Cheating players

[DJDizzy]

Hey, one player in my local group has decided to take spell focus on his divine spells aswell. But how should i tell him that he cant do that?

I'm not the DM

[AmberVael]

Hey, one player in my local group has decided to take spell focus on his divine spells aswell. But how should i tell him that he cant do that?

I'm not the DM

That's... not actually cheating?
You can use spell focus with any spells, as long as they fall into the school of magic you selected.

[Gaiyamato]

??

What exactly has he done?
Is he an Arcane/Divine multiclass caster with the Spell Focus feat?

If so the feat applies to both classes.
I am fairly sure that Spell focus is allowed for divine casters.

[erikun]

Spell Focus is for a specific school. You wouldn't take Spell Focus (Cleric), but you could take Spell Focus (Conjuration) and have it apply to your Clerical conjuration spells. (for whatever point that serves)

[Edit] +1 DC isn't the same as +1 Caster Level, or even +1 Spell Level. I can't think of many Cleric spells that would benefit, besides stuff like Flame Strike.

[DJDizzy]

He has taken spell focus divine, so according to him, it applies to all his divine spells

[Gaiyamato]

That is bollox.

Spell Focus () must apply to a school of magic. It cannot apply to a sub-school (normally) and it cannot apply to a magic type (arcane/divnine).

Tell him to pick a school else the feat does nothing at all.

[Haven]

Oh, it's easy, just read him the description of spell focus, point out that it's "schools" and divine is not a school of magic, and if he persists bring out a picture of Morbo and tell him "SPELL FOCUS DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY"~

[DJDizzy]

I just sent him a message and it seems the DM has given in. I shouldnt really complain because i got a familiar that gave me 2+ charisma and can cast the same spells as i can so i shouldnt really complain

I think i will be given the usual speech that i put too much emphasis on the rules bla bla bla at our gaming session tonight though

[DJDizzy]

Oh, it's easy, just read him the description of spell focus, point out that it's "schools" and divine is not a school of magic, and if he persists bring out a picture of Morbo and tell him "SPELL FOCUS DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY"~

Oh i have tried that with a variety of different things, but my DM does not understand it. And i am afraid that if i push things to hard, I will get kicked out of the group.

[lsfreak]

I just sent him a message and it seems the DM has given in. I shouldnt really complain because i got a familiar that gave me 2+ charisma and can cast the same spells as i can so i shouldnt really complain

Erm... yea, you shouldn't complain. +1DC to a fraction of useful cleric spells is nothing compared to this.

[Alteran]

Oh i have tried that with a variety of different things, but my DM does not understand it. And i am afraid that if i push things to hard, I will get kicked out of the group.

Whether or not you're in the right here, that's pretty ridiculous. A DM's job is to make the game enjoyable for all players. If you can't question him without getting kicked from the group, it might be worthwhile to look for another group to play with.

Although with regards to the DM bending the rules for this player, it sounds like he bent them even more for you. I wouldn't cause rule disputes if you've benefited from even bigger rule "changes".

[DJDizzy]

I have no problems when the DM changes it, but when a player takes a feat without the knowledge of the DM and then persuades him that is how its supposed to work, it ticks me off. Might just be me and the fact that i am autistic.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

One-up him by taking Ability Focus (in the Monster Manual) for your 'spellcasting' special attack.

[DJDizzy]

Heh, he only allows core though, which somewhat limits me as a sorcerer

[quick_comment]

Heh, he only allows core though, which somewhat limits me as a sorcerer

The monster manual IS core.

Edit: Core= PHB, DMG, MMI.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Your DM seems prone to giving players whatever they want, based on this and your ridicufamiliar. If you still like playing with this group, I suggest just sitting back and enjoying the Monty Haul.

[DJDizzy]

I didnt really want my familiar that powerfull, I only wanted a psedudragon with no real combat capabilites for RP purposes, but i cant really give it back, for fear of disrupting roleplaying.

And there arent any other groups that i know off in my area of living.

[erikun]

I just sent him a message and it seems the DM has given in. I shouldnt really complain because i got a familiar that gave me 2+ charisma and can cast the same spells as i can so i shouldnt really complain

I think i will be given the usual speech that i put too much emphasis on the rules bla bla bla at our gaming session tonight though

I would say go with it. We can only tell you what the rules say. It sounds like your group is more interested in "fun stuff" rather than applying the rules literally, so don't worry so much about it.

[Tallis]

Just out of curiosity did your DM allow him to take spell focus:arcane as well?

I'm guessing your DM is fairly new at it, hopefully he'll learn. If not the campaign is likely to fall apart fairly quickly when he gives the players too much power and he can no longer challenge them. I say if you can't convince him to tone it down just relax and roll with it, enjoy taking over the world while it lasts.

[Talon Sky]

I tend to let my players become overpowered by giving them what they want....or what I know they'll like....too. Once, I let my friend playing a rogue find a pair of +10 daggers to wield.

You know my solution when they become too strong? Just upping the CR of the monsters. ;p

[Random832]

You know my solution when they become too strong? Just upping the CR of the monsters. ;p

Give them XP penalties or they level up too fast - basically they should earn XP as if the monsters are a lower CR than they actually are, because they're fighting them with too good equipment.

[hewhosaysfish]

Could you take Weapon Focus (Martial Weapons)?

[Coidzor]

Heh... and here I was expecting some kind of discussion of weighted polyhedrons...

...or of someone trying to learn to nat 20 on command. ...and having a reasonable success rate such that it couldn't be dismissed as insignificant.

[Vaynor]

Heh... and here I was expecting some kind of discussion of weighted polyhedrons...

...or of someone trying to learn to nat 20 on command. ...and having a reasonable success rate such that it couldn't be dismissed as insignificant.

That's what I was thinking, something to do with dice rolling. However, if someone manages to command a nat 20, we may just have to resort to electronic dice. I don't think the game would be very balanced when everything rolls an automatic hit.

[KIDS]

I've also played with some cheating people. Over time I learned to just let it go because any attempt to make them stop was met with outright hostility or DM's complacement, and eventually the cheating player's outbursts caused the game to crash. Sad, but if I had brought up the issues loudly, it would have happened even faster.

[Burley]

Y'know... I'm willing to guess that the player in question actually took Spell Focus (Divination) and doesn't understand the difference between Divine and Divination.

[ColonelFuster]

As a sorcerer with a +2 bonus to Charisma, you are gaining the +1 to the DCs of your spells, as if you took spell focus (arcane). Your DM might actually be balancing things- I know i've let stranger things fly in my games.

[AmberVael]

Y'know... I'm willing to guess that the player in question actually took Spell Focus (Divination) and doesn't understand the difference between Divine and Divination.

My bet is that they looked at the Cleric spell list (not the actual cleric spells) and saw that it wasn't divided up by schools like the Wizard/Sorcerer list was.
It caused some confusion for me too, at first.

[Indon]

I would say go with it. We can only tell you what the rules say. It sounds like your group is more interested in "fun stuff" rather than applying the rules literally, so don't worry so much about it.

This.

You appear to have stumbled into a D&D campaign governed more strongly by Rule of Cool than by anything written in a book. Use this fact to do awesome things - as a Sorceror, I'd probably focus on inventing new spells to cast with that awesomeness factor.

[Burley]

Also, something I've been thinkin': I'm assuming this player has a loose grasp of the rules, and therefore will have a loose grasp on which spells are strongest. There will most likely be a lot of divine blasting and healing, neither of which have anything useful as far as save DCs.
The good spells (save-or-suck/save-or-die) will probably get neglected.