Familiar Trade In (Plz respond ASAP)

[Brom]

I have a player who wants to trade in the familiar. She is not a specialist, doesn't want a different kind of familiar, and I won't let her take the Flaw (Loner).

What are your recommendations?

[Farlion]

Item Familiar?

[Ichneumon]

If it is only for flavor/rp reasons and not something she wants to do because it would be hugely mechanically superior. Why does she want to change familiars?

[MisterSaturnine]

Technically not RAW-legal, but the PHBII gives Hexblades the option of replacing the Familiar with a Dark Companion (which is essentially a mobile debuffer thing). You could offer her the same substitution.

[Coidzor]

Why does she wanna get rid of it anyway? 'sgonna hurt her to do so, regardless of what she does, isn't it?

[kamikasei]

A bonus feat or two would probably be a not-unreasonable trade. Alternatively, you could give her, say, an Artificer's craft reserve (bonus XP for item crafting). Depends on what she does want to do with her character. You can get a familiar with a feat, so getting a feat back in exchange is reasonable.

[BobVosh]

Technically they only get summon familiar, its also assumed you have done it. Just assumed she didn't. You don't have to use all your class features. I'm pretty sure a wizard won't particularly miss it.

[Brom]

Just is afraid of forgetting it exists and me as the DM forgetting it exists. Sort of like V's familiar. "It's been here this whole time!"

[Pharaoh's Fist]

There is a feat that allows you to get a familiar, so trading a familiar for a feat sounds fair.

There are also a few wizard variants on the SRD and elsewhere that trade the familiar for things.

[Farlion]

Just is afraid of forgetting it exists and me as the DM forgetting it exists. Sort of like V's familiar. "It's been here this whole time!"

Then make a large note and stick it on his character sheet:


You've got a familiar! Don't forget about it!

[Uin]

Shame about being a non-specialist wizard, nothing I can think of for them. Another reason they might not want a familiar is because they can be a TRAP for nasty DMs... maybe they have had a bad experience in the past.

[KillianHawkeye]

Just is afraid of forgetting it exists and me as the DM forgetting it exists. Sort of like V's familiar. "It's been here this whole time!"

There's not actually anything wrong with this. The wizard and the psion in the last D&D game I ran both never used their familiar/psicrystal for anything. Not once from level 4 to level 12. And that's fine.

Or, as BobVosh pointed out, they could just not have one. You don't HAVE to give them a consolation prize.

[Irreverent Fool]

My recommendation: Dragon 338 has the option for a wizard to trade in their ability to have a familiar for the ability to imbue a wizard staff. It also has a list of VERY USEFUL feats for use with the imbued staff. You can get the pdf from Paizo for about five dollars (and retain the right to download it from your account page).

If she's already summoned her familiar, I don't think there are any 'trade-in' options. By the RAW, dismissing a familiar carries the same penalties as allowing it to be slain, so that's no help. If she hasn't summoned it yet, she is under no obligation to do so. Honestly, a full casting class is powerful enough without any bonuses.

I recommend against the item familiar. It is an item that is far too much of an advantage if the character keeps it and far too much of a disadvantage if lost.

obnoxious
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[Devils_Advocate]

Class Feature Equivalencies ahoy!

Unearthed Arcana has a specialist Wizard variant for each school of magic that a specialist can use instead of a familiar.

Edit: Oops, she's not a specialist. Well, you could consider letting her have one of those abilities anyway.

If you're uncomfortable just giving her an extra feat (which I assume, if you're not allowing the no-familiar flaw), maybe you could let her pick from a list of feats. Give her an extra Wizard bonus feat, maybe.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

A Familiar is about equivalent to a feat. Note that most of them give a feat as well as the familiar itself. Let her swap it for a Wizard bonus feat. Not overpowering. I'd also allow her to take any of the PHBII or UA ACFs except Abrupt Jaunt, they're not really OP and might add a bit of flavor.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Or, as BobVosh pointed out, they could just not have one. You don't HAVE to give them a consolation prize.

Just don't pay the 100 gp fee.

[FMArthur]

Give her a fight bonus feat.

Item Familiar looks okay to me except for the XP+ ability and the ridiculous drawback that if you lose it you are even worse off than if you had decided not to make one.

[Irreverent Fool]

Give her a fight bonus feat.

Item Familiar looks okay to me except for the XP+ ability and the ridiculous drawback that if you lose it you are even worse off than if you had decided not to make one.

That's the problem. I don't recall who posted it (or where), but someone made a very good argument about why item familiar is a bad idea. The XP option basically works out to free XP for anyone who takes the feat and the only thing that balances the item familiar is the threat of loss (notice that it requires nothing except character level 3rd. Even a fighter can take it). However, should the DM bring up a situation where the item is lost, the drawback is pretty extreme. So this item puts the DM in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation. If he NEVER takes it away, expect to see other characters taking item familiar. If he does take it away, expect to see the single character regretting ever taking the feat in the first place and likely feeling resentful.

All of the 'invest' options are like this. Should you lose the item, you lose what you invested in it forever. This is no way to balance a character option. I maintain my recommendation against item familiars unless they specifically provide some sort of purpose within a plot.

Posters above mentioned simply giving her a free feat (which is practically the same as letting her take the flaw). Since each of the familiars already grant a feat, that seems pretty reasonable. (Though I really like the imbued staff option).

obnoxious
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[Sinfire Titan]

Word of advice: You can pimp your familiar to the point that it's as powerful as you are. I had an idea for a Changeling Wizard that enters Recaster and pimps his familiar out with Grafts/skills.


Fun idea: The graft Dragonic Tail from Races of the Dragon allows any familiar to qualify for the Prehensile Tail feat from Savage Species. This, in turn, allows them to activate wands via UMD ranks. Can you say "abuse"?

[Zaq]

That's the problem. I don't recall who posted it (or where), but someone made a very good argument about why item familiar is a bad idea. The XP option basically works out to free XP for anyone who takes the feat and the only thing that balances the item familiar is the threat of loss (notice that it requires nothing except character level 3rd. Even a fighter can take it). However, should the DM bring up a situation where the item is lost, the drawback is pretty extreme. So this item puts the DM in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation. If he NEVER takes it away, expect to see other characters taking item familiar. If he does take it away, expect to see the single character regretting ever taking the feat in the first place and likely feeling resentful.

That someone was me, in my Truenamer thread. (It's in the spoiler marked "The Item Familiar Question.")[/plug]

Perhaps giving them an extra bonus spell would be a good option? Maybe not of their highest level, but perhaps of one less than their highest level... something like that, anyway. Or, allow them to add one or two skills (subject to approval, of course) as class skills.

[Coidzor]

Fun idea: The graft Dragonic Tail from Races of the Dragon allows any familiar to qualify for the Prehensile Tail feat from Savage Species. This, in turn, allows them to activate wands via UMD ranks. Can you say "abuse"?

I don't see how getting the familiar to count as an extra action advantage for UMDing consumable resources is really abuse. It can only hold so many wands after all, and wands only get so good, even if one can do artificer metamagic shebangs with 'em.

[Sinfire Titan]

I don't see how getting the familiar to count as an extra action advantage for UMDing consumable resources is really abuse. It can only hold so many wands after all, and wands only get so good, even if one can do artificer metamagic shebangs with 'em.

Scrolls too. Extra actions can be used for a number of options, such as Dimension Door wands to prevent attacks (this is bare minimum I would use such an ability for).




Then you get into Share Spells and spells like Body of War, Dragonic Polymorph, and GOD knows what else.

[Korivan]

In unearthed arcana, there is the methed of replacing class features with feats, just do that. As for losing the familier hurting you???? Not necesarily. My current Wiz/Sor did the same thing, and its for safety reasons, (i know current dm will gun for it everytime, possibly even to the point of fudging rolls just to hit it. That and I have a huge thing of not even looking like a spellcaster, thanks to silent/still/invisible spell feats). So really like has been said before, its all about flavor and what you hope to accomplish with your caster.
also, there exists 3 or more improve familier, along with feats, level progression, and if your dm allows them to were magical items (or even take class levels), then yes, your familier can become extremely powerful. Still, i guess my mind is in 2nd edition on familiers. And you didnt take a familier unless you were prepared to take alot of tedius steps to protect it.

[Irreverent Fool]

Word of advice: You can pimp your familiar to the point that it's as powerful as you are. I had an idea for a Changeling Wizard that enters Recaster and pimps his familiar out with Grafts/skills.


Fun idea: The graft Dragonic Tail from Races of the Dragon allows any familiar to qualify for the Prehensile Tail feat from Savage Species. This, in turn, allows them to activate wands via UMD ranks. Can you say "abuse"?

Familiars don't gain HD for becoming familiars and since they are drawn from average examples of their creatures, you might be hard-pressed to get it any feats beyond what is typical for a creature of its type.

Applying grafts to it is horrifying and awesome though.

obnoxious
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[erikun]

If they just want to get rid of their familiar - say, they're worried about it dying - any sorcerer or wizard can dismiss an active familiar by RAW. Doing so required a DC 15 Fortitude save to avoid XP loss, but if you know it's going to happen, you can buff your Fort to minimize the risk.

If they want to trade in the familiar for a feat, give them Alertness for it. More seriously, lots of mages have gone without familiars and never saw bonus feats from it. If the player really wants a feat, the Skill Focus or one of the "+2 to two skills" would be an okay tradeoff. I'm not sure if I, as a DM, would feel not using a familiar to be worth another Metamagic feat, though.

[Sinfire Titan]

Familiars don't gain HD for becoming familiars and since they are drawn from average examples of their creatures, you might be hard-pressed to get it any feats beyond what is typical for a creature of its type.

Applying grafts to it is horrifying and awesome though.

obnoxious
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DCFS and Psychic Reformation work for a reason.

[#Raptor]

Technically not RAW-legal, but the PHBII gives Hexblades the option of replacing the Familiar with a Dark Companion (which is essentially a mobile debuffer thing). You could offer her the same substitution.

The Dark Companion gives a -2 to all saves.
Now the Hexblade, he looses something when trading in his familiar (as his familiar has fulll bab and all that). And a crazy-optimized Hexblade still has a hard time keeping up with most classes.

But giving the Wizard a -2 to all enemy saves in exchange for the familiar? Sorry, but that doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

[MisterSaturnine]

The Dark Companion gives a -2 to all saves.
Now the Hexblade, he looses something when trading in his familiar (as his familiar has fulll bab and all that). And a crazy-optimized Hexblade still has a hard time keeping up with most classes.

But giving the Wizard a -2 to all enemy saves in exchange for the familiar? Sorry, but that doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Very useful, yes, but still not as powerful as other things you can do with familiars (pimping it out with spells and grafts and such), or another replacement for it (like Abrupt Jaunt for conjurers). And hey, wizards are kind of expected to be overpowered. At least the Dark Companion's flavorful, and can be destroyed (temporarily--it returns in 24 hours).

[Irreverent Fool]

DCFS and Psychic Reformation work for a reason.

I hadn't considered Psychic Reformation. I don't see psionics in my groups very often. What's DCFS?

obnoxious
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[Coidzor]

I hadn't considered Psychic Reformation. I don't see psionics in my groups very often. What's DCFS?

I too am curious and would like an explanation.

So, OP: Mr. Brom, What'd ya'll end up doing?