Comment on my new race!

[Soniku]

After playing a character of this race in a non D&D system (it was a magic the gathering roleplay and this is my favorate MtG race) I decided to see if it would be at all effective in D&D, and this is my first bash at modifiers and stats:

Race: Leonin

Appearence: Lenonin avarage height is around 5'6" tall. They are humanoid lion-like beings, similar to kitsune. They have a slim yet well muscled build, makeing them capable of both great feats of agility due to their feline flexibility and reactions, and strength from powerful muscles.

The leonin are a race of vicious, yet highly spiritual, tribal warrior race (think steriotypical native Americans and you know what I mean by spiritual). Similar to the drow the females are dominant in this society, but not to such an extent. The females are usually warriors and hunters while the males are priests and mages.

Size: Medium

+1 dex
+1 str
-2 con

40 base land speed

In combat the Leonin get claw/claw/bite (d6/d6/d8) attacks if unnarmed but can use any weapons humans can.

Favoured class:
females: Hunter (yeah, Im still working on the class, but just think of it as a melle ranger until I post it)
Males: cleric

Language: Leonin speak both common and their own tounge, composed of mostly snarling and deep growls.

[Frank]

If you have Albunas, a Leonin, and a Platinum Angel in your party, does that mean that your party can't die?

Anyway the party wizard could cast tooth and nail and conjure Albunas and a Plat. Angel out for the price of one spell?

Could I just take a kiki-giki and a Sundering Titan instead? They're hella broken.

...

Sorry, last cycle's MTG Type II rant. Damn Tooth and Nail.

But yeah...maybe for them, I'd go

+1 str
+1 wis
-1 Int
-1 Con.

I don't think Leonin are particularly dextrious...and they're definitely not that low on Constitution. Definitely not smart, necessarily, but know their magic from folky type dealie-os...their magic would be more druid than Wizard-based, I'd think.

As for other stuff? I wouldn't know where to start...need my PHB on me...think one of my bros has it.

-Frank

[Sciurusaurus]

First off, I'd say that 1-point stat adjustments in 3rd edition is not usually a good idea. I would rather go with 2-point adjustments.

However, giving +2 to both strength and dexterity for only a -2 in constitution is a bit strong, especially since the race has powerful natural attacks as well.

If you have access to Arcana Unearthed/Arcana Evolved (the Monte Cook version, not the WotC UA), I'd suggest a look at Litorians to see if they would fit your concept.

If not, perhaps something like this :

Leonin :

+2 Str, -2 Int

Natural attacks : Claws x2 (1d6), Bite (1d8)

This is IMO a bit on the strong side, but not enough to warrant a LA. If you want to pull this all the way, you could go :

Leonin :

+2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Int

Natural armor : +1

Natural attacks : Claws x2 (1d6), Bite (1d8)

Level Adjustment : +1

This may again be a bit weak for LA +1, so maybe remove the -2 to Int for the LA version.

Edit : Both versions keep your fluff text, base speed, languages and favored classes.

[Cubey]

I'm rather sure that Soniku would give the race an int penalty if he wanted them to be slightly dumber than normal. I'd stick with the con penalty instead.
As for str bonus, I'd remove it and stick with just +2 dex, -2 con. Remember that half-orcs get a total of -4 to their mental stats to balance out the strength, as it is the most important stat in the game.

My version:
everything as Soniku, but the attribute modifiers are as follows:
+2 dex
-2 con

[Soniku]

Just in a response to Frank, The +1 dex is to show their feline reflexes and flexibility, as we all know cats have good balence, co-ordination and suchlike.
Also, the reason I gave -2 con is because although they are tough they havent got as much physical endurance, e.g. they could run faster than other races but only for a minute, and then they would need to rest

[Democratus]

This race already exists in Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved. They are called Litorians, but they are otherwise the same - even the same culture (spiritual, tribal warriors).

It's a great book. Check it out!

[ImperiousLeader]

Just in a response to Frank, The +1 dex is to show their feline reflexes and flexibility, as we all know cats have good balence, co-ordination and suchlike.

That's all well and good, but +1 bonuses are discouraged because they reward metagaming. A starting character with 15 Dex takes this race and improves his Dex to the next modifier, while another character with 14 or 16 DEX gains no benefit.

If you want to model improved dexterity, but don't want to actually give a +2 bonus to Dex, consider giving racial bonuses to a few DEX skills like balance and tumble.

[Reptile]

Medium creatures generally have claw attacks of 1d4 and bite attacks of 1d4 or 1d6. (Ex: lizardfolk, werewolves, half-dragons...). I'd probably follow this model unless you have a convincing reason not to.

I also agree wiith ImperiousLeader and others re: +1 stat adjustments, and second the idea of giving bonuses to specific skills as an alternative.

[ImperiousLeader]

Yeah, the natural attacks are too powerful. I'd recommend dropping them to d4s and a d6 bite. Mind you, three natural attacks qualifies the Leonin for the Multiattack feat and is probably worth a level adjustment, you don't tend to see LA 0 races with three natural attacks. Especially with the 40ft base speed. The only medium races I know with that base speed are Thri-keen and Catfolk, and they both have level adjustments.

Assuming you want a LA 0 race, here's my revision:

Leonin:

+2 Dex, -2 CON
+2 racial bonus to Climb and Jump checks.
Base Land speed: 30ft.
Natural attacks: 2 claws 1d4

Sprint (Ex): Once per day, A Leonine can boost their base landspeed to 60 ft. for 1 minute, after which they are fatigued for 1 hour.

[Ayana]

I'm not familiar with the race, but for a normal lion the bite is the 'main' weapon.

I'd suggest:
+2dex
-2con
-2int
Speed 40'
Bite: 1d6

[bosssmiley]

Reinventing the wheel Soniku old son. Look up Catfolk in "Races of the Wild", Rakastas (lionfolk) from the old Mystara setting or the Shifters from Eberron. Any one of those - the Catfolk esp. - should fulfill your need for a feline race.

Oh, and the stat bonuses/penalties in D&D always increase by increments of +/-2. There's a good reason for this if you think about it...

edit: added ref to Eberron

[Soniku]

wow, first, thanks to all of you for responding :o

Medium creatures generally have claw attacks of 1d4 and bite attacks of 1d4 or 1d6

I have a good reason, I thought it was 1d6/1d8 >.>...

oopsie ^^;

Leonin:

+2 Dex, -2 CON
+2 racial bonus to Climb and Jump checks.
Base Land speed: 30ft.
Natural attacks: 2 claws 1d4

Sprint (Ex): Once per day, A Leonine can boost their base landspeed to 60 ft. for 1 minute, after which they are fatigued for 1 hour.

I like this one! I think I might just add a 1d4 bite because this is really good ^^

Reinventing the wheel Soniku old son. Look up Catfolk in "Races of the Wild", Rakastas (lionfolk) from the old Mystara setting or the Shifters from Eberron. Any one of those - the Catfolk esp. - should fulfill your need for a feline race.

THATS why I couldnt find one alredy, ill bet some of the links said Rakasta but I read it as Raksasha <.<

[Deleran]

Tangential topic: Why are Rakshasas tigers in D&D? They're supposed to be shapeshifters who usually look more or less like people in Indian myth.

[Soniku]

Tangential answer: D&D used its artistic license and decided to change it so as not to end up with another doppleganger/phasm/lycanthrope type creature

[Deleran]

But they're still shape shifters... except they're tigers.

[tgva8889]

Leonin don't use bite attacks. Ever.

Also, Females are NOT dominant. They are both equal. If anything, Males are dominant (as they are the only ones who can be the leader-people-things).

They should have a Strength mod, but other than that, I can't see any real subtractions that make sense.

They don't REALLY have natural armor, but they are skilled warriors. Favored Class: Fighter makes more sense to me than either of the others you mentioned. Or, Favored Class: Ranger I suppose. Rangers can be melee pretty easily, if you're smart.

They should have Rake probably, it seems to make sense to me.

I'd say minus to Intelligence, not Wisdom. A good number of Leonin are Wise, but there are none who are truely Intelligent. Wisdom seems to be more of a score in the Leonin society than Intelligence, but they shouldn't have a bonus on it.

+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence
Base Landspeed 30ft
2 Claw attacks, 1d4
Languages: Common and Leonin
Favored Class: Fighter

If you give me a reason with proof from the book for them to have skill bonuses, give them to them. But Climb
and Jump don't seem to make sense to me. Maybe Sense Motive or Survival, but I don't think Climb and Jump. And I don't see how they get speed bonuses in the book either. I'm all for the speed bonus though.

[Matthew]

I'm not sure I agree with this +1 Stat adjustment as a bad idea. Surely, since every four levels you get a +1 stat adjustment, that kind of metagaming already goes on? So wouldn't the advantage to a character with 14 or 16 Dex be that at Level Four they can move it up to the next bonus, unlike the fellow with a 15 Dex who would have to move it up to 17 first and wait until Level Eight? Similarly, with the -2 Stat adjustment it always makes sense to use an odd number, so you can keep your even numbers for the potential fourth level 'bump up' (unless your planning on adjusting your negatively affected stat), which seems like it encourages meta gaming to me.
I wouldn't encourage +1 Stat adjustments, but not for this reason, more for the sake of uniformity for Racial Templates.

Or am I missing something?