Help me a little, DMs in the Playgound?

[ColonelFuster]

I have an unusual request for the DMitp.

If you have been in any of my games, or seen them on the forums, you would notice that I like to take 1st level characters and watch them blossom into heroes. I also specialize in not getting mad at people who don't know everything in the rules (I plan on being a teacher someday- this is probably a good trait to have.)

I am doing yet another first-level game IRL and have an unusual case on my hands; a couple of players who have not played D&D- but have played World of Warcraft. I wish to know whether there are similarities I can capatalize on, and whether there are things I should know in advance?

If there are similarities, I may start with those (in the first encounters) and then totally subvert it, knocking them out with "new" kinds of experiences.

The thing that comes to mind most readily is rolling for skill checks; if my over-the-shoulder view of WOW is correct, there is no such thing. Capatalizing on these is not a good idea, though, because taking ten is often the best way to do things! Argh!

So, can you help me out, friends? Dedicated WOWers are especially welcome.

tl;dr compare/contrast D&D and WOW

[Garian]

I don't play WoW but I have a few close friends who do. The only thing I can say for certain is they will be expecting a hack and slash game. WoW has its moments but you need to introduce the full potential and creativity of table top rpgs like D&D. Do you know much about D&D 4.0? Its much more similar to WoW then 3.5.

[kamikasei]

I take it you play 3.5 rather than 4e?

[FoE]

Here's some tips to make your WoW players feel more at home:

1) Some of their earliest quests should involve hunting and killing a certain number of beasts to collect their tusks, hooves, tongues, asses, etc. Never give out the logical number of said items you would get from killing a certain beast. For example, you should be able to take only one hoof from every dead zebra.

2) Occasionally, they should cross paths with a higher-level character that should berate them over their current equipment. Liberal use of the term "lol no0b" is recommended.

3) Let the players know that they can get sweet items and loot in exchange for RL money. Arrange these deals through a nameless NPC who approaches the party speaking in broken English. "u pay US $$$ =epic mount"

[Melamoto]

If they played WoW quite a bit, they will be used to fight, kill, loot items. Try not to give too much to them in the way of loot, but they'll find it interesting. Although they will understand not getting much proper loot at the start of the game.

Like another poster said, after the first few levels, try to run them through a non-combat scenario. It will be needed to help them get used to the fact that in D&D there is a proper world going on around them, and they are not the heroes who fight their way to the top and become all powerful.



[Disclaimer]Do not take seriously the advice of Face of Evil. It is entirely humorous in nature and does not contain genuine advice. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

[TSED]

Letting them actually make a difference in the world will blow their minds.

Seriously.


Also: They will be used to 'grinding.' In MMOs, oftentimes the best way to do things is to set up a camp (or be prepared to have a mobile camp) and mow through static, respawning creatures for XP. If they ever seem to be preparing to take on lots of relatively non-trivial creatures, sound the horn to inform them they're on the Plot Rails Express.

[The Flyin' Lion]

I have played Wow a lot (just finished Molten Core before posting this), and D&D a very little bit. One of the things I constantly find annoyance in (and I assume your players will too) is that not all monsters have loot worth taking. In Wow, even minions at least drop items that will sell for money; subvert this on them.

Also, have a quest where they actually have to seek out something, instead of just checking the minimap for where to go. That will train them to use some skills, making a good segway int other skills.

[Harperfan7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXlskUxlI7E

DMs', ASSEMBLE!

[ColonelFuster]

To answer your question, yes, I do play 3.5 exclusively.

Face of evil, I think that you have just made a sidequest for me. That would be a great use for one of the high-level NPCs that I always have annoying my players, and getting onlyy one salvagable head from a hydra- meaning they have to fight two more- would invoke an impossible-to-describe amount of facepalm power.

So here are the suggestions, as I understand them.

1) Don't have everything drop loot- though frustrating, it adds to realism.
2) Run them through a non-combat scenario after they're done learning the rules.
3)There needs to be a real world going on around them that they can affect and interact with.
4)Have an adventure where they actively have to find a site or encounter area, rather than just saying, "I go to the Castle Northunderbark."

[Mo_the_Hawked]

One word. TRAPS.

I've played WoW, still can't stand it, I would think the idea of a treasure chest with some sort of trap would just boggle their minds. Also puzzles and riddles. Oh, and don't forget TRAPS! Muahahaha!

[kjones]

NPCs are a must. In most MMOs, NPCs are just quest-givers and merchants. Show them that in D&D, they can be actual people (so to speak).

Oh, you wanted similarities... um... killing things and taking their stuff?

[Telonius]

To add to all of this advice ... make it clear to them that you're going to do (x) beforehand. You'll get more grief if their expectations aren't met, than if you manage their expectations before the fact.

[SnowballMan]

If you really want to blow their mind. Have the first "quest" be to stop pillaging orc/goblin/insert-stereo-typical-evil-creature-here from terrorizing a small village. Halfway through the hack fest, let them discover that the fore mentioned creatures actually had the first claim on the resource being pillaged. They are starving/dying/can't breed with out it. They also now have a number of young who will never see one or more parents again do to the stream of adventures come to "Wipe out this wretched evil." Then have them deal with the moral implications of what they just did.

Alternatively, have the first session be political in nature, with little to no physical conflict. Ideally set it up to show the role playing aspects and how skill checks work. Afterward, ask them what they liked versus WoW and then build the campaign around the input.

[Thajocoth]

I play 4E now, and I've quit WoW thrice... (For good this time, I swear!)

Also, when I played WoW (the 2nd & 3rd times) I played on RP servers. (The first time I played WoW there were no RP servers.)

The similarities:
* There are abilities you get each level
* Standard group size is 5 people.
* Every party needs a Controller / Crowd Control, Leader / Healer, Defender / Tank and a Striker / Damage Dealer with a bonus slot for a 5th person.
* Monsters are arranged in encounter sized groups.
* You gain XP based on defeating monsters and completing quests, which you then use to level up.

The differences:
* Less good player to player RP interaction in WoW. I had a lot more than is normal, being on an RP server, but it was still FAR less than in D&D.
* You cannot EVER think outside the box. There is simply a right way to do things.
* The world is set. Things cannot be magically more interesting somewhere because you're there. You run out of quests in an area and you simply must move on.
* There are regions well beyond your level and others well below it. Questing in either is tedious and/or boring.
* Items require your level to be at least a certain number to equip them.
* When you die, you come back in about 15 seconds with no penalties except for some additional wear and tear on your clothing.
* In WoW quests are the primary way to gain XP with monster XP being just a nice small bonus. In D&D the reverse is usually true.
* The WoW economy crashed due to farming and the selling of gold.
* WoW focuses more on solo play with occasional groups. Solo quests are usually fairly short while a group quest will take a few consecutive hours to complete.
* In WoW, you generally do several quests at once. One person might want you to kill 50 yetis, while another wants 15 yeti hides and a 3rd wants an item in the cave all the yetis are in, for example.
* Quests in WoW often involve random killing or collecting, which is honestly kinda boring. They give you good story reasons... But still...

And yet... I miss it.

You can see though that they're VERY VERY different.

[ColonelFuster]

1) Don't have everything drop loot- though frustrating, it adds to realism.
2) Run them through a non-combat scenario after they're done learning the rules.
3) There needs to be a real world going on around them that they can affect and interact with.
4) Have an adventure where they actively have to find a site or encounter area, rather than just saying, "I go to the Castle Northunderbark."
5) TRAPS are a must.
6) Lifelike NPCs with real motivations
7) "Usually evil" creatures have feelings, too.
8) Player Input

I need a mere 2 more peices of advice, and my top ten list will be complete! BWAHAHAHA!
I must comment that #s 3, 5, 6 and 7 are sort of trademarks of mine. I'll have to work on the other half, though.

[Jade_Tarem]

Ghrkk!

As someone who has played quite a bit of both (I quit WoW more than a year ago, but I think my experiences are still valid) I think the current line of discussion is barking up the wrong tree. DnD can't do WoW better than WoW does - if you start them grinding and doing fetch quests, then they're going to get bored and frustrated fast, because you will never, ever be able to pace the action and imagery as quickly as the computer, server jokes notwithstanding.

If you want to hook them on DnD, then show them the things they can do in DnD that cannot be replicated in WoW at all. Traps and skill checks are a good start, dialogue is another good one - mute, bobble-headed heroes are for CRPGs and MMOs, have your PCs talk to each other and the NPCs! Stress a coherent storyline - someone is out to do something, and the PCs should care enough to do something about it. Allow clues to lead to other clues, but be sure that they follow a logical progression - don't take the WoW path of sending them all over the world just for the sake of making the quest take longer.

Vendors (and don't call them vendors) should not want to buy random animal parts, and the wrong kinds of vendors should not take random junk that they can't possibly sell again. In fact, the PCs probably shouldn't spend too much time thinking about vendors, crafting (unless they really want to craft something) or trading unless that's part of your game. And of course, you should shoot the first player to ask about the auction house, and hopefully the rest of the players will catch on.

Death is bad in DnD. Not so in WoW! Resurrection happens for free every thirty seconds because "It is not yet your time." In your game, any players looking to go kamikaze should be thanked for their heroic sacrifice and asked to roll a new character.

Mounts should not cost roughly the GDP of a sub-Saharan country. They are, in fact, quite cheap on a hero's budget.

Magic is a big one. In WoW (and 4e) magic = blow s*** up, inflict status effect, or restore hit points, and nothing else. Well, there is a teleport, but it's pretty limited. In 3.5, magic is a massive (ok, bloated) system with nigh-infinite possiblities. Let them explore a bit - the part where they can try to fly at level 5 is going to make heads spin.

Finally, freedom. WoW is a game that only provides the illusion of freedom, and badly at that. In WoW, you follow a strict and very boring routine - find the NPCs with golden, glowing exclamation marks over their heads, find out what they want you to do, go do it, rinse and repeat ad nauseum. The only break in the monotony is for PvP, which you can't replicate in DnD very well, and raids, which you also can't replicate very well. There is no imagination or creativity in the fulfillment of these quests - alternate approaches to the target are completely unworkable, usually by the way the landscape is laid out, forcing you to grind your way through faceless minions 1 through 33 before you finally fight the dude with the gold dragon around his portrait. In world travel, shortcuts are unavailable, because even if you find one you'll usually hit an invisible wall or suddenly find monsters several times your level, put there by programmers to punish you for trying to go from point A to point B in a straight line instead of a Mobius strip, or wherever the heck you were supposed to go (fighting your way through faceless minions 34 through 785). Your WoW players will be used to being punished for displaying any ingenuity, so it may take you some time and lots of theraputic rewards for creative audacity to stop them from twitching every time they want to do something awesome. Do they want to hijack an airship? Let them fight it out and take it over, which is something not even remotely possible in WoW. Do they want to try stealing from the dragon without having to kill it first? Let 'em give it a go. Gordian's knot is your friend.

That's about it. Like I said, using DnD to replicate any part of WoW is a bad idea, at least from my perspective, which is why I'm not a huge fan of 4e (yes, I had to take the shot). Let them see the high points of DnD. Make battles descriptive and engaging - WoW has the floating, disembodied numbers bit covered. That ranger didn't just attack, he started twirling with his blades alternating high and low, looking to get past his opponent's guard. That sorcerer didn't do X damage, he incinerated a dozen goblins!

I hope that helps.

Edit: Double ninja'd! Oh well.

[Twilight Jack]

My first recommendation is to subvert their expectations subtly. They're expecting all monsters to drop loot. Okay, great. Make sure that the first critters they get to stab in the face have some. Quite a bit, in fact. A standard goblin warrior should possess the following: a melee weapon of some kind (clubs and blunt morningstars are standard), a knife, a javelin or two (perhaps), some ratty leather armor, a sack with a few knick knacks (perhaps some dice carved from animal bones, a few crude tools, a few battered copper coins, some dried meat of ambiguous source, and a couple turnips for lunch).

The weapons and armor are all in poor repair and sized for goblins. The bone dice are crudely carved and don't roll fairly. The tools are of the sort that an unskilled farmer could build for himself in a day (and sized for goblins), the meat and turnips are a bit past their prime.

Now, the critters have indeed "dropped loot." Since it's the first time for these folks with D&D, create a bit of a scene wherein the characters pick over the bodies to find everything. Now they've got a bunch of crap to take with them, just as they expected.

Problem is, no one is going to want to buy it, at any price. Maybe, maybe, some halfling dirt farmer might be willing to trade the morningstar or the knife for a night sleeping in his barn, but everything else is utterly worthless. The party tries to sell it to the local mercantile (the way everything is salable in WoW) and the merchant is utterly insulted by their audacity in thinking that he would be interested in "goblin leavings."

Now they've been subverted. Not only is the majority of their "loot" utterly without value, but they've been introduced to the notion that the local merchant is enough of a real person to be insulted by their assumption that he'd buy whatever crap they dragged back.

Update: Oh, and +1 to Tarem Jade's suggestions. I still stand by my own, but he gives a far more detailed framework of what to do from there.

[ColonelFuster]

1) Don't have everything drop loot- though frustrating, it adds to realism. (1a- If lesser monsters do drop loot, it's not worth anything.)
2) Run them through a non-combat scenario after they're done learning the rules.
3) There needs to be a real world going on around them that they can affect and interact with. (3a- death is actually a big deal)
4) Have an adventure where they actively have to find a site or encounter area, rather than just saying, "I go to the Castle Northunderbark."
5) TRAPS are a must.
6) Lifelike NPCs with real motivations (6a (villians)- Coherent storyline- "someone is out to do something, and you should care enough to stop it") (6b (merchants)- A merchant will feel insulted if someone tries to sell them sub-par loot that they obviously can't sell back)
7) "Usually evil" creatures have feelings, too.
8) Player Input

[Cleverdan22]

I'm going to agree with Jack and Jade. Make the experience different. I have a couple of players in my party who love WoW to death, but were wholly excited when they learned that DnD isn't like WoW and of all the things they could do here that they couldn't do there.

[oxybe]

similarities?

the focus on "the party"

while wow can be played solo, it's best played as a group game with close friends or a great guild. i used to play WoW on and off, but only when i know my friends are playing. only one of them has his account going right now, so i haven't logged into it for a while now.

try to put as much focus on the group dynamic and working as a team. i was lucky to be playing with my D&D group so we were quite used to this. i scouted invisibly, sapped, drew attention away from the group, our tanks ran in and got the suprise, i picked my shanks, the shaman kept us up, ect...

give puzzles/traps and encounters that make the party work together: the fighter has to hold back the monster while the rogue attempts to open the door so the party can escape. the cleric has to keep the wizard alive while he channels his magic into the [plot device]. wow players (at least the ones i know, even only trough WoW) know the result of teamwork

the kill monster > get item > kill bigger monster > get better item.

phat lewts is fun to have. give them something shiny every now and then and they'll love you for it.

that doesn't mean it has to be a +5 sword of overcompensation. one thing i really loved in WoW is engineering. making gadgets like robotic squirrels that did nothing but follow you around, or silly looking dummies that wobbled left and right, waving it's hand.

the players will hint to you (sometimes unconsciously, subtly or directly) what kind of stuff they like... so let them have it. if one of them is really into creating stuff like alchemy, let him find a recipe for a more explosive version of alchemist's fire, one that burns longer, ect...

if one of them shows interest in tacky folk art, give them the tackiest "driftwood fish sculpture that could also be a mermaid if you squint your eyes" that you can.

don't be afraid to open a pseudo-magic mart every now and then. while i'm not advocating full access to every item, giving them the option to buy items (or place an order) they would actually want to use is something to consider.

it doesn't have to even be a "magic mart". it could be a group of githyanki traders planehopping and bringing magical gear from wherever... if they don't have your thing give them a deposit (money and a personal item to track you), they'll give you a proof of purchase/order and they'll have one of their own deliver it later when found/crafted and collect the rest of the money and give you your item back.

but please... don't litter the ground with crud magic items/"vendor trash".

(at least when i GM) no random monsters.

when i played WoW i was a rogue... a sneaky undead bastard. why?
A) it's fun shanking gnomes with daggers
B) i can see the critters and avoid them

dropping a random monster on them might cause them to question why they didn't see it or were unable to avoid it. if there is a combat or encounter while traveling, it's better to have it "scheduled" and let the players decide how to approach it unless it has a darn good reason to sneak up on them.

it's also generally better for pacing if the GM knows what's going on

speaking of traveling...

-if you're gonna have to walk, make it interesting.

i don't like car rides or bus rides. i can only take so much "oh look, another wheat field. hey more cows" so long before i fall asleep and someone wakes me up. if you're going to make travel important, have something interesting for the players to camp out in/explore... an old ruin (Parthenon, tower, village), a weird geological formation (Stonehenge, skull shaped cave), something that just stands out (a gnome looking depressed by a smoldering pile of debris in a field).

having different "areas" is also a great way to shake things up. one thing i loved about WoW is how different the areas were: you had your lush jungle, your borean tundra, your temperate forest, a haunted forest, your dying land, a "lost world", an alien landscape, a fantasy forest, your "typical european land", the desert area, ect... it didn't always mesh well, but it served to change things up every now and then.

if all the players are going to be doing is traveling through "generic european land" with no interesting landmarks or events, use the "Taxi" service. now, i don't mean just throw them on a gryphon and send them flying, but do a time skip.

although a gryphon taxi service would be different.

Aiding access to previous areas

one thing that i liked about WoW is that you had an easy enough access to areas you've already been to, and you usually had reason to revisit them every now and then. in lower levels you relied on the transcontinental flying services, and later your own flying mount and even teleportation in some form at all levels in the game.

in a game like D&D this is (IMO) paramount to a good experience. many times characters will eventually want lay down some sort of roots if they get a liking to a place. they'll buy a house, be part of a guild, be "live in" go-fer's, ect... generally want access to a place to put their feet up and create a "life" for their character. without the ability to stay connected with NPCs they'll grow disinterested.

mages want libraries and laboratories, fighters want training area (training dummies, archery targets, obstacle course, ect) and a smithy, rogues want a safe-house and gadget shop, clerics want a shrine/temple and place to do their service, ect... give them some place to do their thing and lay some roots down.

while not as personalized in WoW, i did have my own little area i loved hanging out in. it wasn't crowded, it had all i "needed" (food & drink), had all the basics for my crafting (until i grew to the really high crafting)... it was as quaint as it gets in WoW.

[Tyrmatt]

Just a wild notion, but dig through the Warcraft III and World of Warcraft setting books for 3.5. While they're not well balanced (e.g. in the first book, the Forsaken are just insane. Our DM let us play them then realized that we couldn't be mind-controlled, feared, nauseated, harmed with evil energies, frozen or any number of common attacks. Oh and no CON score so we could drink poison basically.) They've got some settings that at the very least, follow 3.5 rules to a degree and thus can be tailored to fit a standard environment and are suitably epic in nature. Also pick over the Wowwiki website for info on dungeons and incorporate familiar elements from into the places you design. Make fights dynamic and varied by introducing environmental factors and changing circumstances.

Oh and a point of consternation here: If you treat an MMO like a grind, it is a grind. Lose yourself in the adventure of it all. You're not killing 10 Defias Padfoots. You've been charged to infiltrate a known thieves stronghold and eliminate their numbers.
Me and my two friends played a successful party of three for a good 2 years by working together, having fun and taking great pleasure in the rich story that the Warcraft universe offers, both online and off. We were never optimized that well, we never had the best gear on offer. But we were a team and good camaraderie goes a long way to letting it be more than just a math exercise. It's a shame that people treat these games this way especially in a story rich, well established world that is Azeroth. Our original run through Stranglethorn Vale always remains in my mind as we came face to face with PVP for the first time, long long ago before the battlegrounds even existed. We stalked the mightiest creatures of the jungle, tangled with the local pirate cartel at the behest of the local goblin baron, took on a voodoo priest and his horde of zombified followers and watched each others backs as vicious human rogues and paladins hunted us. At one point we even raised an army to go and sack the Alliance outpost, with myself as commanding general. We did hit and run tactics, overpowering superior players with numbers and ambushes. While yes, at the end of the day, the outpost stood on, players revived and overall it didn't impact the world as it stood, it set the stage for future conflicts, earning us lifelong enemies in the game. Try actually playing with friends. You might enjoy yourself.

[SoD]

Make sure they know they're going to play DnD, not tabletop WoW.

Every now and again, throw them a curveball. Also, even though the sun may be darkest before the dawn, every sun must rise and fall.

[dariathalon]

My primary piece of advice is to encourage creativity. That an area in which many games just can't compete with D&D. Put a situation before them that can only be solved by some good old-fashioned thinking. Perhaps they don't have exactly the right tool for a job, maybe they can improvise one. Maybe they can con an NPC into giving them one... There are many possibilities.

[Quietus]

First, those monsters that DO give the PCs some loot... make sure that whatever you roll for them, if they CAN use it, they DO. I know from my Diablo 2 time that it was entirely possible to fight a monster whose only method of fighting was to charge into melee and hit you with its sword... but that same monster was the most reliable place to get the best bow in the game. Wait, what?

If that Goblin rolls a +1 spiked chain as loot.. it's a +1 morningstar, and he was *using* it. Maxing (or doubling, if you n ormally max) its hit points will give it a "I'm the boss" feel, particularly when you describe : "A cluster of goblins in ratty armor, with beaten-up morningstars, led by one in armor that looks.. almost clean. That apparent leader raises his weapon over his head - a mean-looking morningstar that gives off a deep red glow - as he shouts something in Goblin. At his orders, the rest attack!".

Also, subvert their expectations. You hang out with WoW players, I'm sure you know their in-jokes about the game world. If they joke about quest-givers having exclamation points, then make that a joke in the world too. Maybe a tavern that uses one as its call sign, for instance. I'm not well versed in WoW, but if these friends are really big WoW fans, they'll appreciate SUBTLE nods to the game inside your game world. The trick is to make the jokes subtle, not to club the players over the head with them.

[Umael]

Suggestion - Exploit the character backgrounds.

Instead of having the stories be static, set-pieces in an unchanging world, where the characters are interchangeable, make the stories be about THEM, about things happening to THEM, or things happening to people or things THEY care about. Going questing for a 50 wolf ears is just an empty quest - anyone can do it if they have the means. But finding the murderer of your sister is something deeply personal and can be rewarding for the game experience when the PC guts the sadist.

[Skorj]

1) Don't have everything drop loot- though frustrating, it adds to realism. (1a- If lesser monsters do drop loot, it's not worth anything.)
2) Run them through a non-combat scenario after they're done learning the rules.
3) There needs to be a real world going on around them that they can affect and interact with. (3a- death is actually a big deal)
4) Have an adventure where they actively have to find a site or encounter area, rather than just saying, "I go to the Castle Northunderbark."
5) TRAPS are a must.
6) Lifelike NPCs with real motivations (6a (villians)- Coherent storyline- "someone is out to do something, and you should care enough to stop it") (6b (merchants)- A merchant will feel insulted if someone tries to sell them sub-par loot that they obviously can't sell back)
7) "Usually evil" creatures have feelings, too.
8) Player Input

You've said 3 was something you're good at. That, more than anything else, separates tabletop from MMOs, even for people who hate roleplaying. The characters' actions should affect the world in real and lasting ways. The biggest problem with MMOs is that nothing you do ever matters to the world. Have them, throug some wild streak of luck, affect who becomes king or who wins some continent-wide war or somesuch very early on, and refer to it constantly in color text (it's not important that the prince know that the party accidentally saved his life before the coronation, though that makes a great plot hook for later, but the party will know). Later, as they become powerful enough to affect the course of world events on purpose, they'll see why MMOs pale in comparison, but hook 'em early.

(If I ever get a chance to write an MMO, guess how it will be different from the current generation. )

[RandomNPC]

Ill get behind the in jokes, the Inn with the quest giver call sign is awesome.

so my first gamers were used to videogames in general. they demanded that the bear they killed had to have loot on it, so i argued that they found a necklace tangled around its claw, and an stomach acid charred ring they got to sell it all for three gold and were happy. The trick, as pointed out above is not to let something have loot that it could have used and didn't. An armory having a weapon in it is ok, but if the party finds five fighters in it and they all fight unarmed because they "forgot" the weapon was there it's going to get questionable quick. If the party's used to it though, you can get away with it because its something they expect on some level.

start off with some simple skill checks and an easy fight, let them know it's going to get harder but you want to break them in. Have one of the opponents hide something small somewhere near camp, call for skill checks to spot it or search for it, let them see how it all works, not just hey we win, wheres the loot?

[Random832]

so my first gamers were used to videogames in general. they demanded that the bear they killed had to have loot on it

DM: It's a bear.
Players: But encounters are supposed to have ph4t l3wtz!
DM: Ok... you search around and you find... a dead bear. You can haul it back into town and sell it to be made into a rug and meat.

[Skorj]

This:

so my first gamers were used to videogames in general. they demanded that the bear they killed had to have loot on it

Plus this:

The trick, as pointed out above is not to let something have loot that it could have used and didn't.

Equals "You're attacked by a bear. It's wearing a suit of full plate armor. You're not sure why, and the bear seemed a bit confused about that himself."

[Vaynor]

1) Some of their earliest quests should involve hunting and killing a certain number of beasts to collect their tusks, hooves, tongues, asses, etc. Never give out the logical number of said items you would get from killing a certain beast. For example, you should be able to take only one hoof from every dead zebra.

Don't forget, some of the beasts shouldn't even have said item. Because, you know, hoofless zebra are quite common in WoW.