[Origins] 4e Wins no Origins Awards

[LibraryOgre]

http://www.critical-hits.com/2009/06...s-awards-2009/

Nominated in 2, lost in 2. Wizards won some, but none for 4e.

[Panda-s1]

Oh well, better luck with the ENnies, I suppose.

[Jack Zander]

That's because 4e doesn't deserve any awards.

*runs for cover*

[Neo]

yeah, unless there's a category for 'most artistic use of white space' then they'll probably not get much.

[Gralamin]

http://www.critical-hits.com/2009/06...s-awards-2009/

Nominated in 2, lost in 2. Wizards won some, but none for 4e.

I only see 4e once on that page (Roleplaying Games) so shouldn't that be Nominated 1, lost 1? It looks like the PHB lost to Mouseguard, which hasn't nearly polarized the community as much as 4e has, so overall its understandable why it won.

[Totally Guy]

Can anyone tell me more about this Mouse Guard game? Can you appreciate it without ever having read the reference material? It looked interesting in the shop.

[Mando Knight]

I only see 4e once on that page (Roleplaying Games) so shouldn't that be Nominated 1, lost 1?

The Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide for Fourth Edition was also in there, and lost alongside the KotOR campaign guide.

It looks like the PHB lost to Mouseguard, which hasn't nearly polarized the community as much as 4e has, so overall its understandable why it won.

I had never heard of it before now.

[Knaight]

Mouse guard is a game set in a Redwall-esque world that uses a simplified version of Burning Wheel for mechanics. Its very well written, with well done examples, and has a very good setting. The mechanics are also very good, although it is very structured, which was seen as a bit divisive to the Burning Wheel people, although Burning Empires did it first and was where the divide actually was caused. Its an extremely impressive work that deserved the award more than fourth edition. It would also probably have edged out 3.5 or 3.0 has they been in the running instead, but they came out in the wrong year, and neatly avoided having to deal with Burning wheel at all.

The other one, for supplement I'm less sure about, but I know that Serenity uses the cortex system, a polyhedral system sort of like Savage Worlds, with a few big differences. Its a pretty good system, but there were some debates on whether the Serenity adaptation was well done. The pervasive view was that it was fairly well done, however I'm not sure to what extent the supplement was rules, and what extent setting info. That said there is a pretty high probability that it deserved the award just as much as the Forgotten Realms book did.

[Kletian999]

Who would nominate the FR "Campaign" guide. That book is only read by "DMs that really love Forgotten Realms and don't mind the timeskip" which anyone can admit is a small group. They should have nominated a "X Power" book or Adventurer's Vault.

[Gralamin]

The Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide for Fourth Edition was also in there, and lost alongside the KotOR campaign guide.

I seem to of Censored Forgotten Realms from being part of D&D in my brain.

I had never heard of it before now.

See Knaight's description.

[Grynning]

I've seen the mouse guard book before, and frankly, I'm surprised it won. The rules didn't seem to be anything special and the setting seemed to be nothing more than a bunch of Redwall fanfic stealthily avoiding copyright violations. Anyone have any experience with it who can explain why it won?

Edit: Apparently it's based on a relatively successful comic series. However, Redwall still predates it by almost 20 years.

[Freelance Henchman]

How good was the competition? Did it lose to something really good?

[-Cor-]

My only response to the OP is...

And?

As far as Mouseguard goes, I haven't heard of it until now... I used to love the Redwall series of books by Brian Jacques (I think I'm spelling his name right), back when I was 12-14, but not sure it would really resonate with me now. Might have to look for this next time I'm in my local gaming store.

[arguskos]

My only response to the OP is...

And?

Knowing Mark Hall, he probably just found it interesting, and wanted to share.

Also, meh. Gogo mediocre showing 4e, better luck next year.

[KIDS]

This is the first time I heard about this reward, but I should check out some of its processes later.

[-Cor-]

Knowing Mark Hall, he probably just found it interesting, and wanted to share.

Yeah... I don't know him and was curious if this was supposed to be some commentary on the game that was a foregone conclusion to him, but in no way to me.

::shrug::

[Kurald Galain]

Nominated in 2, lost in 2. Wizards won some, but none for 4e.

I can't say that surprises me, not in the least - for the same reason that Teen Explosion-packed Action Movie #17 doesn't win an Oscar, regardless of how well it sells over the summer.

[Mando Knight]

I can't say that surprises me, not in the least - for the same reason that Teen Explosion-packed Action Movie #17 doesn't win an Oscar, regardless of how well it sells over the summer.

Well, the Oscars haven't been worth much ever since the 70s. The fact that The Return of the King is remarkable for being both a high-grossing and award-winning film should be a sign.

[Indon]

Well, were there a 'most carefully balanced RPG' category, I think it'd be in the running, but outside of that, 4th edition didn't exactly bring much to the table in terms of tabletop gaming. I'm not surprised a game with an entirely fresh setting came out on top.

[Tiki Snakes]

I've seen the mouse guard book before, and frankly, I'm surprised it won. The rules didn't seem to be anything special and the setting seemed to be nothing more than a bunch of Redwall fanfic stealthily avoiding copyright violations. Anyone have any experience with it who can explain why it won?

Edit: Apparently it's based on a relatively successful comic series. However, Redwall still predates it by almost 20 years.

[sarcasm]Psh. Redwall came out in, what, 86? Steamboat Willie came out in 28, man. Redwall. Total Mikey Mouse rip-off. Pushaw!
;) [/sarcasm]

From what I understand, isn't red-wall basically anthropomorphic animals-instead-of-people, havin good ol' generic fantasy-novel adventures?
Mouse Guard is not exactly like this, from what I'm told. Perhaps a bit more Musketeers, but also they are mouse sized mouse people, (Perhaps in some version of the real world?). Also, suprisingly gritty?

I'm not the best person to ask, admittedly, having read neither. :)

[erikun]

From what I understand, isn't red-wall basically anthropomorphic animals-instead-of-people, havin good ol' generic fantasy-novel adventures?
Mouse Guard is not exactly like this, from what I'm told. Perhaps a bit more Musketeers, but also they are mouse sized mouse people, (Perhaps in some version of the real world?). Also, suprisingly gritty?

You understand well, as Mouse Guard will be surprisingly violent if you're expecting Saturday morning cartoons. (The first book has one character eaten by a snake, and another killed by hungry crabs.) To be fair, Redwall gets just as bloody - with Redwall, though, you're pretty much guaranteed that the good guys are good, the bad guys are bad, and betrayal is rare at its worst.

Having read through the RPG, I rather like how it's setup. Most of the roles are simple, and it's easy to figure out what you'll need to roll. Sadly, my group is only interested in D&D 4e at the moment, so no Patrolling for me.

[Knaight]

They are both pretty bloody, although Mouse Guard is probably the grimmer and darker of the two series. And it is very, very different from Red Wall, and in my opinion better written. Animal as human characters are not highly original, you might as well claim that Redwall is a watered down Watership Down, since the author wasn't good enough to pull off full animals. That is an absurd claim.

[elliott20]

I tried mouseguard, and while I liked the game fine enough, I just felt like our characters just couldn't get a break, which I found rather amusing, to say the least.

Still, 4E not winning? meh, not too surprising to me.

[TheDarkOne]

Wow, Mouseguard is a real game! I thought it was just something the Full Frontal Nerdity guy made up for his comic.

[Myrmex]

My only response to the OP is...

And?

As far as Mouseguard goes, I haven't heard of it until now... I used to love the Redwall series of books by Brian Jacques (I think I'm spelling his name right), back when I was 12-14, but not sure it would really resonate with me now. Might have to look for this next time I'm in my local gaming store.

Come on, children's fantasy full of cutesy animals and obvious racial overtones? No, not even a little?

[Ninetail]

It would be more surprising if they had won anything.

I mean, "controversial new edition of game loses popularity contest" is almost up there with "water still wet" as far as headlines go.

[Asbestos]

Man, now I have to get Mouse Guard and GM rabbit riding mice. My gf has been bugging me to pick it up for a while, now if she gets wind of it winning an award she'll never let it go.

[Oblivious]

I don't find this surprising. 4e is attempting to reach new audiences who may have been turned off by some of the traditional trappings of roleplaying games. Of course, existing roleplayers like the existing trappings of roleplaying games, so a panel of old-school gamers aren't going to favor it.

[Panda-s1]

I don't find this surprising. 4e is attempting to reach new audiences who may have been turned off by some of the traditional trappings of roleplaying games. Of course, existing roleplayers like the existing trappings of roleplaying games, so a panel of old-school gamers aren't going to favor it.

Wait a second, that doesn't even make sense, 4e was beat by a completely new game. And for the record, I may not be an old school gamer, but I think 4e keeps plenty of trappings of roleplaying games (whatever these trappings may be, I dunno my D&D playing style hasn't changed a whole lot since converting).

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Wait a second, that doesn't even make sense, 4e was beat by a completely new game. And for the record, I may not be an old school gamer, but I think 4e keeps plenty of trappings of roleplaying games (whatever these trappings may be, I dunno my D&D playing style hasn't changed a whole lot since converting).

The new game isn't held to any particular standard, whereas when the judges see "4e D&D" on the cover they expect it to resemble 1e-3e D&D, which it does in many respects but not at all in others. The things that were removed from 4e are those "old-school trappings" and were exactly what made many people like D&D; remove those, and they're going to prefer something else.