Death god, writing down names?

[Quietus]

In the process of working on my campaign world, I've come up with an idea related to this - a deity who records the names of everyone who lives, and everyone who dies; Obviously, the idea needs to be fleshed out a little more to see if I want to pursue it. My thing is, I KNOW I've heard of something like this before in mythology, and want to avoid ripping off things that exist if at all possible.

So, my question is this : Does anyone know where the inspiration for this idea came to me from?

[quick_comment]

Jewish mythology holds that god writes the name of everyone who will live and die in the coming year shortly after new years into a big book.

[Nerd-o-rama]

That's pretty much exactly what one of the Guilds in Planescape does. The concept of a Book of the Dead goes back to Hollywood ideas about Ancient Egypt, but in reality it was more of a guidebook to funerary rites.

Pretty sure there's at least one D&D god based on Hollywood Egypt that does this as well. Kelemvor, maybe?

[Haven]

First thing this makes me think of is Death Note.

[dragoonsgone]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Life

[Quietus]

Wow, awesome fast responses, thanks so far guys!

That's pretty much exactly what one of the Guilds in Planescape does. The concept of a Book of the Dead goes back to Hollywood ideas about Ancient Egypt, but in reality it was more of a guidebook to funerary rites.

Pretty sure there's at least one D&D god based on Hollywood Egypt that does this as well. Kelemvor, maybe?

I'll have to look into that, make sure I'm not ripping off WotC's deities either.

Jewish mythology holds that god writes the name of everyone who will live and die in the coming year shortly after new years into a big book.

... I'm fairly sure that's not where I heard it, but that's fantastic. My best friend is converting to Judaism right now, and his girlfriend has been Jewish as long as I knew her. I may have to ask them about this.. I don't mind taking inspiration from existing mythology, I just want to avoid ripping it off wholesale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Life

THAT'S what I've been hunting for online with failed google-fu! You, sir, win additional thanks. And a cookie.

[Fri]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azrael

Michael is awesome and all and all, but Azrael is badass. He's the judeo-christian-islamic angel of death.

In Muslim theology, Azrael is the Angel of Death who is "forever writing in a large book and forever erasing what he writes: what he writes is the birth of man, what he erases is the name of the man at death."

Azrael, also known as Izra'il, one of the four Archangels of Islam (Mikhail, Djibril, and Israfil), is pictured as having gigantic proportions: one foot rests in either the forth or the seventh heaven, while the other is on the bridge between hell and paradise. Supposedly Azrael brought God a handful of earth from which to create Adam and therefore earned his title as the Angel of Death. Izra'il keeps a roll of humanity, on which the names of the damned are circle in black and the names of the blessed, in light. When a person's day of death approaches, a leaf with the person's name on it falls from the tree beneath God's throne. After forty days have passed, Izra'il must sever the individual's soul from his or her body.

Azrael will be the last to die, but will do so at the second trump of the Archangel. He is the angel who accompanies your soul to Heaven.

The phrase 'the Wings of Azrael' refers to the approach of death; the signs of death coming on the dying.

I also remember reading some mythology where he's pictured with unlimited eyes, each for every living person. It'll only close when the corresponding person is dead.

[Quietus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azrael

Michael is awesome and all and all, but Azrael is badass. He's the judeo-christian-islamic angel of death.



I also remember reading some mythology where he's pictured with unlimited eyes, each for every living person. It'll only close when the corresponding person is dead.

Yeah, almost all of the archangels provide interesting reading, in fact. Unfortunately, the campaign world I'm working on has a heavy emphasis on elemental/primal forces over heavenly/infernal, so I'm going to avoid angelic symbolism.


That all being said, I think I've found a way to avoid outright ripping off any particular mythology, while giving this god - who, I think, is going to be wound together to be a Nature + Death god, representing the "circle of life" idea - a distinct feel that I've never encountered before.

Thanks again guys, my google-fu was weak tonight, and you helped me pull through!

[Serpentine]

Doesn't the Death of Discworld have a book - or was it a library? - that wrote in the stories of every person's life?

[Coidzor]

Are you familiar with Discworld? I can't remember what book exactly it is, but in one of them pertaining to Death it goes into the fact that he 1. has life-timers for all living beings in a great, infinite, non-euclidean hall, and 2. has an archive/library of similar non-human spacial proportions which contains records of the lives of at least all sapient creatures in media/fashions that suit the writing/recording technology of the lifetimes of the deceased, stretching on so far into the past as to reach obscurity and beyond.

I believe it's either Hogfather or Soul Music, one of the books where his granddaughter takes over for him.

I think in this set up they pretty much take care of themselves and Death just has to personally oversee a token proportion in order to keep the cogs turning and so on.

And Ninja'd due to the length of time I spent on my response...

[Myrmex]

Santa Claus?

[Coidzor]

Santa Claus?

Oh god. That's perfect! WeeJas and Santa have a kid.

[Quietus]

Oh god. That's perfect! WeeJas and Santa have a kid.

... Nothing good can come from this.


Also, thanks for the information on Discworld, I've never read any of those books. This, however, is a record of names - True Names, specifically - rather than their entire life's story.

[Fan]

Oh god. That's perfect! WeeJas and Santa have a kid.

Would this be accurate?

[Dixieboy]

That's pretty much exactly what one of the Guilds in Planescape does. The concept of a Book of the Dead goes back to Hollywood ideas about Ancient Egypt, but in reality it was more of a guidebook to funerary rites.

Pretty sure there's at least one D&D god based on Hollywood Egypt that does this as well. Kelemvor, maybe?

Jergal is the scribe of death.
You die?
His clergy writes it down.

The guildies call themselves "Dustmen"

[Nerd-o-rama]

Jergal is the scribe of death.
You die?
His clergy writes it down.

The guildies call themselves "Dustmen"

Ah yes, those are the ones I was thinking of, thank you.

[Worira]

"Dude! You're dead! I totally already wrote it down! Get back to your slab!"

[quick_comment]

Having an actual writing down of names WILL get your players to try to steal it and/or write the BBEG's name in it and/or erase the names of dead party members.

I would make death like the death organization in irregular webcomic.

[Zeful]

Having an actual writing down of names WILL get your players to try to steal it and/or write the BBEG's name in it and/or erase the names of dead party members.

I would make death like the death organization in irregular webcomic.

Right. Steal the Big Book of Names from the god of death/ his right hand. That's smart.

[Coidzor]

Nah, better to distract them and autohypnosis some useful truenames for various purposes nefarious.

...I can't recall what can be done with truenames, since truenamers are broken. Vestige-shenanigans?

[quick_comment]

Right. Steal the Big Book of Names from the god of death/ his right hand. That's smart.

Sure, why not? Mythology is full of people doing things like that. Sisphyius chained death up and refused to let him go one time.

[Dixieboy]

"Dude! You're dead! I totally already wrote it down! Get back to your slab!"

That scenario is featured in Planescape: Torment

[Fishy]

Nah, better to distract them and autohypnosis some useful truenames for various purposes nefarious.

...I can't recall what can be done with truenames, since truenamers are broken. Vestige-shenanigans?

Summoning, mostly. A Fiendbinder can use them to... Well, bind fiends. Also it's useful to know a Truename if you want to remove someone from the fabric of existence.

[Quietus]

Sure, why not? Mythology is full of people doing things like that. Sisphyius chained death up and refused to let him go one time.

Is it bad that I read that as Syphilis at first?


As to them trying to steal the "book" : Good luck. Having folded the nature and death gods into a single "cycle of life" type God, I've turned the god himself into a physical representation of the tree of life. The true names of all living creatures are inscribed on his bark, and when they die, those names vanish, only reappearing on his roots when the body has been properly buried. In that in-between state, it's as though the person doesn't truly exist, and their soul can't move on to their proper reward. This means that creating Undead is truly an Evil act, because you are actively preventing the soul of the corpse used from moving on to its final resting place.

It also makes it very difficult to steal the "book".

Of course, this is a brainstormed idea that I'll be running by my friends to make sure it sounds interesting.. but so far, I like it.

Other implications involve things like : Resurrection spells requiring diamonds in order to work, because diamonds are a sort of "perfected Earth", so sprinkling diamond dust over a corpse is similar to symbolically burying it. This allows its name to reappear on the tree's roots, so that you may call that soul back.

Since Undead have no place on this tree, it's as though their names have been wiped from existence; In that way, you can't manipulate undead via their true names. As for what exactly a true name is capable of, I know that I want to include a Dominate effect in there - if you know (and use) a person's True Name, they can't deny anything you ask of them. This can be a very dangerous tool, depending on who gets hold of said name..

[Serpentine]

I really like this idea, I think. Couple of questions though: Does this tree-god have a conciousness? And if it's a "cycle of life" sort of god, does that include animals and the like? If so, what does "burial" constitute for them?

[Zeful]

Sure, why not? Mythology is full of people doing things like that. Sisphyius chained death up and refused to let him go one time.

Because most death gods could easily kill all non-epic parties. It might also be bigger than the characters (since a god could increase his size).

[Serpentine]

To be fair, there is a history of stealing from death gods...

[Eldan]

What about cultures that don't bury their dead, but, let's say burn them? Can you find something that is similarly "perfected fire" for them, or do they use the same rituals?

[Coidzor]

What about cultures that don't bury their dead, but, let's say burn them? Can you find something that is similarly "perfected fire" for them, or do they use the same rituals?

I'd say it probably just means appropriate funerary rites. With natural occurring undead usually being more the kind of the whole "Hey, I haven't been buried properly, you mortals better get to work on that or I'm-a get worse" variety than the "I'm a wightocalypse now," with necromancers experimenting with this and developing ways to create new forms of more controllable undead than the naturally occurring ghost and wraith/wight varieties...

[Quietus]

I'd say it probably just means appropriate funerary rites. With natural occurring undead usually being more the kind of the whole "Hey, I haven't been buried properly, you mortals better get to work on that or I'm-a get worse" variety than the "I'm a wightocalypse now," with necromancers experimenting with this and developing ways to create new forms of more controllable undead than the naturally occurring ghost and wraith/wight varieties...

Precisely this. A lot of the real-world myths regarding undead that I know of involve improper burial, this ties that into the whole "Undead aren't on the tree" thing nicely.

In the case of cultures who don't bury their dead, there would be appropriate funeral rites; Cremation of the body would count, and as far as animals go, generally being consumed would be enough.

As to whether or not it has a consciousness; I'm still not certain on that. On the one hand, I could say yes, have it be conscious, and act through intermediaries/followers who tend the tree itself... or I could have the tree be divine but without an actual consciousness, and tended to by lesser divine creatures. I have to put some further thought into the idea and flesh it out a little more, with that regard.