Feat that lets you attack with both offhand and main weopon as standard

[oxinabox]

I found a feat somewhat that lets you attack with your of hand and your main once each as a standard action (rather than as a full), I think it was 3.0.

I've let one of my player have it, but i wish i new the exact text.

Currently I'm sayign make 2 attackrolls, and you off hand weopon takes an addtional -2 penatly.
But i think it might have been:
Make one attack roll at a -4 additional penalty, then apply both damage rolls.

I can't rremember where it was.
I know it exists cos one of the players said: "I think the feat does nothing." as he didn't know about the full round action requirement to make multiple attacks

[Morty]

Sounds like Dual Strike from Complete Adventurer, which lets you make a single attack with -4 penalty to strike with both your weapons. It's weak, though.

[Darwin]

Dual Strike lets you take a standard action to attack with a mainhand and offhand weapon with a -4 penalty. You roll a single attack roll using the lower of the two's attack bonus and roll damage for both weapons.

I wouldn't recommend it.

[Cyclocone]

Dual Strike lets you take a standard action to attack with a mainhand and offhand weapon with a -4 penalty. You roll a single attack roll using the lower of the two's attack bonus and roll damage for both weapons.

I wouldn't recommend it.

Heh, it's got even more restrictions than that.

BTW, it's available on Realmshelps here.

+1 on not recomending it.

[quick_comment]

Isnt there a tiger claw manevuer that does this?

[Burley]

There is a Tiger Claw maneuver that does this, Quick_Comment. It basically lets you do Flurry of Blows as a standard action.
But... Many people don't like that book...

[Eldariel]

Isnt there a tiger claw manevuer that does this?

Yes (Wolf Fang Strike), one of the trillion reasons ToB does TWF better. I personally combine the Dual Strike-ability (without extra penalties) to standard Two-Weapon Fighting feat (as I do with Improved and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting). This keeps Two-Weapon Fighting from sucking beyond all recognition for no reason.

[Talic]

Dual Strike has limited usefulness with the Weapon Style feats in complete warrior.

Still, subpar at best.

[Kaiyanwang]

Dual Strike has limited usefulness with the Weapon Style feats in complete warrior.

Still, subpar at best.

It's useful to solo rogue and ninja. Say you poison two weapons, and move (silently) and strike, maybe with ambush feats and daggers with "procs".

The point is two strike after any move. No reason to give such a big penalty, anyway.

And another reason for wich the TWF feats should be merged in groups of 3, as other combat feats, or some combat feats should be replaced with free synergies like OAdv (not so well realized) martial arts.

[oxinabox]

It's useful to solo rogue and ninja. Say you poison two weapons, and move (silently) and strike, maybe with ambush feats and daggers with "procs".

The point is two strike after any move. No reason to give such a big penalty, anyway.

Thing is TWF was a free be with the Dread priate class.
Which He's stacking on top of 7 levels of ninja class.
So when he can make all 4 of his stikes count as suprise - say bhy having the foe blinded.
in a full round action he does an extra 20d6 suprise damage.

But that's not a factor here.
What do you advise i subistitute for this feat to make it more fair.
IS what i'm doing currently any good?

as standard action make 2 attackrolls, and you off hand weopon takes an addtional -2 penatly.

He has TWF from class feature, Improved TWF as a feat.

[Riffington]

Give this free to TWF. No extra feat, no extra negatives (beyond the usual -2/-2).
It's a much-needed boost, and it won't break your game.

[Tokiko Mima]

If you were talking about unarmed strikes you might want to look at the Snap Kick feat from Tome of Battle. For a -2 to attack penalty, you get an extra attack at your highest bonus. You can do this with standard action attacks or full attack actions.

[Curmudgeon]

If you were talking about unarmed strikes you might want to look at the Snap Kick feat from Tome of Battle. For a -2 to attack penalty, you get an extra attack at your highest bonus. You can do this with standard action attacks or full attack actions.

Not just those. You get one unarmed attack whenever you make at least one melee attack. You can add one to an attack of opportunity, or to a bonus attack (such as the one you get from Improved Trip).

There are situations when this difference is important. Let's say you've got a dire flail and Steadfast Boots (Magic Item Compendium). Whenever you're carrying a two-handed weapon with these Boots you're treated as if you'd set it to receive a charge. (A dire flail isn't normally capable of being readied against a charge, so you're already ahead.) So you can trip the charger (before they attack) with your dire flail, then get the bonus attack from Improved Trip, then throw in your Snap Kick. Your -2 penalty for using Snap Kick is more than offset by the opponent's -4 to AC for being prone.

[oxinabox]

If you were talking about unarmed strikes you might want to look at the Snap Kick feat from Tome of Battle. For a -2 to attack penalty, you get an extra attack at your highest bonus. You can do this with standard action attacks or full attack actions.

I'm not.
With a katana (longsword) and a wizikashi (shortsword), i houseruled that the ninja class conferred proficiency with asian-aified versions of all martial swords.
I am, aware ninja's didn't use katana.|
also houserules that weopon finesse works for these swords (I don't see any proiblem mechanically changing the attack attribute, not when he still does only +1 dmg on his good hand)

Give this free to TWF. No extra feat, no extra negatives (beyond the usual -2/-2).
It's a much-needed boost, and it won't break your game.

Normally, I would agree that TWF needs more power, but he's stacking it with +5d6 suprise damage (read: sneak (-flanking) for ninja,).
Which means that in rounds where the opponante is denied dex for whole round (say flatfooted - hansn't acted yet)
he can unlease 4x5d6 =20d6 extra damage.

Does anyone else say i should give for free, without penality, making 2 attack rolls, to do two attacks? (as per OP bar penalties)

[lsfreak]

Depends on optimization.

Are your fighters spiked-chain trippers or uberchargers? Is ToB commonplace? Do you wizards stick to buffing and debuffing?

Or do your fighters use sheilds, your clerics heal in combat, and your wizards blast things with fire?

If it's the former, give him the whole TWF'ing thing for free (merge TWF/ITWF/GTWF/PTWF and Dual Strike into one feat). If it's the latter, merge TWF'ing with Dual Strike and keep the others separate, or drop it down to 2 feats instead of 3. For many of us on the boards, a rogue dropping 8d6+20 for 6 attacks in a row at level 10, and still being outdamaged, isn't out of place and we merge everything together.

[dariathalon]

One thing you seem to have missed is that this feat only confers precision damage once. Also, the feat only lets you attack with each weapon only once, no matter what your normal number of attacks is. So at most he'd be doing weapon damagex2 + 5d6.

[oxinabox]

Depends on optimization.

Are your fighters spiked-chain trippers or uberchargers? Is ToB commonplace? Do you wizards stick to buffing and debuffing?

Or do your fighters use sheilds, your clerics heal in combat, and your wizards blast things with fire?

my classes:
The fighter (lvl 9)is a Fullblade, dwarf bulked out str & con, wearing full addyplate.
He refused ToB, even with encouragement.
He's damaging solide 21 each round.

My Wizard, is actually a Wizard 3/Archivist 3/ Mystic Teurge 3.
SO he casts Wizards as if lvl 6 and All divine as if Lvl 6.
He is also the healer. routine damage for him is 3d6 (when he's not trying too hard).
He doesn't bluff, but i expect hi m to be doing alot of blinding for the ninja

The PC this thread is related to is: Ninja 7/Dread Pirate 2 (both Comp. Adv i think, maybe complete warrior). dread pirates automatically have TWF.

One thing you seem to have missed is that this feat only confers precision damage once. Also, the feat only lets you attack with each weapon only once, no matter what your normal number of attacks is. So at most he'd be doing weapon damagex2 + 5d6.

From the feat he is, the alternate feat i'm currently giving see op, is two seperate stikes.
and I was speaking to say that as far at TWF, in this game it's not under powered cos he's getting sneak attack damage with each hit (*during Flat footed rounds), and so I'm saying that it don't think it needs to be free.
which with TWF, ITWF and a 2 normal attacks comes to 4*5d6=sweat damages for someone with a str mod +1.

[Optimator]

This ability is one of those things that two-weapon fighting feats should've enabled all along.

[Hat-Trick]

Yet again, awesomeness in the form of the Pirating Ninja.

On topic, giving him two attacks as a standard should be alright, no problem. Houserule it and don't make him take the feat, so he can take something else.

[Vaynor]

I've always thought it was pretty ridiculous that Two-Weapon Fighting allows you to make 5+ attacks per round, but in half that time you can make only one.

[dariathalon]

Charging him a feat for what you're giving him doesn't seem too extreme to me.

If you wanted to give him two attacks w/o doubling the sudden strike, then charging a feat would be a little much.

[oxinabox]

Charging him a feat for what you're giving him doesn't seem too extreme to me.

If you wanted to give him two attacks w/o doubling the sudden strike, then charging a feat would be a little much.

I'm letting him make 2 attacks .'. doubleing the sudden stike, only when he can keep dex denied, eg feinting, or hiding (he has no hide in plain sight) will only let him have it on the first.
Blindess, Flat footesness and maybe PC's invisibility will let him do it on all.

[Yora]

a feat somewhat that lets you attack with your of hand and your main once each as a standard action

Just sway "homebrewed!" and you have it.

Two-Weapon fighting is considered rather weak, and it takes a full feat, of which everyone but a fighter has very few. Seems perfectly balanced to me.

[Riffington]

From the feat he is, the alternate feat i'm currently giving see op, is two seperate stikes.
and I was speaking to say that as far at TWF, in this game it's not under powered cos he's getting sneak attack damage with each hit (*during Flat footed rounds), and so I'm saying that it don't think it needs to be free.
which with TWF, ITWF and a 2 normal attacks comes to 4*5d6=sweat damages for someone with a str mod +1.

Oh, I was suggesting for free: As a standard action, attack with both weapons at the normal -2/-2. So that only comes to 2*5d6. Using more than that would take a full round action as usual.

[oxinabox]

Oh, I was suggesting for free: As a standard action, attack with both weapons at the normal -2/-2. So that only comes to 2*5d6. Using more than that would take a full round action as usual.

yeah i knew what you ment.

I beleive TWF is consider weak with the exception of when used by rogues.
I read a statistical analysis somewhere for that.

dunno.
he's spending 2 feats.
My homebrewed doublestrike + ITWF.
Which most people seem to be sayign i should have given him for free with his TWF class feature?

What would you suggest I let him have instead.
How do i do this without it looking unfair to the rest of the party, who have already seen him maul (he got lucky circumstances, the blind spell had a only 3 out of 20 chance of working, then again he can cast one round invisability 3/day as a free action, which means he can do this regually i think - total concealment denies dex for whole round)

[Riffington]

How do i do this without it looking unfair to the rest of the party

Give the fighter an awesome sword or something?
Your theurge is going to come into his own in a level. If he takes Practiced Spellcaster, he's going to be sitting pretty (depending how broken spells you've let him access, of course). The fighter is the one who needs help.

[Kaiyanwang]

Give the fighter an awesome sword or something?
Your theurge is going to come into his own in a level. If he takes Practiced Spellcaster, he's going to be sitting pretty (depending how broken spells you've let him access, of course). The fighter is the one who needs help.

Yeah, in my experience a good weapon and a special movement item is enough to fix a fighter, in a lot of campaigns. Even in epic.

Remember: deities made humanoids and deities made monstrous humanoids and giants, but Vorpal made them Equals*.


With few exception, say... Ettins.

[oxinabox]

I guided the fighter to the FUllblade 2d8 dmg. shown him addy full plate DR3/-.
he refuse ToB, what more can I do?

He;s much more powerful than the fighter i'm playing in another campaign. but that's not saying much, my fighter weilds daggers

[Riffington]

I guided the fighter to the FUllblade 2d8 dmg. shown him addy full plate DR3/-.
he refuse ToB, what more can I do?

Well, you don't have to do anything necessarily. Adamantium full plate is wonderful stuff. A fullblade is cool-looking (and way better than monkey grip for an oversize sword wielder), but hardly overpowered. Which means your fighter is weaker than what this board is used to, but that's not a problem.

I mean, your ninja has kind of a hard time getting his sudden strike set up. Right now it's 3/day plus situational.

Really the big question is your theurge. If you're giving him powerful spells, he's going to steal your show. If you don't, then your party is probably fairly balanced with your fighter...