How much is to much?

[Sewercop]

For a god in d&d. What would it take to get the attention of the gods?

A god with thousand followers would probably recon that killing 100 of them to much. 100 followers can be slain in one day by a reasonable high party of adventurers.

What would it take to get cyric,bane, etc to notice the players actions?
(besides clerics praying for spells)
And if they notice them, what would they do?

I have no intention of throwing gods at my players in any game really.. I am just wondering where the line are drawn. Because face it, sometimes players do things that are bigger than themselves.

[Gnorman]

For a god in d&d. What would it take to get the attention of the gods?

A god with thousand followers would probably recon that killing 100 of them to much. 100 followers can be slain in one day by a reasonable high party of adventurers.

What would it take to get cyric,bane, etc to notice the players actions?
(besides clerics praying for spells)
And if they notice them, what would they do?

I have no intention of throwing gods at my players in any game really.. I am just wondering where the line are drawn. Because face it, sometimes players do things that are bigger than themselves.

Technically, gods are instantly aware of any activity involving their portfolio. Any murder anywhere and Cyric is aware of it, by a strict reading.

Whether or not he DOES something, though, is kind of up to the DM.

[Xefas]

Do you mean "Take notice" or "Take notice and directly intervene in the mortal realm to do something about it"?

Clerics are how the Gods normally interact with the world. If you murder a few mid level clerics, that's that much fewer Lesser Planar Ally spells bringing the Deity's servants in the Prime, that much fewer Atonements bringing in wayward members of the flock, that much fewer Hallows/Unhallows sanctifying certain areas, - you get the idea.

But even then, a God is probably going to answer such an affront by contacting a sizable group of his Clerics, Favored Souls, Paladins (or Crusaders if he's one of those awesome Gods who owns the Tome of Battle), and any other adventure-capable followers to come and massacre you and all your friends.

I think the only way you're going to get a God's personal attention is by Plane Shifting to their personal domain and literally spitting in their eye.

[Gaiyamato]

I think the only way you're going to get a God's personal attention is by Plane Shifting to their personal domain and literally spitting in their eye.

Is there a way that a barbarian can do this...
I am genuinely interested.

Though spitting was not entirely what I had in mind.

[Xefas]

Is there a way that a barbarian can do this...
I am genuinely interested.

Though spitting was not entirely what I had in mind.

2,250gp will get you a single-use one-way 'Widget of Plane Shift' that requires no skill to use.

And, I mean, when your goal is pissing off a God (pissing *on* a God?), who really plans a return trip?

EDIT: Also, Barbarian planning a suicide mission to take down a God? I can see that.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Question's too broad. Are we talking Eberron, Faerûn, or what? Deities in Eberron don't even necessarily exist AFAIK, while deities in Faerûn are limited from overt intervention but definitely act through their Chosen.

If a deity only has a thousand worshippers, it seems likely that we're talking either tiny cults spread throughout other regions, or one town or tribe worshipping it. In that case, you'd expect it to be in constant communication with said worshippers, and providing them such assistance as it can on a pretty immediate basis. If Moander's secret cult in the Dalelands is attacked by adventurers, Moander will probably send a bunch of huge evil shambling mounds to defend them (assuming he can do anything at all; he's a dead deity, but that didn't stop him from getting up and wading a path of rot through the forest...).

[Curmudgeon]

I have no intention of throwing gods at my players in any game really.. I am just wondering where the line are drawn. Because face it, sometimes players do things that are bigger than themselves.

I don't think this is a question you need to answer. If the players do something too outrageous, rocks fall from the skies and they die. They don't get an explanation because they don't deserve one. Whether it's deities, avatars, chosen agents, or just a freak meteor shower doesn't need to be disclosed.

[Dixieboy]

Technically, gods are instantly aware of any activity involving their portfolio. Any murder anywhere and Cyric is aware of it, by a strict reading.

Whether or not he DOES something, though, is kind of up to the DM.

While Cyric might be aware he has a big problem with the whole "Giving a crap" aspect, as evidenced by the whole bhaalspawn episode.

So yea, it's the DM choice but i wouldn't have him actually do anything himself unless someone is a direct threat to him, or he's bored.

[Sewercop]

I did not know that the gods of faerun could not intervene except by their chosen one. Can you say why it is so?

A divine rank 1 god(demigod) could have 1000 followers(says few hundred to a few thousand). So it is possible to have a god with few followers.

I get that gods usually do not care, but are they in general so careless that they oversee potential problems? A potential problem for a god are probably not something most players get involved in, but i am just curious about what it would take to get a god so ticked off that he\she\it goes on a path of vengeance.

Regarding which worlds and so, feel free to post what you think are most natural for the gods.
There are no right or wrong answer really since it depends on what the gamemaster in each game feel appropriate .

Sending in the cavalry(clerics,pallys, crusaders and so forth) i recon are a good beginning :) And a good story hook

[Belial_the_Leveler]

To piss off the gods you must behave like the gentleman below. Looking like him is optional.

[Dixieboy]

while deities in Faerûn are limited from overt intervention but definitely act through their Chosen.

Though to be honest no one enforces that.
Ao is supposed to but he's to busy being the ruler of everything there ever was and ever will be to actually care about anything.

The times of trouble had the gods literary walking amongst the people
What about the avatars of the gods who sometimes show up?
I believe an old published adventure had you killing off Lolth
Oh and the Bhaalspawn saga.

[Tsotha-lanti]

I did not know that the gods of faerun could not intervene except by their chosen one. Can you say why it is so?

Time of Troubles. Since then, deities have had to play by some rules, more or less. They can communicate, but they can't come down and fight. So Cyric could inspire a mortal to write the Cyrinishad, but he couldn't actually come down and start killing Bane's priests, because then Bane would come down, and while they're doing this all the good deities would gang up on them, and then the other evil deities would strike at them...

It's basically the threat of mutually assured destruction. (That, and Ao's rules.)

Though to be honest no one enforces that.
Ao is supposed to but he's to busy being the ruler of everything there ever was and ever will be to actually care about anything.

Yes, Ao enforces it. In fact, I would imagine it's less a matter of "enforce" and more a matter of "they're unable to."

The times of trouble had the gods literary walking amongst the people

Yes, because Ao cast them all into Toril in mortal form.

What about the avatars of the gods who sometimes show up?

AFAIK the deities of Faerûn only send avatars to communicate, not to act, although this is unclear. What sort of activities have the avatars of any deities in Faerûn gotten up to since 1358, precisely?

I believe an old published adventure had you killing off Lolth

You mean D3, Vault of the Drow? Not FR.

Oh and the Bhaalspawn saga.

A result of the ToT. Bhaal died in the ToT, his essence got put in a few mortals.

[Sewercop]

Thanks for the answer regarding ao.

Avatars are mighty enough to open a descent can of whooping anyhow, so i guess they are those handling the "business" and the god takes care of deity politics.

I guess that whooping an avatar would get the attention of the real deal if i was gming.
Unless as eariler mentioned.. Spitting at god.. In his home :)

At least that character would get the question:
why do you spit at me?

[Dixieboy]

Yes, Ao enforces it. In fact, I would imagine it's less a matter of "enforce" and more a matter of "they're unable to."

They seem to do it pretty often though.

Yes, because Ao cast them all into Toril in mortal form.

Still the gods

AFAIK the deities of Faerûn only send avatars to communicate, not to act, although this is unclear. What sort of activities have the avatars of any deities in Faerûn gotten up to since 1358, precisely?

I can find quite a few instances of avatars killing people
That is not communcation, Uunless your name is Gruumsh

You mean D3, Vault of the Drow? Not FR.

Didn't know that

A result of the ToT. Bhaal died in the ToT, his essence got put in a few mortals.

Also:
Cyric showed up
Teleported a few assassins to your location
and mocked you a bit

some old unnamed god is actively standing guard over some kind of rod-thingy
Though he's too weak to actually do anything himself.

[Tsotha-lanti]

I can find quite a few instances of avatars killing people

Names and dates? I'm seriously interested, because I don't know of any such instances after 1358 DR (ToT).

[hamishspence]

Prince of Lies, and Crucible- The Trial of Cyric the Mad

Set in 1369-1371, the amount of avatar interference can best be described as Lots. At least some of which is lethal.

[Learnedguy]

Well, I can tell you one thing. You don't want numbers if you mean to attract a deity. You want statements.

Try beginning with killing a boatload of his clergy and then arranging them into piles creating big human letters spelling out things like "Hey Pelor, we need to talk, *****" or maybe "I'm in your temple, killing your clergs, *****".

...And if that doesn't work, simply up the scale.

[Coidzor]

Killing off a "special" follower of a god would usually get at least a "keep tabs on this one and if convenient, kill" to "alert clergy and nudge things into place to kill 'em" depending upon the level of involvement with the world and followers.

Boccob, not really gonna care unless he loses face by, say, having his high priest killed in a very embarrassing way that is widely known and humiliates him to the point where he'll actually take notice. Gruumsh and such, basically view adventurers as a valid means of culling the herd of the weak, though if they notice a particular group or individual conspiring against them, they'll notice and begin nudging monsters they can influence to take out the party or even let various clericky-types know they can score some mojo if they take out some who dare to oppose X.

If, say, you're destroying altars and killing cultists of a particular regularly or manage to be particularly flamboyant and insulting (hard to do with how often deities altars are desecrated in the smash and grab worlds that adventurers inhabit), then the deity is probably going to notice you unless it's ruled that they don't have any special awareness of their places of worship. They'll feel the followers though, but depending upon whether they think you're just adventurers or if you're on a specific crusade against you or they're even capable of finding that many more of your followers in order to make it an unacceptable loss....

Even taking as a given that gods need followers... I don't know if there are any rules that actually go into how this works or how their number of followers determines their rank. If there are, or you would prefer the framework, simply come up with a range of followers per grade of deity and have deities who are on the low end of their grade be more aware of lost followers due to the threat of being knocked down a peg.

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Say... 1-100 is a Totem Spirit(I'm looking at you, Banjo! ) or some such... 1000ish is the median/low-end of a demigod(requiring worship rather than being invested by an existing deity)... 1 million being something around an over-deity unless the world's population is larger than a couple million... *shrug* Pantheons would be convenient and safe for gods due to the fact that they share the worship of anyone who worships the pantheon and they don't have to cater to everything or leave gaping holes in their theology, instead taking the usual flow and whatever special prayers/worship/invocation of their portfolio and nominally cooperating.

Edit: Actually, come to think of it, I wouldn't assign specific numbers... more like, use the range as an idea of how extensive it is or just come up with adjectives to describe the extent of a deity of such and such grade's worship and influence. Some gods would be more comfortable with their position with others. Maybe a position within their divine influence/followers range like... struggling(close to falling down or just recently ascended up a rank, low end), comfortable(mid-range, buffer in both ways so that there's no real need to risk things by overreaching), and reaching (upper end, may or may not actively be trying to reach the next god-range/rank...)

Maybe a multi-axis... like... Divine Rank, Extent of Worship(in case they can get power/status/divine rank from sources other than having worshippers alone), Temporal purview, part of a pantheon(y/n?)

Possibly there'd be regional/local gods who are more powerful in a general area but weaken the further from there.

[hamishspence]

Apparently, in Deities and Demigods, the lower-ranked deities can't sense portfolio-related events on a small scale- which means numbers might be important.

Though, if we assume deity makes full use of power to sense areas around designated locations (altars, for example) then doing that would be a quick way to top of the deity's priority list.

Power of Faerun goes into a lot more detail on deities, movers and shakers, and the fact that, at least in Faerun, direct smiting is considered a poor method by deities.