, even though no touch attack roll was even made, because the type of attack roll has absolutely nothing to do with it. The touch attack mechanic is not what causes a spell to be considered a touch spell, having a range of touch is the only consideration when determining whether or not it's a touch spell. You cannot hold the charge on a ray, and you cannot use Arcane Channeling with a ray, because a ray is not a 'touch spell' just like catchup is not mustard.

[Wagadodo]

I would consider a high critical range weapon if playing a duskblade, specially a two handed one. Most of your damage is coming from spells so you might as well get the double damage from the critical on the spells two. And Power attack with True Strike is just deadly at later levels. At level 10 being able to do 20 points of non rolled damaged by doing a full power attack, not includeding any strength bonus.

And if you do have another front line fighter type you might consider getting a reach weapon. Now there is some shock from behind the fighter. Keeps your slightly more squishy form out of the way of the heavy hitters.

The only must have feat for the duskblade is Power Attack, every thing else is just how you want to play it. Do you want to do a range guy with all the ray spells, point blank shot and precise shot.

As everyone else has said a very fun class to play, you can take out one big guy in a couple of swings if you are geared right.

[Darkfire]

Not quite Wagadodo:

If a duskblade scores a critical hit when channeling a spell through a melee attack, is the spell’s damage multiplied just like the weapon’s?
The rules aren’t as clear as they could be, but the Sage is inclined to say no. Here’s the key sentence, from the PHB II, page 20: “If the attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved.”
If you score a critical hit, the attack deals the normal (critical) damage. Then the spell resolves normally, but it’s just a rider effect applied due to the successful attack roll—you’re not actually using the spell in the normal manner, so it can’t score a critical hit.

FAQ can be found here (wizards.com).

[Wagadodo]

That does not make any sense at all. You can score a critical hit on a touch spell, you can score a critical on a weapon, but you can't score a critical on both at the same time? Ugh, I still allow criticals when I run so the OP should ask the DM.

*Thinks about the logic.* Here I stuck this piece of steel with electricity through your gut, but the electricty does not hurt more just because it is cooking you from the inside out.

I would still consider the high crit weapon just because of the power attack double on the attack. Unless there is a rule that doesn't allow that either.

[woodenbandman]

For a duskblade, you'll want to cut out of the class at 13th level, generally speaking, because full attack channeling is the shizz. Some options for moving on include:

Psychic Warrior2/Warmind5, for Sweeping strike at 20th level and getting sweet 2 touch spells/1 attack return. Wisdom helps, and you can get expansion.

Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion +5, for cool points, high level spells channeled through your sword, and that bard song thing that increases your caster level. Requires quite a high charisma, but fortunately allows you to ditch your int at 14 points (you don't need save DCs or bonus spells at all).

Mage of the Arcane Order X, for spellpool which means you can take any 6th level or lower spell from the PHB (Bestow Curse, anyone?) and hit people with it a few times per day.

[Blackfang108]

Once you get 4th level spells, take Enervation. Negative levels are a REALLY useful debuff.

Also: Make sure you read the rules for casting Definsively, and pump your Concentration skill. Get it up there and you won't have to worry about provoking AoO's, because you WILL want to cast non-channeled spells in combat sometimes. (Like Enervation, which is a Ranged Touch spell.)

Mithril Full Plate will likely be the best armor for you. It's Medium, so no ASF.

And remember, you can Arcane Channel ANY Range:Touch spell you know, not just Duskblade spells.

HOWEVER: Armored Mage specifies your Duskblade spells, so any non-Duskblade Arcane spells DO suffer ASF. (Divine do not.)

[BenTheJester]

Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion +5, for cool points, high level spells channeled through your sword, and that bard song thing that increases your caster level. Requires quite a high charisma, but fortunately allows you to ditch your int at 14 points (you don't need save DCs or bonus spells at all).

You need at least 1 level of Bard to qualify for Suble Chord, and having Able Learner will help you immensely

Bard 1/Duskblade 13/Sublime Chord 2/Abj Champion 4 is a good build.

Mage of the Arcane Order X, for spellpool which means you can take any 6th level or lower spell from the PHB (Bestow Curse, anyone?) and hit people with it a few times per day.

The bad thing with MotAO is that it requires a full round to call a spell.





Also, how could the handbook not help you?

[Darkfire]

That does not make any sense at all.

Yeah, I thought that first as well. It does, however, make it consistent with the rules relating to critical hits:

Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage is not multiplied when you score a critical hit.
here (d20srd.org)

as well as extra damage dice from magic weapons:

Additional Damage Dice
Some magic weapons deal additional dice of damage. Unlike other modifiers to damage, additional dice of damage are not multiplied when the attacker scores a critical hit.
here (d20srd.org)

Also, don't forget that weapons have different crit multipliers. Using, for example, a scythe and getting to apply its multiplier to an arcane channeled Shocking Grasp @ CL5 and suddenly you're doing 8d4+20d6 damage (avg. 90) as a 5th level character in a single action using a 1st level spell and that's before taking into account the additional (4*1.5*Str mod)+(4*2*Power Attack)+anything from other sources.

I would still consider the high crit weapon just because of the power attack double on the attack. Unless there is a rule that doesn't allow that either.

As far as I know, that's still multiplied on a crit. However, once you get full-attack channeling, you may be better off maximising your threatened area with a reach weapon and armour spikes as, barring crits, the majority of your 'damage' is going to be coming from the channeled spell: The spell's effect can only be applied once per target so having more targets available enables you to get more mileage out of your spells.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd say that if you have an 18-20 weapon with Keen or Improved Crit to get 15-20, your channeled spell wouldn't also crit unless you rolled within the spell's threat range (20, or 19-20 if you have improved crit: touch spell). Expecting a spell with a critical threat range of only-on-20 to be considered a critical hit every time your 15-20 weapon scores a crit is just absurd.