Improvising Feats

[tgva8889]

Improvisor [General]
Requirements: 13 Int
Benifit: You are skilled in using improvised items to complete tasks. You can use improvised tools with skills to no penalty if a skill would normally require a tool to use. In addition, the attack penalty for using improvised weapons reduces by 2, normally making it a -2 penalty to hit.

Improvising Combatant [General]
Requirements: Improvisor
Benifit: You are skilled in fighting with improvised weapons. When you attack with improvised weapons, your attack penalty is reduced by 2, normally making it -2. This stacks with the penalty reduction from the Improvisor feat.

Improvised Weapon Focus [General]
Requirements: Same as Weapon Focus, Improvising Combatant, Improvisor
Benifit: Same as Weapon Focus, except this bonus is given to any improvised weapon used.

Improvised Weapon Specialty [General]
Requirements: Fighter level 4th, Improvised Weapon Focus, Improvising Combatant, Improvisor
Benifit: Same as Weapon Specialization, except this bonus is given to any improvised weapon used.

Improved Improvised Weapon Focus [General]
Requirements: Fighter level 8th, Improvised Weapon Focus, Improvisor, Improvising Combatant
Benifit: Same as Improved Weapon Focus, except this bonus is given to any improvised weapons used.

Improved Improvised Weapon Specialization [General]
Requirements: Fighter level 12th, Improvised Weapon Focus, Improvised Weapon Specialization, Improved Improvised Weapon Focus, Improvisor, Improvising Combatant
Benifit: Same as Improved Weapon Specialization, except this bonus is given to any improvised weapons used.

Is this good? Or no? It doesn't seem that cheap to me.

[That Lanky Bugger]

The first two are fine, but the other four seem to be really counter-intuitive: You can't specialize in a hunk of wood, because it's a random hunk of wood.

[Ugly_Panda]

You could specialize in smacking stuff without regard to general shape of said smacking implement.

The problem with improvised weapons is there is no reason to use them over purchased, magical weapons.

[Catch]

Might be okay for a low-magic setting. Another idea is to increase the damage die for improvised weapons, simliar to the Drunken Master ability, which might make the feats a little more attractive.

[tgva8889]

Something like...

Improvisor Strike [General]
Requirements: Improvisor, Improvising Combatant, Improvised Weapon Focus, +3BAB
Benefit: Your skill with improvised weapons allows you to strike for extra damage with improvised weapons. Any improvised weapon you hit with deals 100% more damage. Extra damage, from Sneak Attacks, for example, is not multiplied.


Improved Improvisor Strike [General]
Requirements: Improvisor, Improvising Combatant, Improvised Weapon Focus, Improvisor Strike, +6 BAB
Benefit: Your skill with improvised weapons has increased to such that you strike with even greater damage. Any improvised weapon you hit with deals 100% more damage. This stacks with Improvisor Strike.

or

Your skill with improvised weapons has increaed to such that you stirke with even greater damage. Any improvised weapon you hit with deals an extra 1d6 damage. This damage is not multiplied with critical hits or Improvisor Strike.

[Dhavaer]

The problem with improvised weapons is there is no reason to use them over purchased, magical weapons.

There shouldn't be a reason to hit someone with a bottle rather than a sword. Swords are meant for killing people, bottles aren't.

[tgva8889]

But the point is, if you pump up all the damage from improvised weapons, that would be cool! At least, I think it would be. It's not about having a powerful feat, it's about the flavor! If the feat is cool, then I've won.

[Nolfar]

Actually, there IS sometimes. Things like the drunken master, who doesn't use normal weapons because he's more or less not allowed to, or a smith who makes his own special weapons, like a gauntlet-mounted dagger launcher and such, tecnically both are considered improbvised weapons, and it generally annoys me to no end when my fighter with maxed out ranks in Craft: Weaponsmithing goes around making completely new weapons and yet can't use them effectively because of non-proficency, rather liked the old Weaponmaster (3.0) class for that, at least took some of the sting out of it.

[Jarlax]

ive looked into this feat tree before, the outcome the forum came up with was a single feat, it removes the penalty to hit with improvised weapons but at the cost that additional combat feats cannot be used with those weapons. (so you can never gain waponon focus, never preform weapon finesse and never use one for a power attack)

the goal of the feat is not to replace normal weapons but to open up fighting options when regular weapons are not on hand (sundered or stolen) or are ineffective (immunity Vs damage). good for rouges who are ever the oppurtunists or fighters looking to open up their options in combat.

this also means that the feat, while handy to have in a pinch doesnt replace the superior drunken master class abilities. more of a flavour feat to make tavern NPC's more interesting.

[MalachorWraith]

Actually, there IS sometimes. Things like the drunken master, who doesn't use normal weapons because he's more or less not allowed to, or a smith who makes his own special weapons, like a gauntlet-mounted dagger launcher and such, tecnically both are considered improbvised weapons, and it generally annoys me to no end when my fighter with maxed out ranks in Craft: Weaponsmithing goes around making completely new weapons and yet can't use them effectively because of non-proficency, rather liked the old Weaponmaster (3.0) class for that, at least took some of the sting out of it.

Well depending on how easy they are to use, get them house ruled as either simple or martial weapons. Or make a feat that allows any person who made the item to only take -2 instead of -4 to attack.

I think the problem with that feat down the line translates roughly into any person can use any weapon that they want to without proficiency. What's the difference between a chain on the ground and a spiked chain? This could possibly be another step to the breakdown of the classes.

[Damian_Blackclaw]

There shouldn't be a reason to hit someone with a bottle rather than a sword. Swords are meant for killing people, bottles aren't.

I disagree entirely.

Damian

[Democratus]

I disagree entirely.

Damian

Which part do you disagree with; that swords are made for killing or that bottles are not?

[MalachorWraith]

Well what is the purpose of a rock on the ground? Now what is the purpose of a bottle? Now what is the purpose of a folding chair? A WWF afficionado would have very different answers for you.

[Democratus]

The purpose of a bottle is to contain fluid. If it is used for something else, that use is 'improvised' - just as described in the rules.

The RAW give us a comprehensive list of weapons (simple, martial, etc.). But a folding chair is not manufactured to be used as a weapon. It isn't balanced for wielding or constructed to maximize damage output. It's made for folding and sitting.

[Tomada]

What's the problem with a:

+5 flaming burst Chair Leg?

Or

+2 Vorpal broken bottle?

Or even

+3 boulder of returning?

[Democratus]

First of all, you would need a masterwork broken bottle. How would you do that?

You can 'Rule 0' anything you want. Just don't pretend that it makes sense under the RAW.

[tgva8889]

What is RAW anyways?

[Tomada]

First of all, you would need a masterwork broken bottle. How would you do that?

You can 'Rule 0' anything you want. Just don't pretend that it makes sense under the RAW.

Grab a masterwork bottle (can be of a harder glass, I don't know) break it ;D

Masterwork chair leg? You know those very old chairs, made with the best wood? There they are! They are masterwork (as in masterwork instrument for bard), although not intended for battle. But the rules didn't say they needed to be made to kill

[Jarlax]

The purpose of a bottle is to contain fluid. If it is used for something else, that use is 'improvised' - just as described in the rules.

The RAW give us a comprehensive list of weapons (simple, martial, etc.). But a folding chair is not manufactured to be used as a weapon. It isn't balanced for wielding or constructed to maximize damage output. It's made for folding and sitting.

this is true, inprovised weapons are not for fighting, they give you a -4 to hit do terrible damage and depending on your DM would probibly break after 2-3 attacks.

however at the same time there is a list of improv weapons and their damage in one of the expanded books, i belive one of the "Complete" books.

fact of the matter is the drunken master prestige class proves that improvised weapons can be anything and used quite often to great success. also masterworking a improv weapon will not grant it a +1 bonus in combat, since its masterworking would be in terms of design for its original perpose.

[The_Werebear]

In one of my campaigns, we had a very CE giant, who managed to capture and mentaly break two gnomes. He had them enchanted to +1 and returning, and used them instead of throwing rocks. The DM let him do it once he took and EWP with them.

Kind of random, but amusing. I don't see why you couldn't choose to specialize with table leg or broken bottle if you took the time to learn how to do it.

[Ugly_Panda]

Improvised weapons are only if you have nothing better to use. Would you rather use a broken bottle to stab someone, or a sword? They both get the job done, but the sword is sturdier, has much longer reach, and has more fighting styles associated with it than the bottle.

I don't think improvised weapons should do more damage than normal since you could just claim that your sword is improvised and get more damage out of it than normal. I've said before that improvised weapons should give you a bonus to feint checks because of the sheer rediculousness though.

[Jarlax]

somthing that is already a simple martial or exotic weapon cannot be a improvised weapon. its covered in the rules or in the eratta. this also stops the obvious abuse of selecting improvised weapons on a monk or wizard and suddenly having access to every weapon in the game and claiming to weild them improvised.

best use of a improv weapon i have ever heard of was using a whole table in a bull rush, bonuses to the rush and bonus damage.

[Ugly_Panda]

I just don't see why a masterwork table leg would hurt more than a masterwork club. They should do about the same damage.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think masterwork relates to the item being better at its basic function. A masterwork bottle should either be bigger of studdier than a normal bottle, not sharper.

[Bierhoff]

as I recall, the drunken master in sword and fist had a proficency with bottles and tinkards ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010105 ), although that seems to have disapeared in Complete warrior.

I'd rule that you can focus/specialize on a particular type of item. If you want to get one specially designed to combat (ex war fans) cough up the gold and you'll be able to find some one to make it for you aka produce a masterwork (although there may be an added cost for weirding the craftsman out).

what's the difference between a table leg and a club after all?

[tgva8889]

Table legs tend to be attacked to tables and not used for smashing in enemy heads.

I don't know what else I can do with Improvised Weapons...

Improvised Sneak Attack [General]
Requirements: Improvisor, Improvising Combatant, Improvised Weapon Focus, Improvisor Strike, +3 BAB
Benifit: When you would strike from hiding with an Improvised Weapon at range, you gain a +5 bonus on your hide check to hide again. Your sneak attack also deals an additional 1d6 points of damage. You only gain this bonus on Hide checks when hiding after an attack from a hidden position IN A CROWDED AREA.

I suppose this would be for in crowded areas, to hit the passerby...I mean passing enemy. They wouldn't know which direction the attack came from, and so you could hide easier. I don't know...